Level Design Wateverovko_50

[Drecks]

With the TWB 50 server up for some weeks i had a chat with Butch Cassidy and decided
to prepare Wateverovko for the 50 slot server.
Some hate it others will like it. Some think it's CRAP

A quick job is running on the 50 server right now but already
working on a better update.
That update will fix the spawnkill on the 1st Axis spawn.

Some other changes are:

Less fog (iff performance will let me)
The universal carrier
More cover and houses
Better capsequence
Wider capzones
Less hills
Less fausts
Better textures
More playerstarts

I want to include the AT weapons with winterskin when they are here.
Off course as usual suggestions are welcome.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I have only played it at the 32 player level, and I do like it, so....

Some suggestions besides what you stated:

- The cap sequence after the hill has been recaptured, the whole village is also open to capture while the hill is still in play. Somehow that seems a bit awkward. Not sure what to suggest. I do like the back-and-forth battle over the hill though.
- The large open field opposite the hill and village seems to rarely get used. Maybe you could make an objective over there also that needs to be captured along with the hill to open up the village? Not sure if that could be done.
- If AT Guns are used, possibly fewer tanks for the Germans and fewer fausts.
- Either only one or no clowncars if the universal is used.

 

[ButchCassidy]

With the TWB 50 server up for some weeks i had a chat with Butch Cassidy and decided
to prepare Wateverovko for the 50 slot server.
Some hate it others will like it. Some think it's CRAP

A quick job is running on the 50 server right now but already
working on a better update.
That update will fix the spawnkill on the 1st Axis spawn.

Some other changes are:

Less fog (iff performance will let me)
The universal carrier
More cover and houses
Better capsequence
Wider capzones
Less hills
Less fausts
Better textures
More playerstarts

I want to include the AT weapons with winterskin when they are here.
Off course as usual suggestions are welcome.

Well I love it and the version on the server plays really well.
The additions like extra spawn protection and a new cap sequence will make the map flow much better but I am really looking forward to the AT guns in winter camo..mmmm....nice

 

[Drecks]

The version which is now on the 50 server. Will make the Hill close once
the Allies has the east side of the town. So the Axis now first need to retake
the east town before they can go for the hill.

I think this is what you mean Moe ?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Oh, that is a good idea. The hill is still recappable until the Russians have also taken the east side of town. Might I suggest that it be a little harder then for the Russians to capture the east side of town...for a bit of balance?

Might I also add, the battle for the last section of the town is a little anti-climatic. The first four objectives are where the majority of the fighting takes place. Maybe some last ditch defensive positions for the Germans?

 

[sander]

Whatever...

 

[EscAz]

Less faust is realllly a mistake for gameplay. It can ruin the game when you have bad tanker on your side and turn into a spawn camp. Tanks don't even need to think, they can just run in and look for other tanks. With the tons of infantry it's just barely possible to take a panzerfasut and reach the tank (I speak for the hill where the action takes place 80% of the time)

Otherwise the map is way better played with 50, but IMO capzone (specially the 2nd flag) can be even bigger.

 

[Sichartshofen]

Spawn protection at the first German spawn is needed. More then 1 anti-tank is needed as well. 1 guy is not capable of dealing with 3 tanks and APC's, especially when they don't know what they're doing.

This damn T34 was spawn camping for 5 minutes until someone finally went out to find a Panzerfaust to take him out. If that Panzerfaust crate was still there this wouldn't have happened. Better yet, a minefield volume would solve the problem.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Less faust is realllly a mistake for gameplay. It can ruin the game when you have bad tanker on your side and turn into a spawn camp. Tanks don't even need to think, they can just run in and look for other tanks. With the tons of infantry it's just barely possible to take a panzerfasut and reach the tank (I speak for the hill where the action takes place 80% of the time).....

Whether there are more or less fausts available, they shouldn't be based on the possibility that you may have a lame tanker on your team....

If there are less panzerfausts, it should be where the AT Guns are.

 

[Slyk]

Less Panzerpussy's the better. I personally think they are the single worst element in this game. On a map such as this with such a short fog distance, you can't see them. It is tough enough to move your tank around and worry about enemy armor. The last thing you need is a rocket in everyone's hands. I would suggest:
- improved minefields to protect spawns
- a Panzerfaust troop role with no or few refills
- randomized AT guns covering key junctions. Once you see Ramm's tutorial (or mine) you will see how you can make it dynamic.

Everytime I play this map, I end up hating the map because of the PFs everywhere. As a tanker, it is just too hard for the Russians with all those things flying around.

 

[Drecks]

As mentioned the spawnkill issue is solved in the next version.
It's done my a minefield and blocking vehicle routes behind the railarea.

My mistake by nearly every map i released in a beta stage was my false hope
that players would team up. For example that tank could be destroyed by
an Axis tank but for some reason i think the Axis tankers just drive around
searching Allied infantry instead of help out their own infantry at their capzone.

I always thought "Combined arms" ment a combination of infantrist and
armed vehicles fight side by side. When they do this we can play with fewer fausts.

Combined arms is what i had in mind when i started this map. And the need of
teamwork is my ultimate desire.

