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Level Design RO-DG-Petros pre-beta thread

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#41
Long shots should be possible, you can see by eye from the top of the radio tower mountain to the area below.

This map isn't a recreation of a specific battle, personally I would like to have real terrain data along with multiple reference photos to do that, but it does have design style based on a few old photos of that period.
Perhaps with map #2... ;)
I'll try to locate real DEM terrain data from that area and upsample it for my next map.
Hopefully some gamers will still find this map fun to play and interesting to look at.
 
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#43
Shurek said:
:)Where can a civilian like me obtain DEM datasets of say, oh, parts of Russia?
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Most DEM datasets are government supplied and are therefore free for order or download.
The issues however, are as I mentioned in post #35 of this thread:

1. The lack of a standard file format.

- You can download datasets from sites that are from the SRTM (Shuttle Radar Topography Mission) or other Geo facilities in various countries, but you won't have any method to convert these oddball files to UnrealEd's G16.
I have yet to add these formats to my HMES software (which is why I am not using a DEM on this first map), but that software is also only available to Epic/UE Licensees/Game Studios.

2. The fact that the majority of data is commonly in 1 arcsecond or 3 arcsecond resolution.

- The current datasets won't work well with UnrealEd as you should have better than 1/3 arcsecond (10 meter), and preferably 1/6 arcsecond (5 meter) if you are attempting to use the data to provide a realistic gameplay scenario.
Without special software to provide fractal interpolation, the dataset will be somewhere between only 5% and 10% of what you will actually need for terrain sample points (10m is 1:4, 30m is 1:6, 90m is 1:18 of what you require as 5m data). So using the current data is not going to look very good "up close", it is fine for high-altitude flybys like NASA or JPL use, but terrible for on the ground.
This again is something that I have not completed on HMES yet.
 
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#45
DGUnreal said:
The map is sort-of based on some pics I saw of the Petros mountains (Carpathian/Ukraine). Here is a cool pic from adventurecarpathians.com.
The village located there that I saw wouldn't have been an exciting battle area, so I've taken a bit of artistic license in layout, and added things like the radio tower, train, etc. to my map.

Sorry, I'm not a history buff, so I don't know if/when any battles occured in those mountains.
Click to expand...

DGUnreal;

I have just finished up doing the history for Reservoir Dog on his new map "Valley of Death" which was a major armor engagement in fall of 1944 in the Carptho-Dukla Camapign that took place in the Kaspirova Brook Valley just south of The Dukla Pass in Slovakia in the shadows of the Carpathian mountains. Let me tell you that the Carpathian passes were very strategic and heavily fought for by the Soviets and the Germans during WWII. I have a lot of research material perhaps I could be of some assistance if you are willing to be a little flexible on the exact location of the setting for your new map? Let me know if I can be of any assistance to you? If you can try and check out Reservoir Dogs map, while it is still Beta, I think he really did a Great job!
 
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#48
DGUnreal said:
..I use custom software I wrote to extract and create my xProcMesh water for me, so it doesn't require too much work on my part...
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I fooled around with the Xproc Mesh a long time ago. I did work well, but only with the settings I copied out of a UT2004 level.

The one I tried working on...didn't :O

I'm very curious about that custom program you're using.

On another note, that spiffy looking heightmap program on your website, does it also export to obj? And does it edit the terrain the same way like in UnrealEd? Because I need to make terrain in XSI and UnrealEd makes it so easy. XSI on the other hand....

...Almost all of my terrain texture layers are algorithmically generated along with the heightmap, so I don't have to paint most of the layers...

This sounds sexy...but what does it mean? You don't use the Unreal terrain editor, just for deco and roads?

Greenhell
 
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#49
DGUnreal said:
Sure, I don't mind any input as to location, layout, armaments and reference photos etc. PM me if you prefer.
Click to expand...

One Shot was great to work with. He did some great research, created the extensive history as part of the team selection page on the VOD map, found lots of photos for reference, verified facts and make lots of suggestions which helped form the map.
 
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#50
Greenhell said:
I fooled around with the Xproc Mesh a long time ago.

I'm very curious about that custom program you're using.

On another note, that spiffy looking heightmap program on your website, does it also export to obj? And does it edit the terrain the same way like in UnrealEd?

This sounds sexy...but what does it mean? You don't use the Unreal terrain editor, just for deco and roads?
Click to expand...

The xProcMesh works great. See my tutorial for info on using it for a myriad of custom map assets. This is the only comprehensive tutorial I know of for the xProcMesh on the entire Internet. I'll be releasing an RO specific version of my xProcMesh Banners and such for the community when I am done Petros.

The custom software I use to extract my xProcMesh water table for my maps is of course my HMCS or HMES applications.
I extract the water table from the heightmap or alphamap file. It takes usually about five minutes to do it.
HMES will eventually have the ability to export an optimized water mesh by determining the required mesh triangles from a specified plane and where it intersects the heightmap, eliminating my current need of extracting and removing that one step in the current process.

Both HMCS and HMES export to .obj (and other 3D formats like .stl, etc.). HMES which is still under development will export to a pile of additional 3D formats including .3ds, .ase, .t3d, etc.
HMES is a full editor/creator so it allows creation and modifying. Think UnrealEd+3DSMax+<your favorite terrain program power*1000>. It is only available to Epic, UE Licensees and game studios.

