Squad RO Tactical Realism Community
- Thread starter Nagels
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The problem with that last thread is that the decisions weren't being made by consensus of our realism community, but rather sticking to rules conjured up years ago by the 3rdID (who are they? do they even play RO?). We've created a league for ourselves. EFO is run at every level by the clans who take part in it. We've obviously accepted our new allies/adversaries. It's only a formality that they're excluded elsewhere.
Tactical-Realism is about the thrill of battle. Exploitive maneuvers like bunny-hoping, ledging ...etc. kill the emersion of a game. When you're playing realistically, utilizing tactics. - There's an absorption you don't get else where.
The unit I lead is the 3rd Shock Army. We carry ranks ... the chain of command is important for coordinating maneuver, though everyone's input is requested and considered.
We carry names from the languages of the Soviet union (mine is Georgian) - that's just uber-cool
But really, take a step back and think about Realism. It's about the game-play. Not re-enacting the miserable lives of those who lived and fought in the war. The eastern front was concentration camps and penal battalions. Soldiers were shelled for hours. Some starved to death. Simulating that would be crude. The level of historical accuracy varies from clan to clan. However, no one is forcing their members to choose names of actual soldiers in the units they represent. Or limiting themselves to maps in which their name-sakes fought.
Personally, if we're in a match. I don't care what names I see when pressing F1 (there was no F1 in WW2 btw) as long as you provide the level of realism in game-play that this community is all about.
PS: RnG rules were mentioned as being difficult to moderate.
On our server: 3rd Shock Tactical-Realism (No BS), Server IP 209.246.142.208:7757
(I can't speak for anyone else). RnG is vector acceleration while firing an automatic weapon. Meaning you can hip-shoot. You can hip-shoot while walking/sprinting. (running as you're gunning) But you can not* change direction. It's easy to tell if some one is zigzagging or making loops, while firing their weapon ...and that's not realistic because IRL the inertia of the weapon would slow you down when changing direction.
PS #2: Had a hell of a time playing with the FJG members who raided the server today. Come back whenever. Uber-cool tags are optional.
Tactical-Realism is about the thrill of battle. Exploitive maneuvers like bunny-hoping, ledging ...etc. kill the emersion of a game. When you're playing realistically, utilizing tactics. - There's an absorption you don't get else where.
The unit I lead is the 3rd Shock Army. We carry ranks ... the chain of command is important for coordinating maneuver, though everyone's input is requested and considered.
We carry names from the languages of the Soviet union (mine is Georgian) - that's just uber-cool
But really, take a step back and think about Realism. It's about the game-play. Not re-enacting the miserable lives of those who lived and fought in the war. The eastern front was concentration camps and penal battalions. Soldiers were shelled for hours. Some starved to death. Simulating that would be crude. The level of historical accuracy varies from clan to clan. However, no one is forcing their members to choose names of actual soldiers in the units they represent. Or limiting themselves to maps in which their name-sakes fought.
Personally, if we're in a match. I don't care what names I see when pressing F1 (there was no F1 in WW2 btw) as long as you provide the level of realism in game-play that this community is all about.
PS: RnG rules were mentioned as being difficult to moderate.
On our server: 3rd Shock Tactical-Realism (No BS), Server IP 209.246.142.208:7757
(I can't speak for anyone else). RnG is vector acceleration while firing an automatic weapon. Meaning you can hip-shoot. You can hip-shoot while walking/sprinting. (running as you're gunning) But you can not* change direction. It's easy to tell if some one is zigzagging or making loops, while firing their weapon ...and that's not realistic because IRL the inertia of the weapon would slow you down when changing direction.
PS #2: Had a hell of a time playing with the FJG members who raided the server today. Come back whenever. Uber-cool tags are optional.
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I still think the best weapon against run and gun is limited respawns and i know that because ive had one such game. Any other measures like making it impossible to turn is very unrealistic and gameplay ruining.
