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Tactics New Strelok seeking advice on city combat.

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Lateralus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 23, 2007
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#1
Hello people.

Im a new player and after beeing in a couple of encounters and skimming through some threads here i feel im at loss. I could use some pointers on how to act to be as big of an asset as i can to the team.

I usually play city maps, no tanks, just infantry wreaking havoc. Favorite map: Danzig. I like the intensity and the fact that a kraut can come around a corner at any time leaving just a couple of yards of air between me and my motherlands enemies.

I usually play as a Strelok, i feel my lack in skills regarding quick reaction would make a waste out of the sniper or a SMG role. Obviously, the same lack in skills, make me an easy picking if i find myself just in front of the enemy, shooting from the hip or stabbing someone to death isn't something i succeed in often. So i have taken the role of medium range suppressive support for those more suitable to take the krauts head on. I take position in windows or behind cover slightly behind where the actual fighting is taking place (usually im at the, i guess, obvious positions marked at http://tod.mine.nu/salival/SupportingPositions.png). I try to take out the krauts as they reinforce their front, suppress their MG/sniper, ressuply our MG etc. I spend most of my time trying to pick them out at a range, with variance in success (did i mention i lack skills?).

This is how my, ever so unevolved maybe, tactical mind reasons. The snipers main goal is to take out the enemies sniper/commander/MG, the MG:s main goal is to suppress the enemy at bottlenecks, the SMG:s are suitable for clearing buildings and fighting close to the enemy and the riflemen should try to keep their distance, supporting their SMG:s as they advance. Granted, a rifleman can go into a capzone and help out, but that might not work out well if the capzone itself is an environment where he is at a disadvantage (the Command Center in Danzig as an example).

Then i go to read these boards. Most of the posts talk about bayonets, flooding the capzones and, i was truly confused first time, hipshooting. I haven't read the whole board of course, maybe i missed the posts that reason in the same way as i do, or maybe not? Is it all about making a wall of flesh inside the capzones? Is a rifleman worth more supporting the soldiers inside the capzone and hopefully staying alive or is he worth more in the capzone even if it usually means certain death in case he finds himself mano a mano with an enemy at shorter range?

Maybe this is a non-issue. Maybe its just me that is the problem, i do realise that in some aspects i suck badly. I am not as fast on the mouse as i was back in the days when i played Quake1 and frankly, i dont think the rifleman in RO is suited for that type of playing. So what do you think? Am i right to stay back trying to pick out enemies at medium range or should i simply give up the game since im worthless to the team unless i can handle charging in and hipshooting people inside the capzone?

Thanks in advance, Jan "Lateralus" Svenungson

Edit: Removed picture cause it was about 1600 pixels wide, linked it.
SupportingPositions.bmp

SupportingPositions.jpg
 
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#2
Well, it seems to me that you are doing just about what you should do with the role you have chosen and the skill level you say you are at. I do agree with your overall assesment of the classes and their roles involved.

Of course, there will be times that you must deviate from those roles. Take the role of rifleman. There may be times you will need to rush a building, either to cap it or save it from being capped by the enemy. Of course, you are probably at a disadvantage when facing someone wielding an smg, but with practice, that disadvantage will lessen or disappear altogether.

Some methods I use when I need to close in as a rifleman:
- When you come to a corner, use iron sights and lean around the corner. You will present a smaller target to someone with a less accurate smg.
- If you can, go to iron sights and crouch if you encounter someone in a hall at a medium distance. Their first shot may go over your head.
- Hipshoot if you have to at close range. Sometimes it just comes down to who gets the first shot in will survive.
- When in a building, try to stay near furniture or corners, as you will have a chance for quick cover if fired upon, not to mention it could block a grenade blast and save your skin.

Just play the supporting role you are comfortable with and with practice, you will find yourself venturing into more dangerous areas for a rifleman when your reactions get better, or just to do something different and new.
 
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#3
Danzig, despite being one of the relatively few infantry only maps, isn't that well suited to riflemen, there are places where riflemen can provide a lot of medium range support, especially around the Langermarkt area, but the smallness of the map and the amount of buildings and hallways mean that SMGers will usually come of better if a firefight ensues.

And again, the smallness of the Danzig means that rushing the capzones with a lot of men can sometimes be the best tactic... That's why I don't really like Danzig.

I suggest maybe trying Stalingrad Kessel or some other infantry maps because, despite how much you like Danzig, it's probably the tightest map in the game and will not offer you a lot in the medium range 'department'.
 
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#4
Thanks for the input.

I will try to be more flexible, i am going to focus on what i am good at, but when it is needed i will do what i have to do, even if it might put me in much rougher situations. With your tips, and training, i might even learn to become pretty decent in CQC with my precious Mosin Nagant.

And about maps, i know i need to do some others as well. It's just that Danzig at it's best is such an adrenaline-rush since it is non-stop action more or less from the start. Also, i have been busy recording some material for a movie and i wanted it to be consistent from one map. I will check out Stalingrad Kessel and other infantry-maps now that the movie is done though.

