• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Easy way to add in heavy machine guns

Fungwu

Active member
Feb 15, 2007
26
0
My favorite class is machine gunner, and with the pending addition of 50+ player servers I think it is high time heavy machine guns are added to the game. To add them in as quickly as possible I have devised a simple plan.

As german hvy mg you have the mg34 or 42 as they are now, but with a tripod attached, obviously you cannot fire mg34 from the hip with tripod, also no sprinting or jumping, maybe sprinting but with 1/2 current stamina. You will setup the machine gun exactly as you do now, with the following exceptions: setting up take much longer, as you unfold the tripod legs and set the machine gun on top, maybe 5-20 seconds. You will be able to setup crouching anywhere as well as prone, you will setup on window sills and such as normal. Once setup the difference between light machine guns will be much less recoil, but slower traverse.

Ammuntion will be handled as follows, a new class will be available, mg assistant, basically a rifleman with no grenades, he will be able to resupply the machine gunner with ammo 10 times, but it will be much different than normal. Machinegunner will spawn with no ammo and will be able to only carry a maximum of one spare belt, each belt will be 50 rounds, but reloading will be instant . In effect the machine gunner assistant will simulate the practice of feeding belts into the mg, without any new coding.

The mg carries a max of 100 rounds (one belt in the gun and one in reserve) Since he can carry only 1 50 round belt in reserve, the mg assistant needs to give him ammo after every 50 rounds fired or the mg will run out of ammuntion very quickly.

This way we can simulate the fact the hvy mgs needed a crew to operate, rather than just one man, to keep firing, the mg will need a guy by him to keep feeding belts, or he will run out of ammo after 100 shots, also he will probably need 2 assistants since each one only carries 500 rounds, less than 30 secods firing time.

To summarize: To minimize new coding hvy mgs will deploy exactly like current mgs, except they will be able to deploy crouching as well as prone, and they will take much longer to deploy.

They will not play any animation or have any delay in reloading, but they will have only 1 50 round belt in the gun and one in reserve. Since they only have one belt in reserve, they need an mg assistant to give them a new belt after every 50 rounds to keep firing. The mg assistant will be a normal rifleman but with the ability to resupply the mg 10 times.

They hvy mgs advantage will be that it is more accurate and has less recoil than a light mg and that, as long as the assistant is feeding belts, it can fire continously (excepting barrel changes)

Its disadvantages will be that undeployed the player carrying it will move slowly, and be essentially helpless, it will take a long time to deploy, and thus be very vulnerable to enemies moving outside its arc of fire, and the gunner will need constant ammo resuplly from teammates.


Soviet maxim gun will be slightly different from the german guns. Just like dp the maxim will have no barrel change, but with a water cooled barrel and slower rate of fire, it will be able to fire for some time without overheating. Undeployed, like the german guns it will rest on the shoulder, delpoyed it will just be put on the ground sincec it has a carriage instead of a tripod.

The only new coding is as follows: the art for the new gun, for the germans the only new art will be adding a tripod to the existing model, the animation of setting up the tripod, or for the soviets setting the gun on the ground.

Thats it, the rest, as i explained can be covered by minor changes to existing code.
 
The only problem I see with this is the players themselves. What if there aren't enough players, and theres no one playing the support role? Or what if the person that's playing the support role is a complete moron?

If only bots weren't terrible, then they could do the filler positions and monotonus work.

Edit:TW reads through this section, And will post in here sometimes.
 
Upvote 0
"The only problem I see with this is the players themselves. What if there aren't enough players, and theres no one playing the support role? Or what if the person that's playing the support role is a complete moron?"

Well if there aren't enough players then you probably dont need, or shouldnt have a hvy mg.

all the support guy needs to do is follow you around and hit the g key when you ask for ammo, so it won't take a genius. Mg assistant could be an unlimited class, because it is only a rifle with no nades, so A: without nades a moron probably wouldnt take it B: Since it is basically a rifleman you dont need class limits and as many can be assistants as they want, if your current assitant is useless you can just ask some one else to help you out.

"if only bots weren't terrible, then they could do the filler positions and monotonus work."

Assistant is not meant to be monotonus, you only have to look at the mg and hit g every couple seconds, not at all if he's not firing, otherwise you are covering the mg's flanks and firing your weapon like any other player. Plus, I and others enjoy teamwork and dont find helping out teamates boring.
 