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IMO - the best weappon to fight RnG is if I catch someone in the 20th doing it during a realism scrim or match , I would forfit that game, and at a minmum make the offender run Orel, or if they had a bad attidute about it would be far worse on them. We make it clear the 20th has Zero tolerance for bad behavoir, including RnG, intentional TK TW, exploting.....
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A further suggestion.......
Each clans server run with a common denominator config. and mutators
Post your thoughts on this
Each clans server run with a common denominator config. and mutators
Post your thoughts on this
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i wonder if any of you guys can make mutators.
Basically whats needed is a delay mutator
For entering / Exeting / Switching positions inside tanks and vehicles. (stops the annoyance of the ba64 and the annoyance of tankers hopping out of their tank when a round is fired towards them. And will give a valid reason for team tanking you can still tank alone but switching position just takes a bit of time just like in real time it would have been.
And a mutator that can configure the Axis and Allied reinforcement time on a per map basis.
1 life total doesn't work on most maps it becomes plainly unbalanced usually towards the advantage of the defenders. Next to that alot of maps are quite big.
Generally speaking the reason ppl use 1 life is to get a fear of death by punishment aka you don't want to wait a long time respawning. if respawn times are around 5 minutes (yes 5) ppl will be more carefull. But the spawntimes need to be altered for attacking and defending team and are different on every map. This might be fun on some realism publics, but mostly in clan based gaming.
If ppl value their lifes they might run and gun less, and if they still do its not that realistic you just get shot and wait for 5 mins you'll stop using it.
If ppl value can't easily get new nades they can't instarespawn they will use them with more care and if they don't they play a long time without grenades.
I'm personally against forcing rules like not going out of your tank, no run and gun. Give people a reason to do so. Thats when you get real realism, remember we're about tactical realism not roleplaying. Try to make the game so that tactical realism will work the best to win it, instead of forcing all kind of gray rules that only lead to hatred and agony.
Change the game to realism, don't enforce weird rules.
Basically whats needed is a delay mutator
For entering / Exeting / Switching positions inside tanks and vehicles. (stops the annoyance of the ba64 and the annoyance of tankers hopping out of their tank when a round is fired towards them. And will give a valid reason for team tanking you can still tank alone but switching position just takes a bit of time just like in real time it would have been.
And a mutator that can configure the Axis and Allied reinforcement time on a per map basis.
1 life total doesn't work on most maps it becomes plainly unbalanced usually towards the advantage of the defenders. Next to that alot of maps are quite big.
Generally speaking the reason ppl use 1 life is to get a fear of death by punishment aka you don't want to wait a long time respawning. if respawn times are around 5 minutes (yes 5) ppl will be more carefull. But the spawntimes need to be altered for attacking and defending team and are different on every map. This might be fun on some realism publics, but mostly in clan based gaming.
If ppl value their lifes they might run and gun less, and if they still do its not that realistic you just get shot and wait for 5 mins you'll stop using it.
If ppl value can't easily get new nades they can't instarespawn they will use them with more care and if they don't they play a long time without grenades.
I'm personally against forcing rules like not going out of your tank, no run and gun. Give people a reason to do so. Thats when you get real realism, remember we're about tactical realism not roleplaying. Try to make the game so that tactical realism will work the best to win it, instead of forcing all kind of gray rules that only lead to hatred and agony.
Change the game to realism, don't enforce weird rules.
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If a mutator was available to alter the accuracy by degrees , run and gun/hipshoot= decreased accuracy.
Also newer weapon limits per map, make nades available randomly etc.
Anyone who's used WRM in COD2 will know the options that were available there for tweaking.
Can the same type of config be created for RO?
Also newer weapon limits per map, make nades available randomly etc.
Anyone who's used WRM in COD2 will know the options that were available there for tweaking.
Can the same type of config be created for RO?
