Yeah, I havent been around in a long time, but I'm back, constantly playing RO whenever I can, and I was wondering about how people felt about the PPSh-41's Recoil, IMO its far too much considering the weight of the gun, and the Ccaliber, I feel it should be lessened to Mod levels, and make it the true "bullet hose" it was acclaimed to be, just my opinion...
PPSh-41 Recoil
- Thread starter Death_Eagle_571
- Start date
Argh, I shoulda specified standing recoil, the crouched and prone recoil is pretty good, I think the standing should be the same as the crouched recoil, and the crouched recoil slightly lessened, or kept the same...
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IMO the problem is the same as I explained in the "free aim"-thread: If the weapon would move more while jogging, instead of being almost fixed on a certain point in the players field of view, the recoil of the submachineguns could be brought to a much more realistic level. But as it is now we need the exaggregated recoil to balance things out.
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Totally agreed and your not the first to mention this i know i've mentioned it numerous times, but tbh your probadly better off taking this idea to the mod teams out there cos i doubt TW are interested at this stage unless they choose to implement for ro2 who knows?
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Standing recoil while sighted is the only thing that is a problem IMHO, otherwise it is all fine and dandy.
It's fine bucking like a mule from the hip as it isn't shouldered and braced, the real hipping problem these days anyway is semi autos, it seems more and mroe all I am seeing is people running around like rambo with SVT40's and Gewher41/43's firing wildly and accuratley from the hip.
It's fine bucking like a mule from the hip as it isn't shouldered and braced, the real hipping problem these days anyway is semi autos, it seems more and mroe all I am seeing is people running around like rambo with SVT40's and Gewher41/43's firing wildly and accuratley from the hip.
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That is indeed the main issue. But it's more than a problem, it's frankly ludicrous. Proned recoil is fine, crouched is fairly fine but perhaps could do a tiny reduction in recoil? But really, standing recoil is far too much. I never, ever, aim the ppsh standing up. It's utterly pointless in any instance, which is totally wrong from a realism and gameplay point of view.
But then in general computer games seem to "overpower" crouching and going prone. And by that I mean consider this scenario... 2 guys see each other at 30m distance, what would they do in real life? I imagine they'd probably aim their weapon immediately and fire. In a computer game... both sides would crouch instantly or perhaps even dive to prone and aim at the same time. Crouching in this instance has no drawback, and the stander suffers from being a larger target and for some reason much greater recoil.
Having never fired more than a shotgun from a standing position, I can't speak from experience... so correct me if I'm wrong. But surely someone quickly crouching to fire off a shot would be in a less stable position than someone who simply has to brace and aim?
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Personaly i dont care about balance at all. All i want is realism and in this case the game has it all wrong. Small caliber round shooting from a heavy gun with a long barral should never have the most recoil compaired to every other gun. These guns were known to be more effective at long range then the other smgs used during the war due to the higher muzzle volicity and longer barral. While in the game its the least accurate. Its all horribly wrong. What bother me more then anything is they claim the recoil is realistic instead of just being honest with us and saying hey we had to kick up the recoil to balance things out. Maybe the next game they make will be based on realism alone. But i think its hopeless to wish for a fix for this one. They apparently dont want to fix it or they would have already.
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PPSH "suported" is like MG, and the MG on the other hand is a gun from star wars. The thing IMO that needs to be fixed is the MG accuracy, that sometimes hits, but most of the time doesnt hit anything except the wall behind the enemy.
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This is a game, and a game needs balance. Otherwise people will leave or winteam join when there is no chance of winning.
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But it's not A small caliber round being fired from a heavy gun. It's 900 small caliber rounds per minute being fired from that gun. Of all the weapons in the game, it's got the second highest rate of fire, I believe, coming in second only to the MG-42.