Upvote 0
This could work I think. I'd also like a way to leave the mg by itself once you've set up and not have it or the ammo disappear. That way other people can man it if you die (which will likely happen because you'll be a big, rather stationary target), and you can run from grenades or whatever. Also would be cool if you could use a heavy mg that's already set up and keep your primary weapon, but you have to drop your primary if you want to move the mg.

Now, problems: weren't most of the heavy mg's + tripod too heavy for one guy to move? The maxim + carriage is like 140 pounds! Also, there's a potential height problem, in that tripods or carriages may be too low to fire out of high windows or bunkers. In reality you'd just take the time to build up a base to raise it up, but you can't in game.

Otherwise I'd love to see hmg's in game, but I think they might be one of those things you really have to set up more than a matter of seconds before a battle.
 
Upvote 0
[...] it will take a long time to deploy, and thus be very vulnerable to enemies moving outside its arc of fire, and the gunner will need constant ammo resuplly from teammates.
[...]
Basically I agree to eveything you said, except this part.
Someone's out of your arc of fire, you pick up the tripod (on the back) and reposition it, takes less than 5 seconds. You can even carry it "comfortable" around with a comrade.
Yet this shouldn't be the case anyway, as it has a large arc of fire and the positioning should reflect it.

Additionally changing the direction you want to fire does also take very little time, the more experienced the guy fireing the gun is the faster he will be in rl.

I'm talking about the M42/MG34 here.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
I like the idea of the MG assistant class. He could be the only one who hands over ammo to the gunner and perhaps he could deploy sand bages so that the MG can be rested on them in open areas. I also would be nice if this two guys could "see" each other on the map.

I don't think that the germans need a tripod mounted heavy MG but looking over the MG and ducking behind them going a long with woobly iron sights would be nice features for the MG class. Having the Maxim in game would be great it could be like the MG-42 (impossible to hipshoot). I think we don't need an animation for the gunner the MG-34 of the halftrack doesn't have it neither so that the Maxim would be semi-static. This gun would really need an assistant.

In short no tripods but MG assistants and the Maxim (whithout gunner animations).

Think about it :cool:
 
Upvote 0
I kind of agree and disagree.

It might be a bit more awquad but in photos the assistant is running with the tripod whilst 1 guy is holding the MG. For gameplay we could forget this. Remember the German tripods also had a optics with a slight magnification a bit less than the current scopes though.

Also scroll wheel ducking!

Russian maxim may need that silly little trolly thing, although i'm not sure they always used that. Unless we add the Dshk would be fun!


It may be easier just to put mgs in predefine places like in COD.

Would ordinary players be able to provide the heavy mgs with 1 belt of ammo?
 
Upvote 0
Great idea..
We should ask someone with coding experience, if its that easy..
I think there should be 2 mgclasses.. i untouched ( light ) and the other (heavy) with a team.. so if there is nobody who is playin support/assistent you can still switch back to light.
And the russianv mg should stay as it is..

You should add binoculars for the assistent.. and 1-2 extra barrels. So a perfect working mg-crew at a good position is really hard to overcome.. ( even more realism @tw;) )
n0rm
 
Upvote 0
I like the idea, but I reckon you have the assistant carry the tripod and deploy it then the gunner plops the gun on.

Though the problem is realistically tripod mounted HMG's weren't used in such a mobile way, they were more a company level sort of thing. They'd probably work better as a map placed item like the AT guns. Imagine Tula Outskirts with a few tripod mounted HMG's to pepper the russian ridge line and a few Maxims on their side to add to the fun. Likewise imagine Basovka with a big arsed Maxim in the station.
 
Upvote 0
Jolly good Idea.. But one problem.. the assistant MG gunner...
Everyone is selfish in games.. and who wants to just sit by the MG, watching it blast down ruskies?

Nother problem... this will only work in defence maps.. And... as if we ever get time to put up a proper defence when it comes to the fact that the russians and germans start at the same time?

atleast give the defenders a 30 sec headstart...

But on the other side..

Good Idea =) Would love to try it... (eventhough i would reconmend a start of 200 rounds at least... And the recoil of the tri-pod MG has to be LOW! and add some good MG optic sights.

Would ordinary players be able to provide the heavy mgs with 1 belt of ammo?

Uhm... As an american solider commended in this WW2 documentary...

The jerries where overloaded with belts of MG ammo.. some only armed with a luger, just carrying belts of ammo for the mg42s.

So... atlest one belt of ammo for german infantry? Perhaps not for the assult classes.. but most atleast.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0