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weapons don't suddenly become inaccurate if you hipshoot them and its alot harder than normal aiming already. Heck id say it would be more realistic if the recoil of smgs was lower than it is now
I think if you look at realism it would be more realistic if you had more nades
Yes but must find someone to do it
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Cant see how that would be Zet, eyesight/field of vision and hand eye co-ordination would dictate a more accurate shot with a weapon raised.
Again guys, lets have each clan interested put forward a representative.
The sooner that's done the sooner we can all get on with setting this up.
Short term goal would be to define the general guidelines, midterm goal would be setting up a league.
The general idea is each rep would discuss with their clan any proposals brought forward or to be brought forward.
The clans decisions and proposals would then be brought forward by their nominated rep to a meeting in either ts or ventrillo.
This gives each clan a voice in how TRC will be setup as well as ensuring mutual involvement in an or all aspects of progressing the community.
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Hey guys. Mostly everything I was gonna say has been said.
Personally I'd like to see this thread merged with the other Realism thread as to not confuse new guys. Just have separate listings for 'Tactical' and 'Historical' realism clans. Anyway seems like all the rules would be the standard set, 1 life per round, no nade spamming/no exessive hip shooting etc.
Personally I'd like to see the 1 life per round deal changed, at least for some maps. I mean face it, we can not game on maps like Berezenia. Maybe a system of a set waves of reinforcements should be in order. Say, once the axis cap the outposts then the allies retreat to the next objective, whoever dies can re spawn. Something like that perhaps?. Anyway I support what you guys are doing. If you need any help with servers or such, we would like to help.
Personally I'd like to see this thread merged with the other Realism thread as to not confuse new guys. Just have separate listings for 'Tactical' and 'Historical' realism clans. Anyway seems like all the rules would be the standard set, 1 life per round, no nade spamming/no exessive hip shooting etc.
Personally I'd like to see the 1 life per round deal changed, at least for some maps. I mean face it, we can not game on maps like Berezenia. Maybe a system of a set waves of reinforcements should be in order. Say, once the axis cap the outposts then the allies retreat to the next objective, whoever dies can re spawn. Something like that perhaps?. Anyway I support what you guys are doing. If you need any help with servers or such, we would like to help.
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A tactical-realism league was mentioned as a mid-term goal ...
We have that already. The EFO is a tactical-realism league run by and for its members. We've altered it for the current campaign as we did the one before that. There is a ventrillo/ts meeting of representatives where we vote on rules/changes. In our next campaign, we may be introducing a more realistic re-spawn for matches. The commander will decide when to call on his next string of reinforcements. They'll come say, 5 at a time. ...and the number, is of-coarse severely limited. The only thing stopping us is the fact that the spawn points change as the map is played, often putting reinforcements behind enemy lines. (IcM knows what I meen, we used the honor code to remedy that mess) To fix this some of our mapers in the 181st will be modifying the maps to where the spawn points don't change. The community is dynamic and best of all we don't have some lone admin/moderator making our decisions for us, or excluding anyone from a good time.
We have that already. The EFO is a tactical-realism league run by and for its members. We've altered it for the current campaign as we did the one before that. There is a ventrillo/ts meeting of representatives where we vote on rules/changes. In our next campaign, we may be introducing a more realistic re-spawn for matches. The commander will decide when to call on his next string of reinforcements. They'll come say, 5 at a time. ...and the number, is of-coarse severely limited. The only thing stopping us is the fact that the spawn points change as the map is played, often putting reinforcements behind enemy lines. (IcM knows what I meen, we used the honor code to remedy that mess) To fix this some of our mapers in the 181st will be modifying the maps to where the spawn points don't change. The community is dynamic and best of all we don't have some lone admin/moderator making our decisions for us, or excluding anyone from a good time.
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Weapons are currently by far more accurate if raised. Hipshooting is useless unless its really close range and at that ranges soldiers were trained to hipshoot or as its in ro actually just shouldered weapon.
