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Myth-Busting the Ostfront

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Jhaxavier

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 9, 2006
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#1
As we all know, there's a ton of things that people get wrong about the Ostfront all the time. NKVD gunning down retreaters (and being general assholes), Tiger > all, and dead-out charges were the order of the day in the Red Army; a few of the various myths that go about the Ostfront.

So, post a random ostfront myth here and bust it with history! :cool:

I need the info for my comic anyway; I must get the truth to the masses! :D
 
#7
Always drunk Russians.

You can check www.iremember.ru for proof: a lot (not all) of veterans tell that those 100gr of vodka (btw, I can't be drunk because of such portion, can you?) that they had to drink according to some order, a lot of times just didn't make it to the front: some officer miles from the front could steal it and have a party together with his-alikes, while those soldiers were fighting.
 
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#8
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#9
49kd0.jpg
 
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#12
Hicks said:
So you are saying that SS units were not considered as 'elite' in the militairy context?
Now that's a myth...
Click to expand...
Is this a SS-fanboi speaking? In the early years the tactics sucked soo hard that they used the Wehrmacht tactics after the first years. Next to that, you can count the elite divisions with one hand. Especially most of the Russian and Balkan divisions.
It was like the Wehrmacht, you had some elite divisions, but most were just like or even worse than WH divisions.
 
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#14
Well I know the OP just wanted to start a German bashing thread, but since this is mythbusting, Ill present some evidence.

First myth = tiger>all

Please go to this link: http://www.alanhamby.com/losses.html

There was almost a 6 to 1 ratio for the tigers. Only 3 to 1 for all AFV's total. Factoring in the fear factor it provided along with its reputation, and the confidence it gave its crewman, I think its safe to say that the Tiger has earned its repuation.

MYTH CONFIRMED. No one wanted to face a Tiger, and the German crews loved them.



Second Myth = NKVD and how nice they were

Ah the NKVD... Im not even going to explain this one. Heres some links for you to read about the NKVD aka the Soviet SS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD (Note the part about "stopping deserters")
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSnkvd.htm

Myth busted. These guys were just as bad as they said they were, they carried out the purges and deportations just like the SS carried out the holocaust. I dont like to compare the two but the death tolls are both staggering.

And it is well documented that with the inexepienced commanders left over after the purges that human wave tactics were used in earnest until Stalin started trusting his more talented commanders more. How else can you explain the losses?

For the record I have great respect for the both the Germans and the Russians in regards to the East Front... thats where WW2 was fought and won. I dont buy into alot of the **** said about the Soviets and Im sick of them being ignored by the West, but they werent supermen, just like the Germans werent supermen either.
 
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#15
Rrralphster said:
It was the selection process that made them elite.
Click to expand...

indeed, "Elite" for the nazi because "racially" pure.

An other myth :
"Germans" of ww2 are not germans today. *correction, i had forgot the "not" , but people certainly understood what i thought *
In fact "3rd reich army" or wehrmacht is not entirely german.
F-E , the best division of gebirgsjager considered as elite units was massively Austrian.
Also the people from other country annexed was integrated into the wehrmacht (french, polish, etc ...).


Also the ussr soldiers was "Soviet", russian was part of this army.



MistaCreepy said:
First myth = tiger>all
Click to expand...

Tiger was useless for offensive, but was a good tank for defense.
Does it mean it is superior, i don't think, the myth is born from the defensive behaviour of the tiger.
 
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#16
Seth_Soldier said:
indeed, "Elite" for the nazi because "racially" pure.

An other myth :
"Germans" of ww2 are germans today.
In fact "3rd reich army" or wehrmacht is not entirely german.
F-E , the best division of gebirgsjager considered as elite units was massively Austrian.
Also the people from other country annexed was integrated into the wehrmacht (french, polish, etc ...).


Also the ussr soldiers was "Soviet", russian was part of this army.
Click to expand...

Hitler was Austrian too, whats your point? Theyre so similar that throughout history when it was convienent, the Austrians suddenly called themselves German, when the world hated the Germans again, they became Austrian again.


"Germans" of ww2 are germans today.
Click to expand...

What?

"Elite" for the nazi because "racially" pure.
Click to expand...

VERY early on this was the case, but duirng the east front (which this thread concerns) some of the most elite units werent German. Himmler himself said of the Finnish SS:

"Where a Finnish SS-man stood, enemy was always defeated."

The Waffen SS during the east front became a international orginization with soldiers and divisions from all over the world. Arabs,Indians,belgians,frenchmen,russians,ukrainians, belorussians,latvians,estonians,finnish,norweigian,dutch, italian, croatian, danish, swedish, bulgarian, romanian... a coalition of the willing you could say ;)
 
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#17
MistaCreepy said:
Hitler was Austrian too, whats your point? Theyre so similar that throughout history when it was convienent, the Austrians suddenly called themselves German, when the world hated the Germans again, they became Austrian again
Click to expand...

From history, austrian are austrian. Calling them german for politic reason for a while doesn't mean they were german

MistaCreepy said:
VERY early on this was the case, but duirng the east front (which this thread concerns) some of the most elite units werent German. Himmler himself said of the Finnish SS:

"Where a Finnish SS-man stood, enemy was always defeated."

The Waffen SS during the east front became a international orginization with soldiers and divisions from all over the world. Arabs,Indians,belgians,frenchmen,russians,ukrainians, belorussians,latvians,estonians,finnish,norweigian,dutch, italian, croatian, danish, swedish, bulgarian, romanian... a coalition of the willing you could say ;)
Click to expand...

The finnish (and other nation people or considered german) was considered as "racially" pure and this "rules" weren't break until the w-ss need to refilled/expand massively .
The 1943 opening is not a coalition , but just a call for fresh meal when you loose a war and need new ressources.

Hardened division won some title but it doesn't make them elite units.
 
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#19
Seth_Soldier said:
From history, austrian are austrian. Calling them german for politic reason for a while doesn't mean they were german
Click to expand...

Heres a quote from an article of about Austrians:

"Today there are approximately 8 million ethnic Austrians world wide, even though ethnic identification of who is Austrian is almost impossible, as it is mainly a question of national identity and self-definition."

Basically this means that when its hip to be German, poof! theyre Germans. But When it isnt:

"German-speaking Austrians were historically regarded as Germans, but after the events of World War 2 and Nazism, this has become out-of-fashion and is generally considered offensive."

What a great way to duck responisibility.

Seth_Soldier said:
Hardened division won some title but it doesn't make them elite units.
Click to expand...

Well then what is your definition of an elite unit?
 
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#20
SheepDip said:
Myth - The Germans usually faught with lower numbers.

Fact - At the point of an assault the Germans largely had greater numbers. One of, if not THE main factor in the German assault strategy.
Click to expand...

Actually that fact is true, the war in the East was 4 years long and the Germans only had numerical superiority in the first 6-8 months of it (Operation Barbarossa).
 
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