Axis Tanks = Owned?
- Thread starter Acyllius
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Yup completely agreed!!
But people must remember, Konigs is more-so infantry based then tank-based. If they stuggle with tanks, thats purely the map design! IT IS NOT A TANK MAP!!!!!!
Its just a bit of fun!
But people must remember, Konigs is more-so infantry based then tank-based. If they stuggle with tanks, thats purely the map design! IT IS NOT A TANK MAP!!!!!!
Its just a bit of fun!
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Realism
Realism
Realism
The IS2 is very powerfull but it is no way immortall I have had clean kills at 800m+ in a tiger or panther. If you read any standing orders issued to German tankers in the war they always emphasise team work, outflanking and the use of artillary. Whilst it is not perfect RO is the most realistic tank/combat sim that I have come across. If you want everything to be nice and fluffy and play as a loner get an arcade game.
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True, the IS2's only main strong point was it's gun. The IS2 can be destroyed at times at long ranges by Tigers and Panthers, and as in real life, it was easy prey when in close range as it's armour thickness made no differance to German guns when fighting in cities.
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Ah, "you are arcade" ad hominem attacks begin. You claim that you are getting kills against an angled IS2 at 800 meters, when it is completely impossible to aim at a particular spot, but I can't destroy an angled IS2 at 100 meters even when I can try aiming at different spots. How do you do it? The fancy real life strategies just don't translate into the game very well and reading them won't give you any advantage in AP shell penetration values.
And I agree with you Elysium, the IS2 in the game is a completely different tank with upgraded armour when compared to the real life version.
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i love when ppl start to talk about flanking everytime, in every discussion,like it is easy in game or the posting guy(whiner) is a total idiot who happens to have an IQ level of a bot that does the same thing over and over again who cant think approaching enemy from a different direction but instead come here to post bull****.
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What? Upgraded armor?
Do remember that the game has some issues with angled armor and the IS2 still has 120mm 30/60 deg. (upper/lower front). At short ranges the IS2 can be penetrated by almost all the Axis tank in game atm, as they should, thats why cities are a no-no zone for tanks.
IMHO the largest share of whining about the tanks (particularly axis tank weakness) come from inexperienced tankers. Almost every tank I face just freezes there and shoots. One time I managed to kill 5-6 axis tanks in BDJ from behind (very short range, all of them were in the same place), none of them even turned around. 3 of them were Tigers
eek: ), some of the drivers just zipped out and got killed. Lets just learn to tank now, you'll see that the PzIII is almost the best tank around.
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Well, apart from the part about the Tiger, that is just about how most resources say it was in real life, isn't it?
Really the whole armor thing is screwed up, with angling being much too effective and... well... weird and random at times. Even if that gets fixed, don't expect any wonders. With the degree of simulation we get concerning tanks there will always be a slight pro-Russian bias. The poor ergonomics of the T34-76's turret aren't modeled, the (for the most part) better optics of the German tanks aren't either, the fact that a Tiger can turn on the spot isn't in and so on...
Most of all with the short ranges, little cover and small room for maneuvering, tank combat will always be a "fun addition" but never an area where RO will really show its potential... that's why I hope for a massive increase in infantry maps and don't bother about the tanks too much.
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What? Upgraded armor?
Do remember that the game has some issues with angled armor and the IS2 still has 120mm 30/60 deg. (upper/lower front). At short ranges the IS2 can be penetrated by almost all the Axis tank in game atm, as they should, thats why cities are a no-no zone for tanks.
IMHO the largest share of whining about the tanks (particularly axis tank weakness) come from inexperienced tankers. Almost every tank I face just freezes there and shoots. One time I managed to kill 5-6 axis tanks in BDJ from behind (very short range, all of them were in the same place), none of them even turned around. 3 of them were Tigers
Some issues is an understatement, the IS2 is an impenetrable fortress when it is angled, distance does not even really matter. Thus, the IS2 in the game has some special armour making it so effective if it is angled even a bit and I would call it upgraded.