And personally, I find it to be extremely accurate WHEN fired in controlled bursts. The problem is, much like the MG-42, people don't understand WHAT a controlled burst is. In a single second, the PPSh-41 can fire 15 rounds. Go ahead and count "one onethousand" in your head. You just fired 15 rounds. In under 5 seconds, you can empty the entire 71-round magazine. Think about that for a second. Just how easily do you think you can control a weapon firing that quickly, even if it IS firing pistol rounds out of a heavy gun? I'd say "not very" IF you're firing long bursts. The trick with the PPSh is to fire bursts that are LESS than a second long. If you do that it's a pretty controllable gun.
As for making it 100% realistic, I suspect you'd soon find people on the German side SERIOUSLY pissed. The PPSh in the mod was often accused of being too accurate over "long range."
The trouble is, people don't have a sense of perspective. As I said in the "free aim" thread, I'd estimate that the longest engagement ranges we have in RO stock maps are about 400m. And that's when you're doing things like shooting from the tower down the alley on Odessa, or perhaps from the Railyard Station to the command post on Basovka.
The PPSh is supposed to have been accurate to, what, 250m? 300m? I don't recall exactly, but it's well past the 150m or so of the MP-40. I also don't know if that was in single fire mode or firing bursts but, there you have it.
Now, try to imagine that on most RO maps. At ranges where we're used to using rifles, concievably the PPSh could also take you out. Don't you think that'd cause a LITTLE bit of a commotion?
Without changing the distances of maps, the PPSh could turn into a major dominating force, which would make the maps a real drag to play as the Germans, unless other steps were taken to balance the game. And yes, balance IS necessary, to the extent that both sides should have an even chance of winning (assuming evenly competent teams) at the start of any given map. That doesn't mean we turn every gun into basically the same gun as the opposite side has but with a different model/skin. But it does mean that SOMETIMES you have to sacrifice A LITTLE realism for a little fun.
Anyway, as I said, I think the PPSh is fine for the maps we have. It's a highly effective SMG, and is still quite effective at up to, say, 75m or so, which is pretty much the SMG range you see on most maps. But the PPSh shouldn't be able to snipe across maps without other steps being taken to balance the maps in general.
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the ppsh and the pps both have a muzzle brake. per shot recoil should be lower than everything else. hey were the best smgs of the war. noone should ever consider taking the ppd over the ppsh because of stupid recoil. imo something thats better in real life should be also better in the game. it should nearly never happen that a russian drops his ppsh for a mp40, but ingame this happen often. sure, u can balance things out, but better guns in real life should still be better guns ingame.
smgs in general are somehow stupid. i often prefer a boltrifle for attacking, because i can take out enemys at maybe 20 metres without going to prone. especially the ppsh needs less recoil while standing and even while crouching to make it more usefull as a shoulderd gun without support. especially guys that are behind something and show only their head do nearly never fear smgfire. right now the semis do the smgs job better than the smgs, and that is stupid. you will notice this especially on bigger custommaps. the most official maps are so small, that the smgs are usefull, but mostly as hipped sprayguns, but still: semis are better in nearly every situation.
when i think back to the mod, the smgs were also not that usefull from the shoulder back than, but they had less recoil and a higher dmg.sure, the recoil from the hip is better now but i cant understand why they killed their usefullness from the shoulder without support.
hope for more usefull smgs in the next release
smgs in general are somehow stupid. i often prefer a boltrifle for attacking, because i can take out enemys at maybe 20 metres without going to prone. especially the ppsh needs less recoil while standing and even while crouching to make it more usefull as a shoulderd gun without support. especially guys that are behind something and show only their head do nearly never fear smgfire. right now the semis do the smgs job better than the smgs, and that is stupid. you will notice this especially on bigger custommaps. the most official maps are so small, that the smgs are usefull, but mostly as hipped sprayguns, but still: semis are better in nearly every situation.
when i think back to the mod, the smgs were also not that usefull from the shoulder back than, but they had less recoil and a higher dmg.sure, the recoil from the hip is better now but i cant understand why they killed their usefullness from the shoulder without support.
hope for more usefull smgs in the next release
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That's right, standing a short burst means nothing, in fact it is more effective when standing to aim at someones feet and fight the recoil slowing it as it drags the weapon up them in a long burst.
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