Once again, thanks alot. Its very appreciated.

Jan "Lateralus" Svenungson
 
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#6
I like your strategy. Unfortunately with my mindset in Danzig, I tend to rush as a strelok only to be killed very quickly (and too often for that matter) and am teaching myself to play more conservatively in that role. However, because of my previous techniques, I have learned a few tactics for close range battle that work quite well in the Command Centre.

First off, try to make yourself as small a target as possible, while keeping your ironsights up if you can. This prevents you from having to resort to hip shooting with your rifle, and means a much higher chance of placing an accurate shot. It also reduces your chances of being hit by someone spraying bullets from an SMG.

Second, try not to find yourself alone when you will there is a high chance for a close range encounter. Either find several other riflemen or at least one other sub-machinegunner. This increases your chances of being the "chosen" target, and also increases your chances of taking on an enemy at close range as there is a far greater chance of hitting him.

Lastly, grenades, believe it or not, can be very usefull at close range. As you are probably familiar with, there is a good deal of "nade spamming" that goes on in Danzig, and surprisingly enough, a good solution I sometimes find is to fight fire with fire. If you can learn to accurately toss a grenade, situations that would normally be suicidal for a strelok can be turned around, whether or not this means actually killing an enemy or just making him run so you can find cover for yourself.

I use these as my primary strategy when in Danzig all the time (and when close engagements occur in other maps) and with the amount that I have played it, it really does pay off. Remember that nothing will make you better than constant practice. Over time you will develop your own strategies that suit the way you like to play the game.
 
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#7
Some things that can help you,

When walking to some position you want to be, try to stab and hipshoot mapgeometry. It will teach you the range of your bayonet, and will learn you how to hipshoot. Just pick a target and try to hit it. Try to bayonet targets where 1cm further you'd be out of bayo range.

There is a system to make hipshooting harder basically making your weapon move a bit together with moving the screen. There is an upper left and upper right limit though. So try to get to learn using those limits because your weapon will shoot at thesame place everytime.

Don't always take the safe way when you're trying to improve, try to notice where the shot lands and try to learn how to aim for every method.
Those spots you showed are good, if they work just continue to use them :), although try finding lots of spots inside the capzones aswell. To get the best of both worlds the langermarkt is quite a big area.
 
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#8
Hi Lateralus, welcome to RO.

I'm a dedicated rifleman myself (German, Russian, it doesn't matter, but the MN 91/30 is my favorite). Someday I may even be good at it.:D

It sounds like you're going about things the right way. I'm usually a little closer to the action than the points marked on the map but they're not bad. You're right that riflemen have a hard time in close quarters combat. We just can't throw lead all over the place like MGs and SMGs. Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet, so to speak, and move into dangerous areas to support others or just to keep live bodies in a cap zone.

The others here have given some good advice. You'll do all right.
For some good rifle maps try Konigsplatz, Berezina, Hedgehog, Basovka, Leningrad, Zhitomir, and others. My opinion is that Danzig is a good map but difficult for riflemen to fit into well. Good luck, hope to see you around.
 
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#9
My 2 cents: A rifleman in the city should generally not charge but make his way carefully.

Support fire is definitely useful but not if you don't have plentiful targets - if that's the case, you move to a forward support position and try to hold it.

The first thing an SMG does in urban combat when he encounters enemies at mid-range is to hipshoot for suppression and charge them to close the distance and wipe them up with a high ROF. Sometimes it works, sometimes you get blasted.

But a rifleman usually goes to cover first (maybe try one suicidal shot first) and then picks off the enemy or nades him. Let's face it, you won't be suppressing anyone as a rifleman, you have to shoot them to move up.

And sprint across open areas of course. Cover to cover, peek, fire, search and advance to next cover.

If you find yourself face-to-face with an enemy, don't bother trying to hip-shoot him... forget about bullets entirely and start stabbing! You'll probably die (what were your chances anyway) but not always... sometimes you prevail and bayonet the enemy in an undeniably glorious fashion. If he's a rifleman like you, you stand a really good chance of flustering him and making him miss his one shot before you are in stabbing range. As a rifleman at point blank range, I honestly think your best chance to live is to go for the bayonet.
 
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#10
Do as Zets said and practise hipshootin and stabbin on mapgeometry.....
If you move the gun a little to one side just before you shoot, it becomes steady and accurate hipshots are very possible.....

Dont listen to Jank. (no offence, but if you dont hipshoot, I'll kill you 90 % of the time inside command centre.)

Practise some hip shootin and play Danzig very aggresive. Charge like a mad-man, hipshootin, stabbin and nading all over the place.... (good trainin);)
 
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#12
I, also, play rifleman about 99% of the time, so I'll provide my thoughts on playing that role on Danzig.