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Yes the end user will be able to make a more accurate shot with the weapon raised together with something to look at aka ironsights. But its not that the weapon becomes more inaccurate if you bloody hipshoot. The weapon always stays thesame. The recoil is already more than it should be. Hipping IS harder than using the ironsight the problem at the moment seems more to some ppl that when not using ironsight the weapon feel easier to control because you'll look at where the bullets land and move to your target than when using ironsights and pulling the sights correctly down. Making the overall recoil lower probably makes people "whore the hipping less". Just look at rifles and stg aswell with those weapons people actually use sights alot more.
Seriously making weapons inaccurate at hipshooting is not what you want. If you want to make the game realism i'll stand by that you must tweak the game in such a way that people will use the old methods more. Not enforce ppl to use it by butchering the hipshooting. if you play with less respawn there aint any run and gunning, so thats not even a problem... People will look around corners before entering simply because they don't want to die because they will wait a looong time.
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Ehm, sry Zet but I dont get what you're saying mate.
Are you saying constant hipshooting is okay and should be allowed or are you making a reference to the current recoil settings of smgs?
Raise the recoil of the weapons......that way less people will hipshoot would be my take on it.
Respawnwise my take would be to increase the spawntimes significantly , not sure about the one life only concept tbh.
Again folks feel free to get involved constructively on all of this, it benefits everyone of us.
Are you saying constant hipshooting is okay and should be allowed or are you making a reference to the current recoil settings of smgs?
Raise the recoil of the weapons......that way less people will hipshoot would be my take on it.
Respawnwise my take would be to increase the spawntimes significantly , not sure about the one life only concept tbh.
Again folks feel free to get involved constructively on all of this, it benefits everyone of us.
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People should continue to hipshoot, the recoil should be lowered for realism purpose of the invididual weapon. You were talking about run and gun not hipshooting. People will be more carefull with less fast respawns and slowly advance behind corners and not run through buildings, and if they do that carelessness can end their lives pretty quick. The difference death matters now. So be happy if people run and gun because they will only die.
Change the setting so people will use the weapons realistically. In about all ranges we got in ro smgs should be alot better. Like in danzig from the langermarkt axis sniper building to the langermarkt allied sniper building is 100 meters at most. Most smg users you see in pubs got an effective range of say what 20 meters max? Usually after that i can just raise my ironsights with my rifle and take of a clear shot whithout being hit once. I know alot of people that can hit with smgs but 90% of the times in public games people cant. at the ranges of 20 meters and especially most of the times before that range like under 10 meters Is were you'll meet smgers most, you can't expect them to use ironsights at such a short distance. The field of view in this game is havily distorted so distances look 2 to 3 times more far away than they really are. But for alot of people that aren't good with SMG, they seem to miss as much using the ironsights as they would with hipping, unless proned. I know plenty of people that are accurate enough with smgs to be able to shoot people from around the siegessaule to the first allied spawn in koningsplatz. At those ranges afcourse you use ironsight.
With run and gunning i think of people running around spraying their SMGs at really large ranges. Sure it takes away the immersiveness factor maybe but you can't hit as accurate from the hip as you can from using ironsights.
If you change the spawntime ppl will play more carefull, and carefull playing is what will kill run and gun. Make those guns more inaccurate than it already is will make them even harder for newer players to use. They are already the hardest weapons to use effectively. Rifle is definately the easiest weapon in the game to learn and master.
Plz give me some proof that the hipshooting is waay to accurate right now, if you go for realism you should try to do it as realistically possible and try to get the balance in the end facets. The map, Respawn times, weapon Loadouts etc. Not by screwing up weapons to make them more balanced. Every weapon got its prime.