That's the same reason i have only 1 anti tank role. The guy has 3 panzerfausts.
When he dies they are ready to grab and he respawns with 3 new fausts....

To defense their capzone they can hide inside the buildings and ask their own
panzers for help. With more fausts it will be an Allied tank massacre.

I say let's rock and roll in the next release and let the suggestions flow.....

 

[tochiri]

The greatest problem of this map is to be easy to defence The Kolchoz Area very much.
Please watch lower SS.

http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~saywuut/WateverovkoSS.jpg

German camps in this building, You must remodel it so that Russian can be easily in this building.
You can destroy a door of this front, and please do it, Or always open.
Russian is easy to come to do Attacking in this.

 

[Drecks]

I'm about to release an update this weekend but late shifts are reducing my time.

I share the thoughts about the panzerfaust so there is only one role in it.
I also reduced the amount of them to pick up in the map.

Let the tankers support the infantry is what i would say.
Some of the capzones have been resized and the Axis 1st spawn
is protected know. I'm expecting a lot of coment now cause Allied tankers
will drive into this protection for sure. But to them i say focus on the bloody objective !!

@ Tochiri

I do not experience the problem you mentioned.
That building has two entrances already. It all comes down to how people play the game.
Gather an Allied team attack the building and clear it and then camp it yourself.
To often i did attack that building myself.
But as my previous post stated teamwork is so hard to archieve
so i made a third wide door at the Allied side.

So even that building is NooB proove now. I noticed at an earlier
stage that is how people seem to like a custom map......

 

[Reservoir Dog]

Changes

Changes

I am a little sorry to see the fight to get into the first building has changed. I did enjoy the crossfire, elevated attacks from the building next to it, which most times needed to be cleared first, and the main tank path that both sides had to battle for to get tank positions. This will not make it as neccessary to go around the outside building to the right as much, except to get to the pfs that I'm not sure are still there. But for a 50 man map this might be more of a choke hold than players want, so I can understand why that might change.

Glad to see the spawn kill error has been fixed. Is there more cover out of spawns now for both sides? Will this restrict Allies movement and cover across the map?

Glad less pfs. Totally agree, no fun with pf spamming for a tanker, experienced or otherwise.

Look forward to seeing the changes to the map. I'm sure it will be more fun with the changes and 50 players.

 

[dogbadger]

I played the 50 version the other day, and I gather the last 2 caps have to be taken/ recapped in order now?
This certainly puts less burden on teamwork for russ, before you could rack up 250 points in a russ tank and lose the match 2:0 as you see-sawed the last caps. We lost this time too - but it was closer and there seemed to be a more cohesive front (although this may have been an illusion of numbers)
now it seems the Hill is the swinging cap though, as it doesn't lock.
Maybe the map gets critised when really the teams need to co-operate more, but ive never really been bothered by this myself.
Phaps i am resigned to not relying on teamwork there - and just enjoy going nuts in the t-34, win or lose, but i'm sure this isn't what you intended.

This new cap order could be the only way though - on public its all well and good trying to organise protection of caps while another one is assualted, but people tend to do what they want. It's a shame to go against you instinct of premoting teamwork, but phaps your old cap system is probably best left for organised matches.
It's a bit late for this, but another cap in no man's land, level with the hill that locks both leaving the final 2 to fight for might have worked well, as it would broaden the front of the game, and force both teams west, bringing that area into play more.

As to the amount of pfausts- i noticed on 50 man they seemed less of a threat- but that could be down to individuals as much as the greater amount of russ infantry neutralising them.

but yeah i like the new version , i always liked the old one- it's a classic on The Wild Bunch rotation for me.

 

[Drecks]

Dodgebadger could be me, but did you write the present version on the 50 server
doesn't lock the Hill capzone ?

I'm convinced it close when Allies take the east side of the town......
And open up when Axis retake the East side...

The Hill didn't close in the old version and make the game swing up and down.
which i thought was solved in the 50 server version.
Cause Allies need to defend the town to kept the hill closed....

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I really need to get on and try this new version....

 

[dogbadger]

Dodgebadger could be me, but did you write the present version on the 50 server
doesn't lock the Hill capzone ?

I'm convinced it close when Allies take the east side of the town......
And open up when Axis retake the East side...

The Hill didn't close in the old version and make the game swing up and down.
which i thought was solved in the 50 server version.
Cause Allies need to defend the town to kept the hill closed....

Sorry no it did lock after you took east IIRC on 50

What i meant was in old version after taking hill I would normally fly straight to Watev Centre (in t34) and cap very quickly, (making hill safe and taking it out of the picture?) and those final 2 caps would generally see-saw till the end.
If hill was not locked in old- I guess Germans were too busy trying to recap centre or east, and ignoring hill.
With the new linear setup, because it's harder to cap east quickly (your only option after hill) , the Germans were retaking hill frequently.
To be honest i want to play new version some more (in fact i hope TWb start trimming the maps on the 50 down to the most suitable, wateverovko being one of them)

Sorry if unclear before - hopefully this makes better sense? Probably not lol sorry.

 

[Drecks]

There must be an updated version on the 50 server somewhere.
This update has fixed the spawncamping and has more changes.
Didn't have the chance to play it myself.