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Machine Guns

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Demonic Spoon

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 29, 2006
167
19
#1
alright-Not sure of it now, but when I used to play RO (I quit for a few months), people were complaining of the lack of suppression in this game, that MGs didn't have the effect they should.

This is wrong. If you're looking for a suppression beast that can keep firing and make it impossible for anyone to stick their head out, you want a tripod-mounted, belt-fed MG. Since those do not exist in RO, we have the squad-based weapons. Yes, they were still good for suppression (and are in RO), but aren't going to simply stop an enemy force in its tracks alone.

The squad MG lacks the firepower and stability of the tripod MGs, so it makes up for it in mobility. That is, you should be moving every once in awhile. Machine guns are AWESOME for getting people to stay down (if they aren't dead in the first burst), as well as taking a few quick bursts to where they ducked behind (to make 'em reconsider coming out), and then move.

Honestly, if you're looking at this from the angle that the squad MG should be setting up in a huge, overlooking position and proceed to dominate the battlefield, you're looking at it the wrong way.
 
#3
You are talking about a longer timeframe here. Obviously an MG with 1000+ shots in its belt can suppress someone longer than one with 250, so the 250 one has to re-locate pretty often which is what we do in-game. We don't set up MG-nests that have to last for the whole round or the next few rounds or the next few days. I think you would agree that they should be able to last for the next few minutes though.
However in RO the MGs hardly suppress anyone and that has nothing to do with the lack of a tri-pod or the small drum/belt capacities ...
 
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#6
However in RO the MGs hardly suppress anyone and that has nothing to do with the lack of a tri-pod or the small drum/belt capacities
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They actually do. If I shoot a burst at someone, and they don't die, they get the hell out of my line of fire. If I fire a burst at an area, I never see someone pop up and shoot at me.

Granted he can still move around to a different location, or wait for me to stop firing in his area...but that's fine. Nothing wrong with this.
Lean-Bug (is said to be fixed in the next update)
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Agree
Lack of penetration
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The hell are they supposed to penetrate?

Lack of teamplay
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Indeed! MGs are a thousand times more powerful when you have some competent riflemen backing you up.

Being spotted very easily
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Not an issue.
​
 
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#8
Well you're going to have lack of suppression issues with any game where you don't actually die. Rifles, SMGs tanks etc. all have lack of supression or fear of death because no one really dies. More of a general game issue (in all games) than the weapon.

I'd say the MG is less effective than it should be even after game mechanics (no fear of death etc.) due to lean bug, and the sight issues (the sight is set to 0 range so anything at 200m on the MG42 you're shooting blind.. it's a little to the left also). Might even throw in some clipping issues where you deploy and look clear, but all your shots dig into invisable dirt/wall where you deployed, and the lovely deploy refusal even when 2 inches away it deployed fine before.

But if the map allows, you can supress or control areas by deploying at an angle so that you're not visable to anyone outside the area you want to control. Anyone wanting a shot at you has to enter the area giving you the first shot.

Example, covering a bridge by being in building that's off to the side (not visable) and covers the last 1/2 of the bridge, anyone wanting a shot has to move to your killing zone. That instead of setting up at the end of the bridge and targeting the whole length, but being in open being a target for any lean shooter or decent rifleman (due to easy spotting, no fear of being hit by MG).
Gorlitz map is a great one for that, why they have the offensive tanks to remove you from the spot.

Takes more work but can still be dominating even along (backup is always prefered of course) if the map allows..

T.
 
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#9
Demonic Spoon said:
Being spotted very easily
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Not an issue.
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It is, the laser beams :p equals with a please kill me, I'm here sign.

I know that the following affects every defending class: In reality if you defend you prepare your positions, you camouflage, you dig trenches (or shooter-swales) in order to ensure that there won't be fire from directions at your place you don't want to have and that you are not spotted easily.
And no, this does not take days, a few hours and you have a more decent position then you have in most RO maps. And this is not meant as *****ing at the mappers or whoever, simply that the MG does not work that well in the game, while the rifle-class does (being very accurate and high first hit probabilty). I love killing people at a great distance. :)

In reality if someone is firing at you, often you don't have the time to spot his exact position - if you survive in the first place - in RO no matter how far the MG is away, you know it relative exactly.

Yes there are maps, where MGs work wonders - I like being MGer on Berezina, especially on the 50 player server there are enough targets :) . But on many it does not.
 
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#10
@Demonic spoon:
Define suppression,if its firing to a bunch of enemies and stop them from rushing and forcing them to take cover yes it works but if it means for example suppressing a corner so nobody is able to even pop his head well that doesnt work in RO.
And being spotted is not an issue?LOL, it is a major issue in RO as well as it is in RL, pls do me a favour and setup your mg34 in a sweet spot.First try shooting with tracer rounds(primary attack) then sometime later go to same sweet spot and shoot with secondary fire(non-tracer rounds) and compare how long did it take for enemy to kill u?
 
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#13
Cuddles said:
I have practiced with the MG and its actually very effective at longranges against moving targets, especialy in city maps, where there are no places to flank, nor hide. The weird thing is that sometimes MGs have more recoil than other times. And still Ithink tracers are to long and slow.
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Amizaur posted in the AB that the tracers for the tank mgs are a lot slower than the normal rounds, he sped them up a little bit.
Ok, found it:
- tank MG tracers now travel at 0.9 speed of normal tank MG rounds (normal rounds arrive a little faster).
In stock RO it was 0.5 (twice as slow as normal bullets), in AB 2.03 was 0.8.
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I'm not sure if the stock RO MG (for infantry) tracers are also slower, but judging from the speed of the Tank MG tracers now it seems so.

Imo another problem of the tracers is that you can see them easily on day maps, while this is not so easy in reality with modern tracer rounds, and I guess it was not different in the past.
A small experient to show my point:
Take a stick, light it, wait until one end glows and now rapidly move it around ("drawing" 8 or whatever). On the day you hardly will see something special, in the night you'll see the "trace", the same way I experienced tracer rounds in reality (they have a long, thin trace in the night!).

@Sigurd well the RO devs said a higher player count is not possible, they said the same for penetration. Well now we have a higher player count and penetration (INFPenetration and the RMFMOD, not sure if the later implemented it differently). Yes there need to be done more work on penetration (won't happen on INFPenetration), but it is not such a big performance terminator they made us believe in the first place.
 
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#14
Cuddles said:
I have practiced with the MG and its actually very effective at longranges against moving targets, especialy in city maps, where there are no places to flank, nor hide. The weird thing is that sometimes MGs have more recoil than other times. And still Ithink tracers are to long and slow.
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Tracers are slower then usual bulets in the game, cause otherwhise we would not be able to see them, cause of the FPS. If I rember corectly.

And yea, I noticed that as well. Sometimes the Recoil seems to be perfect, other times it jumps around like a mule, and seems to make no difference if you are prone, crouched or standing ... is anyone else noticing that
:confused: its really weird sometimes and killed me already more then once.
 
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#17
You can switch of the collision of StaticMeshes for different other objects e.g. you can have a crate you can shoot through but you can't walk through, or an energy shield you can walk through but not shoot through.
I assume their trees work like that although that's illogical because the weapons in RO should not be able to penetrate trees unless they are very small.

There was a team of talented coders who worked on a more realistic penetration mutator a while ago. One that would allow you to shoot through objects based on their depths (and maybe material too, I can't remember). I never heard of it lately and I think they needed help from Tripwire but never recieved it. I could be wrong though. Take a look into the modding section to see for yourself.
 
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