Change the setting so people will use the weapons realistically. In about all ranges we got in ro smgs should be alot better. Like in danzig from the langermarkt axis sniper building to the langermarkt allied sniper building is 100 meters at most. Most smg users you see in pubs got an effective range of say what 20 meters max? Usually after that i can just raise my ironsights with my rifle and take of a clear shot whithout being hit once. I know alot of people that can hit with smgs but 90% of the times in public games people cant. at the ranges of 20 meters and especially most of the times before that range like under 10 meters Is were you'll meet smgers most, you can't expect them to use ironsights at such a short distance. The field of view in this game is havily distorted so distances look 2 to 3 times more far away than they really are. But for alot of people that aren't good with SMG, they seem to miss as much using the ironsights as they would with hipping, unless proned. I know plenty of people that are accurate enough with smgs to be able to shoot people from around the siegessaule to the first allied spawn in koningsplatz. At those ranges afcourse you use ironsight.
With run and gunning i think of people running around spraying their SMGs at really large ranges. Sure it takes away the immersiveness factor maybe but you can't hit as accurate from the hip as you can from using ironsights.
If you change the spawntime ppl will play more carefull, and carefull playing is what will kill run and gun. Make those guns more inaccurate than it already is will make them even harder for newer players to use. They are already the hardest weapons to use effectively. Rifle is definately the easiest weapon in the game to learn and master.
Plz give me some proof that the hipshooting is waay to accurate right now, if you go for realism you should try to do it as realistically possible and try to get the balance in the end facets. The map, Respawn times, weapon Loadouts etc. Not by screwing up weapons to make them more balanced. Every weapon got its prime.
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Hipshooting needs to be defined for the sake of clarity so Zet.
So in essence taking a shot from the hip is allowable provided its not being done in a zig zag fashion.
This we'll term as a hipshot.
Moving from side to side (zig zagging) while shooting from the hip is termed as run and gun.
So in essence taking a shot from the hip is allowable provided its not being done in a zig zag fashion.
This we'll term as a hipshot.
Moving from side to side (zig zagging) while shooting from the hip is termed as run and gun.
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As for the ongoing debate for hip shooting I suggest it only be allowed when you are surprised by a enemy at close range such as in a building or trench, as this is where it will be most likely be used during real world situations. ( Sidearm hip shooting is taught to the military and police but only from a distance of 3 yards. as a defensive tactic, as a side arm is considered a defensive weapon not offensive ) Shooting from the hip use to be taught for long guns in a close walking frontal assault, but only with the intent of keeping the enemy down behind cover, (as hip shooting is inaccurate and only waste ammo), but that tactic is suicidal in most cases, and is not taught ( in the US ) any longer.
The one life issue I feel is a valid realism concept but only during match or scrim play. Other than that it takes the fun out of the game, and who wants to sit and wait for a round to finish during non match/scrim play !
The following is just a bit of real world information, and is not intended as a suggested requirement for RO TR.
CQB ( Close Quarters Battle ) weapons handling techniques are taught for MOUT ( Military Operations on Urban Terrain ) in most cases by employing the weapon from the shoulder while walking and looking just above/over the sights , and the same above/over the sight technique applies to the sidearm also. ( Also where the weapon moves, the head moves also, at such close range point of aim is point of impact. ) CQB, MOUT is also taught to not only the Military but also to all US Police units not just SWAT.
Another area for TR consideration I feel should be addressed is the manning of tanks during match/scrim play. All tanks should be manned by a full crew as it would be in real world scenarios.
The one life issue I feel is a valid realism concept but only during match or scrim play. Other than that it takes the fun out of the game, and who wants to sit and wait for a round to finish during non match/scrim play !
The following is just a bit of real world information, and is not intended as a suggested requirement for RO TR.
CQB ( Close Quarters Battle ) weapons handling techniques are taught for MOUT ( Military Operations on Urban Terrain ) in most cases by employing the weapon from the shoulder while walking and looking just above/over the sights , and the same above/over the sight technique applies to the sidearm also. ( Also where the weapon moves, the head moves also, at such close range point of aim is point of impact. ) CQB, MOUT is also taught to not only the Military but also to all US Police units not just SWAT.
Another area for TR consideration I feel should be addressed is the manning of tanks during match/scrim play. All tanks should be manned by a full crew as it would be in real world scenarios.
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