And cut the crap about bad tankers, these days everyone knows how to angle and skill does not effect penetration at all, playing against bot or bad players does not prove anything. The russian tanks just get an unfair advantage.
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O rly?
I dont know where you are playing, but almost 0% of the players I face do angling and the IS2 is far from unpenetrable fortress, flank it
rolleyes: ), you aren't supposed to face every single tank head-on. It's almost the same as Tigers vs T-34/76, you have to do something else than the old camp&shoot. Now the axis has to do it.The only unfair advantage I can see is the fact that the teams are rarely even.
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O rly?
I dont know where you are playing, but almost 0% of the players I face do angling and the IS2 is far from unpenetrable fortress, flank it
The only unfair advantage I can see is the fact that the teams are rarely even.
I have plenty of video evidence that even the Panther can't penetrate an angled IS2 at any range. It is absurd that you expect that an IS2 can just sit there taking hits without any effect and Panthers and Tigers must try flanking, which by the way does not work if the IS2 has any backup around or the IS2 driver turns to nullify your great flanking attempts.
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I do NOT expect "that an IS2 can just sit there taking hits". The goal should be upmost realism (as much as possible). But I do expect that people would do something else than stop&shoot..
A better example of the thing you are trying to say is T-34/85 vs Panther. It's not possible to penetrate Panther frontally atm(only with IS-2). Well, its pretty fruitless to continue this debate, I think that the facts are already pretty clear for people.
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Well, apart from the part about the Tiger, that is just about how most resources say it was in real life, isn't it?
Really the whole armor thing is screwed up, with angling being much too effective and... well... weird and random at times. Even if that gets fixed, don't expect any wonders. With the degree of simulation we get concerning tanks there will always be a slight pro-Russian bias.
I wouldn't go that far. I'd say that you WON'T see the "overwhelming superiority of the German armor" that a lot of people seem to want.
Ever check the reload times on a T34-76? They're LONG. Certainly by comparison with, say, the Pz III, Pz IV, and Stug III. Obviously not as long as the IS-2. I think that's supposed to be the "ergonomic" factor at work. But the whole "Boris! When was the last time you showered?" "I don't know, Mitya, when was the last time you brushed your teeth" feeling of a cramped turret probably can't be rendered any other way.
As for German optics, they absolutely are modelled in that German guns don't need to be re-sighted when you change the range, even on the earliest of their tanks. The main problem with optical superiority is that we don't have tank maps where the RANGE can come into play. All the official tank maps are "CQC" battles for tanks. All of them, Arad included. You JUST begin to see the superiority of German armor at about 1000m. Anything under that, especially later in the war, and you're getting into a much more even playing field.
Exactly. At least in terms of official maps, it's not the tank SYSTEM that's at fault (although there's definitely some shortcomings) but rather the maps that fail to take advantage of it.
Look, guys, if every single map was a close quarters map where the Russians had 75% of their team with PPSh-41s against a mix of German MG-42s, K98s, MP-40s, and the odd G-43 and STG44, you'd be saying the exact same thing "OMG. This game is SO Pro-Russian!!" No, it's not that the GAME is pro-russian, it's that the official engagements (under those circumstances) favor the Russians. Try fielding a team of 75% PPSh-41s on a long range map against the same German mix and suddenly it's a whole other ballgame.
Want to see the superiority of German tanks or at least a LOT more opportunity for players to use strategy and play to the strengths of the German armor? Pray that mappers start making 2-3km visibility maps.
The German armor was superior not because they drove invincible ubertanks that couldn't be killed except by a lightning bolt from Zeus himself, and could wink at enemy tanks and cause them to disintegrate. German armor was superior because it could engage AT LONGER RANGE than the enemy. The German optics in the game ARE better at long range -- we just never engage at long range. German armor is strong enough AND Russian guns are WEAK enough that at longer range you'll see a lot higher survivability of German tanks.