"Algorithmically generated" means that I create all of the texture Layers externally so I don't have to spend the time painting everything onto the terrain. This can cut days off of my map development time. The only areas that I still must hand-edit are roads, etc., but I am eventually incorporating that feature into HMES so I no longer have to do that either.
I developed and refined the terrain procedure that I use over the past few years, sorry, I do this for a living as a level designer so I won't be writing any tutorials on how I do it. :)
As you mentioned, I currently only use UnrealEd's Terrain Edit for painting roads and adding deco, and any minor adjustments to the terrain and layers while I am working on the map. Technically I could also do most of the deco layer density textures externally.


Re: Petros
Latest alpha screenshots of the one area I have about half completed.
The proxy building will be replaced by a damaged train station staticmesh.
Unfortunately the screenshots don't tell much, without being inside of the map you really miss a lot of the detail. The red flag on the dock pole is a custom vertex-animated mesh pennant.

 
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#51
...on all said above, I say wow!

I'll look at the tutorial immediatly. The only other tut's I found was on udn (not very large) and a german tutorial, but that didn't cover what I was looking for.

Thanks for taking the time to reply with such an indepth answer.


Also, if you need a beta-tester for HMCS or HMES, I'd be happy to help :)

Thanks again,

Greenhell
 
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#52
Greenhell said:
The only other tut's I found was on udn (not very large) and a german tutorial, but that didn't cover what I was looking for.

Also, if you need a beta-tester for HMCS or HMES, I'd be happy to help :)
Click to expand...

I didn't know that UDN had anything on the xProcMesh actor.
I also looked in the secure licensee areas and had no luck.
What page was it on?
There is minimal info on UnrealWiki on it though.

I found a german page as well last year, but it had relatively little information on it.
I plan on expanding my xProcMesh page with additional information, I just haven't had any spare time to do that... :)

Sorry, I already have Epic and a number of the top Unreal Engine level designers on my beta list, so I am not currently looking for any other testers. :(
 
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#53
DGUnreal said:
...I didn't know that UDN had anything on the xProcMesh actor...
Click to expand...

You're right, I couldn't find it anymore either...hmm, I could have sworn to have found some reference there, though it was almost 3 years ago. I discovered the existence of the Xproc Mesh in that UT2004 cave level which came with the game. (made by what has to be a dutch guy, looking at his custom made texture names). Probably my old brain playing tricks on me, hehe...

Good to hear you're expanding the tutorial page. The more info, the better...

And about playtesting HMES, well like you stated, at this moment only pro's are testing it. These guys can certainly help make the editor better. But a non-pro (like myself) can give you feedback from a different perspective. The terrain editor you've created might very well get imbedded in the new UnrealEd, and when it does, it not only needs to have handy features...it also needs to be intuitive and easily learned by non-pro's. Here's where I come in.
You'd be amazed by the feedback an outsider can give to make you're editor just that little better...

Nothing wrong with my salespitch, is there? :)
 
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#54
Greenhell said:
I couldn't find it anymore either

the Xproc Mesh in that UT2004 cave level

Good to hear you're expanding the tutorial page. The more info, the better...

Nothing wrong with my salespitch, is there? :)
Click to expand...

AFAIK there was never any info on UDN regarding the xProcMesh.
That and a number of other engine features simply were not completed or fully documented.

You must be referring to the CTF-LostFaith map with the xProcMesh banners and underground river? Author was Scott McGregor.
Perhaps for the texture names you are thinking of my mapper friend Hourences (UT2k4 Rankin, Dawn, Dria, etc.) who often does not use english names for custom assets.

If only I had enough time to get all of this info out of my head and onto my web site... :)
There are numerous partially completed areas of my site, probably enough to double the current UE2.5 pages, I am waiting for the time to get them done and online.
I have a massive TerrainInfo information and tutorial page in the works too, which relates directly to choosing proper heightmap size and TerrainScales for RO.

Your salespitch sounds fine... :p
HMES may at some time in the future be sold to the general public.
Currently it is still in alpha, so I have many more months of programming to complete before my current beta team gives it a good run-through.
 
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#57
Britney Federline said:
I have to pipe in that Greenhell made arguably the best maps that the RO mod ever had (and we've been waiting for his triumphant return!), so he'd be a really good guy to pick.

And he did not pay me to make that statement, although he should.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great compliment! It really means a lot to me. (money has been transferred to your account :) )

PUTZ said:
.<off topic>Dammit Greenhell, the community wants Maikop1942. Pls? kthxbai.
</off topic>.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I did start mapping on Maikop again...very, very slowly. The problem is time and me not having a lot to spare. I do think you'd like the changes I have in mind. Perhaps in the near future I will post some screens.


DGUnreal said:
You must be referring to the CTF-LostFaith map with the xProcMesh banners and underground river? Author was Scott McGregor.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but I think the level was called Rrajigar. It has the underground xproc mesh river and a lot of custom assets, which had dutch names (some of which were quite funny too).
 
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#58
Greenhell said:
The problem is time and me not having a lot to spare.

I'm not sure, but I think the level was called Rrajigar. It has the underground xproc mesh river and a lot of custom assets, which had dutch names (some of which were quite funny too).
Click to expand...

No spare time for beta testing then... ;) :p

Rrajigar is another of Hourences' maps (Sjoerd De Jong).
He often uses non-english asset names, I don't speak the language so I can't comment on their funniness.
 
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#60
DGUnreal said:
No spare time for beta testing then... ;) :p

Rrajigar is another of Hourences' maps (Sjoerd De Jong).
Click to expand...

Sjoerd de Jong is a very dutch name, just about as dutch as it gets :)

And about beta-testing, I won't bother you again on that issue. It would have been a lifesaver though, seeing that I'm currently busy with building a level for a gamecompany, and I would like a bit more control then XSI gives me atm on making good terrain. I did find a way around the problem, but it's a bit of a hassle. Ah well, can't have it all :)
 
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