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Grenade Discussion (Merged About 3000 Times)

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#521
Nestor Makhno said:
In a map I intend to do (one day ;) ), based on the Kommissarhaus near the Barrikady gun factory in Stalingrad, there will be a class with ONLY grenades :D - maybe 12 of them - based on the Russian worker's militia guy, Fedin.

He dropped his gun, ran out of the front door and spammed the advancing German platoon with so many nades that they had to all hide in shellholes and then he got away :eek:
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Nice.... :)
 
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#523
ViViD said:
Just to set the record straight for you guys.

Mappers have thee choice of two grenades or No grenades, although it says you can put in any number in reality it gives you two grenades with any number other then 0.
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Really?

Damn - never tried to play with that before :mad:

Maybe a friendly code monkey could make a mut. ;)
 
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#526
Solo4114 said:
Run and gun "works" at all ranges in the sense of it giving players what they want -- fast-paced action.
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You have NEVER, EVER played RO in the mod days, did you? Yes, you can always try to run and gun. No one's gonna stop you. But how much are you going to last? Maybe a minute? Maybe less? Then you have to wait 50 seconds. It's not fun anymore when you spend half of your time waiting to respawn. If you are a whiny kid you probably die a couple of times then leave the game. If you are a quite mature gamer you just... Adapt and start playing tactically. The problem is, a good half of the player base is made out of whiny kids. Thanks a lot, TW.


Solo4114 said:
There's also something else to point out here. People often piss and moan about run and gun tactics, but what the hell else is a guy with an SMG supposed to do exactly?
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Err... I do assume I know little about actual tactics that were in use, since I always thought they were primarily intended for mid to short range suppressive fire other than close combat and house clearing. Oh, well...
 
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#527
Neuromante said:
Err... I do assume I know little about actual tactics that were in use, since I always thought they were primarily intended for mid to short range suppressive fire other than close combat and house clearing. Oh, well...
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Well. SMG:s are designed to kill on short to mid range distances.

But ofcourse they are good supressive weapons on those ranges too, if you want to use them like that. But then a question arises. Who does the dirty job, if SMG:s are used to lay down suppressive fire?

Tactic was, that rifles/MG:s suppres and SMG:s clean. That
 
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#528
Neuromante said:
You have NEVER, EVER played RO in the mod days, did you? Yes, you can always try to run and gun. No one's gonna stop you. But how much are you going to last? Maybe a minute? Maybe less? Then you have to wait 50 seconds. It's not fun anymore when you spend half of your time waiting to respawn. If you are a whiny kid you probably die a couple of times then leave the game. If you are a quite mature gamer you just... Adapt and start playing tactically. The problem is, a good half of the player base is made out of whiny kids. Thanks a lot, TW.
Click to expand...

Actually, I did play during the mod days from about 3.1 and on. I remember when they shrunk the hit boxes to the actual outline of the avatars, when they added the MG-42, etc. The gameplay is no different today from what it was then. This perception of "Oh noes!! Our mature and 'proper' community has been infiltrated by a bunch of noobie 13-year-olds" is a steaming load. The community is larger. that's it. There were idiot 13-year-olds back then just the same as there were mature players back then. The only difference now is that there are more players now. Period.


Err... I do assume I know little about actual tactics that were in use, since I always thought they were primarily intended for mid to short range suppressive fire other than close combat and house clearing. Oh, well...
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The point here is that you have to RUN to get TO short range house clearing and such, where you then GUN at close range. My question is merely to point out that when people piss and moan about all the "run 'n' gunners" out there or the "rambo guys", I don't get what exactly they're pissed about. Or to the extent that I do, I think they're just whining without good reason.

A guy with a short range weapon is going to haul ass to get in close where his weapon can actually be used effectively instead of just wasting ammo. If a player with a long range weapon can't hit the sonofa***** before he gets in close, whose fault is that: the devs for "making run'n'gun effective", or the player who's a lousy shot?