But when most tank engagements occur at between 400m and 600m, all those advantages disappear and you start seeing some of the weaknesses of the German armor -- like weak flank armor. Think about it. Put a Panther on a map with a 3000m max visibility going up against T-34-85s adn you're gonna see a lot of dead T-34-85s if they don't play smart. At long range the Panther can put the targeting reticle on the enemy, dial in, say, 1800m, and poof. No more enemy. By contrast, the Panther's front armor will show slight paint wear, but otherwise still be just fine when the T-34 shoots back from the same range. And angling? Why bother angling at THAT range if you're the Panther? All you do is present a bigger target and your armor will hold up just fine anyway.
As soon as the T-34s close in, though, the German design flaws start to pop up -- the Panther gets flanked and its weaker side armor ends up penetrated.
So consider all of this when folks start complaining about how it's not fair and why can't the Germans ever get a break, etc., etc. The germans are screwed not because their tanks ****, but because the MAPS don't play to their tanks' advantages whereas the Russians have fewer disadvantages at that range.
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I have always been wondering how we should use the longer draw distances.
1.The tank optics have only a small amount of zoom and at 2000 meters the enemy will be about the size of a pixel
2. The aiming is not very precise and hunting that one pixel will be impossible
3. The shells fly so slowly that you can just dodge them
4. An angled russian tank is nearly impervious to damage at 100 meters, I suspect they will be even more resilient at 2000.
1.The tank optics have only a small amount of zoom and at 2000 meters the enemy will be about the size of a pixel
2. The aiming is not very precise and hunting that one pixel will be impossible
3. The shells fly so slowly that you can just dodge them
4. An angled russian tank is nearly impervious to damage at 100 meters, I suspect they will be even more resilient at 2000.
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![[Mad_Murdock]](/data/avatars/s/9/9417.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
No offense to the uber german tank fanboys here, but can the whining please stop about the "angled russian tanks", look ive had 80% of my IS2 shells bounce from a panther at game ranges, i should be whining.
But on a serious note, i'm with the "its not the system, its the maps" camp here. Its something we just dont have at this point. For example, one solution would be zoomable tank sights, how bout it, add another position in the mousewheel view selection as a commander so instead of sights->cupola, it goes, reg.sights->zoom sights->cupola, withe the german sights realistically zooming farther. Now youre not hunting pixels anymore.
As for the slow shells, AB increased the speed to realistic levels, and i have yet to find a significant problem with hit detection, its no worse than the default. Besides, the PTRD rounds fly at realistic speed and I dont have problems with that.
Oh and lastly, if we get more maps like this(I'm starting to think its about time i got that SDK out of the closet and made one myself), i dont think the whining will stop from the german camp until it just becomes a clickfest for them and were all sitting in out disintegrated t34s wondering why the hell that tiger just winked at us.
But on a serious note, i'm with the "its not the system, its the maps" camp here. Its something we just dont have at this point. For example, one solution would be zoomable tank sights, how bout it, add another position in the mousewheel view selection as a commander so instead of sights->cupola, it goes, reg.sights->zoom sights->cupola, withe the german sights realistically zooming farther. Now youre not hunting pixels anymore.
As for the slow shells, AB increased the speed to realistic levels, and i have yet to find a significant problem with hit detection, its no worse than the default. Besides, the PTRD rounds fly at realistic speed and I dont have problems with that.
Oh and lastly, if we get more maps like this(I'm starting to think its about time i got that SDK out of the closet and made one myself), i dont think the whining will stop from the german camp until it just becomes a clickfest for them and were all sitting in out disintegrated t34s wondering why the hell that tiger just winked at us.
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Right there mate. I will always try to flank the IS2 when in a tank like a Panzer 4 ot Stug and aim for it's turret. Though I sometimes try to take it head-on if I get a Tiger or Panther.O rly?
I dont know where you are playing, but almost 0% of the players I face do angling and the IS2 is far from unpenetrable fortress, flank it
The only unfair advantage I can see is the fact that the teams are rarely even.
