Fear of Death
- Thread starter 4th Reich
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Yes, you're right that OFP and Raven Shield and games of that sort have a totally different pace. But even in games like that, I've seen people play the in-game equivalent of "run 'n' gun" and play as if they're suicidally brave. So, the mental aspect (or lack thereof) still is an issue in games like this. It's less that people take their virtual lives seriously and fear death, and more that the game and the way in which the avatar interacts with the game world force players to play that way. Which gets me back to my point about requests like this basically coming down to "But I want the game to play THIS way and screw all the rest of you and what you want."
Obviously, the run'n'gun aspect of those games doesn't work as well because of the accuracy of the weapons as well as the speed at which your avatar moves. RO is a different game, and is not designed to play that way, and the changes that would be necessary to make the game play like that, which is apparently your preferred playstyle, are radical and widespread.
Also, as I recall, don't OFP and Raven Shield use crosshairs and crosshair spread/conefire to affect accuracy? I seem to remember earlier games in the Rainbow 6 series using those. RO's approach is to have random movement with the barrel of the gun, but rounds go where the barrel points. Thus, if you can control your fire while on the move, you'll have a fighting chance of killing the enemy. In the end, though, the control is in your hands as the player, not in some algorithm buried in the game engine. I don't know about you, but I prefer that approach.
Now, if you guys are all hot and bothered to make the game slower paced and make weapon firing on the move less accurate, I've got a brilliant idea for ya.
Make a mutator yourselves.
Seriously. If it's that big a deal and you think this would be a really keen idea, make a mutator that:
- slows movement more than what we have currently.
- dramatically increases barrel sway while on the move.
- Either removes the respawn function, or multiplies respawn time on any map by a factor of between 3 and 5.
I think that's about as close to what I gather is your ideal game as you're gonna get in RO. Otherwise, accept it's flaws and recognize that you can't force other people to play the way you want 'em to.
And by the way, it's spelled rIdiculous, not rEdiculous. Sorry, pet peeve.
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First of all, I'm not a native English speaker, spelling and grammar mistakes are inevitable. If you find any, keep them.
Second: OFP doesn't have much larger cones of fire than RO does. Now you'll say "RO has no conefire." But, yes, it does. Calling it differently doesn't change the fact that it is the same thing. Still in OFP guns are about as accurate as RO's. RVS is a different thing.
But yes, part of the problem is that run-and-gun with the submachineguns is way too effective in RO. The weapon should bob much more while jogging instead of pointing almost flawlessly at the same spot.
Of course you'll always see players who will still do the rambo, but that's the bell curve. The distance of the average RO player to the average CS player isn't nearly as large as the distance of either to the average OFP player.
Third: I'm not a coder, but even if i was, I wouldn't waste my time on a mutator. Mutator's work for things like votemenus, votekick, teamkill punishment... but they don't work well for integral parts of the game.
Finally: Yes, bringing RO close to an infantry simulator would require major changes that would take months of work and would throw a lot of people off. That doesn't mean, however, that RO couldn't do better. Players will do what works best, if that incorporates running blindly into enemy lines while spraying with a PPSh, than that is what they'll do. That doesn't mean it can't be changed.
And it sure as hell doesn't mean that games in general can't achieve more cautious and more tactical gameplay, hence my original post.
Second: OFP doesn't have much larger cones of fire than RO does. Now you'll say "RO has no conefire." But, yes, it does. Calling it differently doesn't change the fact that it is the same thing. Still in OFP guns are about as accurate as RO's. RVS is a different thing.
But yes, part of the problem is that run-and-gun with the submachineguns is way too effective in RO. The weapon should bob much more while jogging instead of pointing almost flawlessly at the same spot.
Of course you'll always see players who will still do the rambo, but that's the bell curve. The distance of the average RO player to the average CS player isn't nearly as large as the distance of either to the average OFP player.
Third: I'm not a coder, but even if i was, I wouldn't waste my time on a mutator. Mutator's work for things like votemenus, votekick, teamkill punishment... but they don't work well for integral parts of the game.
Finally: Yes, bringing RO close to an infantry simulator would require major changes that would take months of work and would throw a lot of people off. That doesn't mean, however, that RO couldn't do better. Players will do what works best, if that incorporates running blindly into enemy lines while spraying with a PPSh, than that is what they'll do. That doesn't mean it can't be changed.