Here's how I see it:

- Run 'n' gun tactics means you fire on the move with your SMG. People who ***** about this being effective are playing a different game from the one I play. I almost never see people actually trying to fire while running across open ground at medium-long range with an SMG. And if I do, they're NEVER effective with it. SMGs are only good for hip shooting at short range. Anything beyond that is pure luck.

- To the extent that people are complaining about SMGers running and then getting in close enough to kill them, my advice is either to work on your aim, work on your situational awareness, or both. And if none of those are an option for you, quit complaining and get used to it. A rifleman who is aware of his surroundings and is a decent shot will usually be able to pick off an approaching SMGer with ease. If said SMGer is actually moving from cover to cover, news flash: he's not using run 'n' gun tactics.


As far as people running around a lot and not pausing to fire from cover, well, some folks just like to play that way and that's always how it'll be. If this bugs people, they should get over it. You can't make someone else play the way you want them to play.
 
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#530
Phoenix-D said:
"In the mod days"..what a load of crap. Warsaw had something like a 45 second respawn timer, and you know what that map was? Grenade hell. And oddly enough you saw the same amount of "run and gun" as you did on shorter respawn maps.
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Yep. The mod days were not some golden age. Most of the changes from the mod to Ostfront have been positive in my view. I actually can't think of any that are negative, except possibly the loss of the C96. And even then, the C96 was nothing special, really.
 
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#531
Solo4114 said:
Yep. The mod days were not some golden age. Most of the changes from the mod to Ostfront have been positive in my view. I actually can't think of any that are negative, except possibly the loss of the C96. And even then, the C96 was nothing special, really.
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Well, there WERE a few losses:
-you couldn't jump out of moving vehicles and live in the mod
-the voice binds were actually useful, as they didn't play to the entire map
 
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#534
My grenade rant.

My grenade rant.

The way grenades are handled should be changed. Danzig was already grenade heaven, but with 40 or 50 players it's just not fun anymore. I played games were I couldn't even get to the cap zones to defend because every russian was lobbing grenades at our approuch routes.

This isn't as much of a problem on the larger maps but a lot of the infantry maps still suffer from it. I started counting how many times I died by grenades and how many times by bullets, And almost every infantry map those numbers where about the same, which isn't right.
Except for Danzig, where I died about twice as much from grenades. I don't know any real life numbers for the amount of dead accounted for by grenades but surely they didn't account for half of them?

Now I understand that grenades are a part of a soldiers equipment, but surely it wasn't as easy to throw a grenade in real life as in this game? You at first had to put away your weapon away, and the Germans even had to take a cap of their grenades. And how often were grenades used during close combat?

I don't think it was as easy as making one click with your mouse wheel, wait for about 0.5 secs for the grenade to be in your hand, pull the pin, and chuck it in the direction of the enemies spawn approach.

A 'fix' for this would be to make it harder for people to simply throw nades as easy as they can now, or reduce the overall grenade count (which some custom maps already do).


Thanks for reading and please leave your thoughts.
 
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#536
"And how often were grenades used during close combat?"

Alot, by all accounts grenades were very effective in close combat, but in game they have an exaggerated effect for several reasons,

Some maps are poorly designed and are filled with narrow chokepoints

Players are constantly respawning and so there is a constant rain of grenades

The effects of grenades are probably exaggerated, a RO grenade will kill you from 30 feet away 50% of the time.

The easiest solution to your problem is not to play small maps, I don't.
Also grenades could be made less powerful. Also they could be deployed in limited numbers, like on the original tula outskirts, given to only to assault troopers, are only to riflemen like on gorlitz.

Anyway since I don't expect TW to change anything I would suggest avoiding small maps if you want to avoid frustration.
 
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#537
Devs,

You are going to hear this more and more as people try to play on tiny little maps with 50 people. I recommend you merge grenade complaint threads and resist changing anything about grenades. Instead, encourage server admins to remove tiny maps from their >32 player servers, and inform everyone that you intend to release a couple of maps in due time that are designed specifically for 50 people. Please do not change anything about the grenades themselves, or their loadouts. Thank you.
 
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