Level Design Questions about Vehicles

[Divinehammer]

It looks like there are two locations for vehicles in the actors menu. one under Pawn and one under Svehicle which one should I be using? the ones under pawn seem to have alot more properties. Also it seems as though I can set the exit positions of Half T so that everyone exits the back like they would IRL some would jump sides i guess. Does anyone have those settings or know more about this. I am also looking for a way to lock like a tank would that be ignore encroachers? Thanks .

Additionally I was looking and on Tanks there is a setting for Vehicle Team does this mean that a mapper could set this to 2 and require a teamtanking situation to move the tank?

 

[Reservoir Dog]

Classes under SVehicleFactories are the only way to spawn a vehicle on a map. I think classes under pawn are the coding of the vehicles themselves. More of modder's tools than mapper's.

 

[worluk]

VFactories are the things that you place and which spawn the tank in intervals, keep track how many, etc.
Pawns are what actually moves around the battlefield, like your player avatar is a pawn, the vehicle is a pawn.
You cant place them as mapper or change variables for them imo.

The team value you are refering to is the Team Index (Allied, Axis).

 

[Slyk]

It should certainly be possible to force two or more players before a vehicle would move, but that would require either a mutator or a new vehicle class extension. Teufelhund and I have recently discussed this option and some others that could be effected through code on upcoming vehicles. A variable to set the minimum number of users/players to activate an engine would be a great stock value, especially if it could be coded to scale according to player counts like we can now do in the level editor.

 

[Divinehammer]

precisely in my instance it would force HT drivers to wait for more riders before driving off

 

[Reservoir Dog]

What if players jump out of a vehicle before you get to where your going? Say your in a tank with another player and get a minor hit. Your partner bails on foot and your in a tank that can't move (sitting duck).

Slyke, you said a minimum number to start the engine. Does that mean if players bail the vehicle is still running? I have seen HTs drive around and drop players off in different spots so it would be nice if the lone driver could go back to spawn and pick others up. I think its a great idea if it was set up that way and scalable to player count.

 

[Slyk]

If it could be done, it would be set initially to allow the vehicle to move. Just like the "waiting for additional players" or whatever you see now. That locks the vehicle down based on time and/or vicinity of players, we would try to do something based on a head count. Once the vehicle is moving, the check would not run again.

One of the most unappreciated jobs and sometimes the most vital is the taxi driver. Seriously. On 'TractorWorks', for example... most of the wins I see for the Germans, you have one or two guys who know the map and situation and they spend the entire round ferrying infantry up to the hot spots, doing nothing but driving in big circles. These guys get the special recoginition medal from me.

 

[Slyk]

Teufel and I discussed this today and it is entirely possible either in the vehicle code or as a mutator. So it is possible that we will institute this in every vehicle we do, retrofitting the BT7 as well. We could force a minimum of two players for tanks and three or four for transports. We should be able to configure it to use scalable player numbers. Example: 1-16 allow single users; 17-24 two users; 25+ three or more users for transports etc. The scale is arguable, of course, but could improve teamplay. If this serves to frustrate and annoy all those "get out of my tank or I will just sit here and spin in circles for the map duration" and solo-transport theives, all the better. If Teufel develops it as a mutator, it would give admins a great tool to experiment with on their servers and depending on your perspective, improve or ruin your gameplay experience. It will all depend on your outlook but on some maps, it would go a long way to improving things.

 

[Reservoir Dog]

Just my humble opinion, but I wouldn't make it a mutator unless it could be configurable for each map on a server rotation. I would prefer to see it as a boolean so mappers could configure it to each map. An example would be a CA map that has 2 tanks and 4 tank roles. You wouldn't want players jumping in and taking off while their follow tankers are just sitting there at spawn. But on a big tank map, where there are plenty of tanks for everyone, there is a lesser need for it. I think the same goes for transports, where there are some maps that have plenty and some where there are a few. It would be hard to try to match all maps with the same settings. If the mapper or the admin could set them it would compliment a map. Just my two cents worth.......

 

[Slyk]

Yep...if it was done via code, then it would be in the vehicle factory settings so the mapper could configure it, much like the RO Role info now.
Edit: This *could* be hard-coded, or set as a variable. Depending on the vehicle or just as a general guide line across the board. Either way would have it's value depending on how you look at it. Consistancy from vehicle to vehicle would be better for the users but then per map is an option for diligent mappers.

 

[UncleDrax]

I think an easier(?) thing to do would prevent players from switching positions?

that is.. first person in the tank gets to be the driver.. 2nd the cmdr, 3rd (where applicable), the hull MGer.

if the driver jumps out, and jumps back in, it'll auto pop the Driver position.

That way some can run off by themselves in a tank, but they will essentially never be able to gun it...unless they jump out, and someone else jumps into the drivers seat.


.. upon futher thought.. just make it a seperate vehicle factory.. else you have to worry about setting up the factory to spawn one type of tank pawn or the other.. easier to just make a ROPantherTankFactory that spawns PantherTank_NoPositionChange pawns.