And it sure as hell doesn't mean that games in general can't achieve more cautious and more tactical gameplay, hence my original post.
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Actually, conefire vs. barrel sway is a LOT different.
Conefire means the barrel movement is irrelevant, and it's all determined by the conefire algorithm. The player can't control for conefire really, and has no idea where the bullets will land.
With barrel sway, the bullets go where the barrel points. Always. Yes, there's deviation of rounds, but that's different. Deviation isn't a factor of the player moving the barrel -- it would occur even if the weapon was locked down in a vice. But with barrel sway, the player has visual feedback about where the barrel is and can attempt to compensate. That means that player skill has a lot more to do with things than some random computer calculation over which the player has no control.
As for your point on mutators, mutators are for damn near anything, including fundamental gameplay changes that not everyone is interested in. You'll have a lot better luck petitioning for a mutator to try out some of your ideas than you will trying to convince Tripwire to fundamentally alter their game to suit your particular desires.
Conefire means the barrel movement is irrelevant, and it's all determined by the conefire algorithm. The player can't control for conefire really, and has no idea where the bullets will land.
With barrel sway, the bullets go where the barrel points. Always. Yes, there's deviation of rounds, but that's different. Deviation isn't a factor of the player moving the barrel -- it would occur even if the weapon was locked down in a vice. But with barrel sway, the player has visual feedback about where the barrel is and can attempt to compensate. That means that player skill has a lot more to do with things than some random computer calculation over which the player has no control.
As for your point on mutators, mutators are for damn near anything, including fundamental gameplay changes that not everyone is interested in. You'll have a lot better luck petitioning for a mutator to try out some of your ideas than you will trying to convince Tripwire to fundamentally alter their game to suit your particular desires.
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No, RO HAS CONEFIRE.
It was proven a long time ago by the guys who made the penetration mutator and even confirmed by an official TW employee whose name I'm not going to mention now. It is simply called differently in the code, but it is still there. Call it deviation of rounds if you will, but it doesn't change the fact that it is the same damn thing: a slightly random trajectory on every shot.
The reason why so many think it was nonexistant is because the cone is very small for the rifles, but very noticable for any smg and even the StG44. And OFP's confire is about the same as RO's for most guns. I'm not even arguing it was unrealistic. I'm just stating the obvious so people here can get of their high horses: RO has conefire.
It was proven a long time ago by the guys who made the penetration mutator and even confirmed by an official TW employee whose name I'm not going to mention now. It is simply called differently in the code, but it is still there. Call it deviation of rounds if you will, but it doesn't change the fact that it is the same damn thing: a slightly random trajectory on every shot.
The reason why so many think it was nonexistant is because the cone is very small for the rifles, but very noticable for any smg and even the StG44. And OFP's confire is about the same as RO's for most guns. I'm not even arguing it was unrealistic. I'm just stating the obvious so people here can get of their high horses: RO has conefire.
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I agree on this, while on the move, the weapons should be less effective (but that counts for ALL weapons). Though, as long some ... weapons have such a ridicouls behaviour while used in ironsight, this will be a problem. First make the weapons as accurate and deadly they should be in ironsight (particularly the SMGS), then I would consider to lower the effectivness of hip shoting. It always is disturbing, to see people, and my self also, using many weapons from the hip, while it should be used with the ironsighst. Never understood, why iam more effective with machinepistols from the hip instead with ironsights ...
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I haven't had any real trouble with firing SMGs from iron sights. But then I've gotten fairly good at firing VERY short bursts. Like, just barely tapping the fire button. >shrug< YMMV.
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well it gets mainly a problem, when you have to fight a riflemen, behind cover you know. I mean, just hitting a walking target runing somewhere around, is probably not a that big deal (even though, i see sometimes my bullets hit everything ... just not the guy). But to hit that super lidle inch of uniform behind that wall, fence or hill ... even on close distance ... so hard sometimes, which should not be on close distance. 
A reason, I prever a Rifle ANY day over any mp, except my ping and FPS are very low. Its "near" to unrealistic accuracy, cant be beaten by any other weapon.
A reason, I prever a Rifle ANY day over any mp, except my ping and FPS are very low. Its "near" to unrealistic accuracy, cant be beaten by any other weapon.
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