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The armour in my opinion is severely broken. I mean honestly how ****ed is the system when you are in a Tiger I on black day and a shot from a T34/76 600m away ricochets off your front plate but somehow also destroys your goddamn engine!!!!
I have been against the introduction of tanks into RO since it was being discussed in the mod days, and it's for this very reason, they just cannot be pulled off realistically within the limits of the engine. Testament to this is the many problems and innacuracies we are seeing right now.
Another really annoying one is the T60, seriously try to play hedgehog in the PIII against anyone who has a semblance of skill in the T60 and you'll find yourself happily being destroyd at all angles within 3 to 8 shots. Funny I can load a game of CMBB (which has an excellent and very realistic armour system) with a T60 vs a PIII and I know who's going to win.
I just don't think it can be done realistically, oh and also range just doesn't come into play like you guys are saying. Whether it is at 400m or over a 1000m because of the 100% accuracy of the tanks with a little gunnery skill my T34 will hit your PIV G and destroy it more easily than you can destroy me, regardless.
I have been against the introduction of tanks into RO since it was being discussed in the mod days, and it's for this very reason, they just cannot be pulled off realistically within the limits of the engine. Testament to this is the many problems and innacuracies we are seeing right now.
Another really annoying one is the T60, seriously try to play hedgehog in the PIII against anyone who has a semblance of skill in the T60 and you'll find yourself happily being destroyd at all angles within 3 to 8 shots. Funny I can load a game of CMBB (which has an excellent and very realistic armour system) with a T60 vs a PIII and I know who's going to win.
I just don't think it can be done realistically, oh and also range just doesn't come into play like you guys are saying. Whether it is at 400m or over a 1000m because of the 100% accuracy of the tanks with a little gunnery skill my T34 will hit your PIV G and destroy it more easily than you can destroy me, regardless.
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The game is how it is, learn to play it better. Find those shot traps in angled t-34, learn to use angled hulldown pzIV's, fire one shot and move to cover, reload come from different angle to shoot.
All the tank maps have wide space to maneuver, move to cover and try from different angle. Most problems like these come from playing in public, where peole don't play as a team and it's almost impossible to play in perfect harmony there
In clan battles, the problems don't show that much if people know how to move and shoot, use flanking maneuvers with teamplay? IS2 angled and t-34's covering it, kill all those pesky t-34's first and flank the IS2, IS2 slow fire rate can be used against it, just try to survive the one shot and u can flank it easily, if it's handled by 1 crewman. Or just pound the IS2 to submission with HE ammo from 3 german tanks, all tanks need to fire only 2-3 shots and pum there it goes and even less if 1 tank can fire from good spot that IS2 isn't angled perfectly.
Panther can go easily head to head against IS2. Just angle against IS2 and put your frontal armour against t-34's and u can just laugh and kill them. And if u play smart u don't just sit in one place getting shot at, atleast get in 1v1 duels only using cover against other tanks.
K
All the tank maps have wide space to maneuver, move to cover and try from different angle. Most problems like these come from playing in public, where peole don't play as a team and it's almost impossible to play in perfect harmony there
In clan battles, the problems don't show that much if people know how to move and shoot, use flanking maneuvers with teamplay? IS2 angled and t-34's covering it, kill all those pesky t-34's first and flank the IS2, IS2 slow fire rate can be used against it, just try to survive the one shot and u can flank it easily, if it's handled by 1 crewman. Or just pound the IS2 to submission with HE ammo from 3 german tanks, all tanks need to fire only 2-3 shots and pum there it goes and even less if 1 tank can fire from good spot that IS2 isn't angled perfectly.
Panther can go easily head to head against IS2. Just angle against IS2 and put your frontal armour against t-34's and u can just laugh and kill them. And if u play smart u don't just sit in one place getting shot at, atleast get in 1v1 duels only using cover against other tanks.
K
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