 

[Slyk]

The code already checks driver position first, then gunner, then MG and drops you in the next open slot. I suppose you could turn off change of position. The variable though would allow tanks to be functional in all levels of populated maps. Some logic could also look at time on the clock etc and auto-disable if less than X minutes or something. All valuable discussion and something to think about.

 

[JAKL]

I think the two player for tank and three for transport is good but I don't like the idea about not being able to switch positions. Especially when there are two people in a tank the driver often will switch to MG when stopped. Just making it so you can't take off without two in a tank depending on server load would be a cool feature to have. The transports more than anything would benefit the most. Tanks would just be a side bonus or something to play with.

 

[Slyk]

I am sure some guys won't like the idea, but then again if this were available to mappers, it should be their choice. Granted, the tank config is the most controversial. So be it. But the reality is that 50 player tank maps can't really deal with fifty players and fifty tanks running around. It is just to much technical load. You could at least make it an option for mappers on this scale to say that they will add 12 tanks a side, and force two players per tank, eliminating guys standing around for ages.

Transports would be decent set at 3 or 4 riders, or maybe X percent, depends on the code options/efficiency. And if it can be scaled per number of players, where is the harm?? We will continue to discuss it. Lots of good input so far.

 

[Reservoir Dog]

As I was discussing this topic on another forum, I realized there could be another use for this if it was a mutator. One of the classic maps that I like is Barashka. I would love to see a 50 player version of this up and running for all to enjoy. Why create another "unofficial" version of this if a mutator could make it possible? There are plenty of player spawns but not enough tanks and transports for the increase of players. Since reinforcement numbers scale to more players, that's not a problem either. With a mutator like this, an admin could set a minimum of players for the transports and tanks and problem is solved. It would be really nice if you could set the configurable number per tank type (say have 2 players minimum in a larger tank, like a Tiger, and one in a Panther for example, or however the admin wants it). The mut might also make a general announcement at the beginning and periodically (configurable) thru the level what the settings are. Something like "All PIVs and T34s require 2 tank crew to operate. Transports require 3 infantry." Players would know what to expect and you wouldn't have to rely on a constant for all maps. I know there are a few other things that would be nice to facilitate 50 players like more optimizing and more artillery, etc, but the major issue of some of the classic maps being "50 playable" would be solved. At least until the official 50 map comes out. And it would help some of the 50s that are out there by ending the half-track/unicarrier lone rangers out there. The more configurable it is, the more likely server admins will use it to compliment their map rotation and size of server. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Slyk]

RD, I agree a great deal. It should be a mapper option, if they want to limit uses, or encourage teamwork, all the better. People with too little attention span and selfish intent can find other maps/servers/games etc.

I would think this could be a great option of big tank maps as well, especially ones that feature limited numbers of Tiger/Panthers/IS. It might be good to force two or more to the big tanks and allow solos for the smaller support tanks, as one example. Mappers could really craft more dynamic content and scenarios.

There are obviously going to be half-thought arguments that everyone should just have their own personal tank or transport but that is ridiculous beyond comprehension. Ignoring the obvious pitfalls, technically, it would never work on any map or server. Certainly some maps wouldn't need such aids, but in some cases, it would really help the overall scheme.

First off, someone has to code it up. Teufel and I have talked about it. We have other priorities right now but if we could at least get a limited beta file together, I would implement it in 'Elnya'.

Great input so far guys.

 

[Divinehammer]

I have not looked at the code but seems that for the code where someone enters the drivers seat then test number of occupants and see if it matches your set number if yes turn the engine over. I guess you would have to put this test in though so it covered every position in the vehicle and run evertime someone gets in. Two riders in a track shouldnt turn over the engine.

 

[Slyk]

Actually, you are mostly right. You would code it so that it would do a headcount in the vehicle. Until X is reached, the engine would not start. It would be a mutation of the current code that holds you if team members are nearby. As far as transports, to sum up earlier stuff:
1- scaled required numbers based on infantry team members in the game.
2- once the X number is reached of riders, the engine starts and the vehicle moves.
3- vehicle would not stop if someone jumps out, the check is only to start moving, not keep moving.
4- if the round time is less than Y, then the code would not check for rider counts.
5- as much as possible should be mapper controlled. They should make things are strict or loose as they wish. It's their map.

Tanks:
- scaled according to number of tankers in game.
- see above, 2-5

Lots of options are possible. It would be a matter of having the time to implement it, test it, etc. There are very few occassions where solo tanking or vehicle use is an advantage. Granted, having a guy you trust in the vehicle with you is a big help and VoIP just does not work well enough sometimes, at least with the key commands. Usually there is a delay. But overall, it should improve the game play on most maps. If people don't like the idea, they have a wealth of infantry roles to choose from. I just see the argument for solo tanking to be stronger than that for team tanking. It's all personal preference.

 

[Divinehammer]

Why is it that you can place the vehicle pawns in the map? Can you place one changes its propertys and place a matching factory that will use the newly placed and configured pawns settings? If you get something for this on the transports please let me know I need it for Dubrava which I am playtesting tonight. Runaway tracks could be a problem in my map but remains to be seen.