First, I should let you know up front that I don't particularly like Danzig all that much. Part of it is that it's just a little TOO much CQB and, as a result, I feel it tends to promote the kind of rambo tactics we all dislike. I have a special disdain for semi-automatic rifle users on this map. I can't tell you the number of times I've had one of these spray an entire clip all around me while firing from the hip. But that's another story.

A rifleman's job on an urban map is not to get into CQB. Instead, your job is to provide covering fire and, hopefully, prevent the enemy from getting to the objectives.

Anyway, without further ado, here is my game plan for playing Danzig as a soviet rifleman.

1. First, never take the sniper. There just aren't enough long sight lines to warrant it and the lack of peripheral vision will just get you killed more often.
2. My first movement is usually to the building overlooking the river to do some sniping. I'll usually lob my grenades out onto the street leading to the first objectives to catch any over eager Germans. Watch for some of the smarter Germans to do the same thing back.
3. When sniping from this building, NEVER stand in a window. I feel I really shouldn't have to say this, but I've seen plenty of soviet snipers who seem to feel that a scope is also some form of magic shield. They all get dead fast.
Instead, stand in complete cover and snipe left and right or lean left/right quickly. You can cover both ends of the street that way, plus the underground stair exits while being pretty much invulnerable to return fire.
It's worth checking the building across the street every once and a while for Germans but usually they make their presence know pretty quickly by killing your buddies who stand out in plain sight in a window.
4. Once the first two objectives are capped, you have two choices: left or right. The CQB nature of the HQ area means you shouldn't really go in there, but you can make a difference by covering the left street and preventing Germans from easily getting to the objective.
Avoid the center street as there's just too many ways for Germans to come up and shoot you in the back.
The right route has a lot more options for a rifleman. First, try to get to the building that covers the soviet side of the square and do some more sniping. Germans know how valuable this spot is for the soviets so you have to be on your toes for them. Obviously the right hand windows are vulnerable to fire from across the square. Left is better. You can help clear out the ruined buildings that way and take under fire any German who is trying to move up the right side of the square.
5. If there are many of you, move up to the square edge. Occupy the ruined building and again cover the square. The minute it seems that you have enough people to cap, move into the cap zone.

That's pretty much it. I can spend most of a round doing that. If your shooting is on that day you can really ruin the Germans fun at the beginning of the map and make a big difference during the fight for the square. Forget about the HQ, really. Leave it to the assault guys.

By sitting back and sniping at the beginning of the round I pretty much guarantee I'll never have a top score on this map, but that's a given if you don't have a smg anyway. Score whores will be drawn to the HQ for it's fast kills and frequent recapping.

Playing with a bolt action rifle is a challenge on urban maps, but it can be a lot of fun as well.
 
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#14
I would add that a couple of sharpshooters across the river is enough. You should help taking the first two cap zones. It is VERY easy if many people run through the boat and stay at the embankment, without actualy fighting, just tossing granades across the wall. After capturing the two zones, go right, as already told to you.
I think you should also practice hip shooting with a SMG, by loading Baksan Valley in the training mode (off-line). MP40 is my favorite gun :)
 
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#16
A few tips, although it sounds like you have the right idea.

1.) Keep in mind that the goal of the game is to capture territory, NOT to kill the enemy. Killing the enemy is a means to an end. You get one point for a kill and ten points for a capture. You tell me which one the game considers more valuable. ;) Towards that end, sometimes you just have to be there, in the cap zone, moving the bar along. You don't need to be killing people. Or you just need to be there, keeping the bar from moving.

2.) Hip shooting is a wee bit easier with a carbine, I find. The M44 is ideally suited to urban environments because it moves a touch faster than the 91/30, but also has a bayonet. I'll still take the M38 over the 91/30 in an urban setting like Danzig, though, and simply try to hipshoot where necessary. The M38 is still accurate out to the ranges you're shooting at on the map, too, so don't worry about that.

3.) Let the SMGers go first to clear the way, but don't be afraid to come in close behind them (don't cluster too closely though, or you could all get naded). You don't HAVE to hang back, and in fact, you'll help your team more by advancing. Advance wisely, of course, but advance nonetheless.


That's it. It sounds like you have a good grasp of overall tactics, so the real key for you will just be getting comfortable with the interface. Once you do, you'll be in good shape and a great team player. :)
 
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#17
I will agree with Dingbat on all of his points and add the following:

CQC is possible with the bolt action rifle. Corners and doorways are you friends. Sprint from corner to corner (spend as little time as possible in the middle of corridors) and then bring up iron sights while leaning. In this configuration you have the advantage over the SMG-whore as you have a much more powerful one shot kill weapon. RO has no penetration modeling, so cover is life, more so than it really should be (though SMG rounds would have poor penetration irl anyways).
 
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#19
Rifleman on Danzig = Play it smart

Take your time advanced slowly, take advantage of cover, and hide around corners waiting for germans to run into bayo.

Or just run like a mad man with your bayo cocked back

either tactic works just as well.

Main thing is practice practice practice

and do a couple games where you do nothing but hipshoot you'll get real good at it =)
 
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