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Level Design tHE rOAD TO OREL FINAL MAP THREAD BY THE AUTHOR

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#121
karl stiner said:
hehe the other night i seen 2 of my panthers get taken out from the front they got to close to the t34/ 85s, also its not the germans fault for making better tanks:p
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Panther can only be penetrated frontally by the T34/85 at about 70meters or below which is how all tanks behave when shot at point blank range. All Russian tanks on the other hand (except the IS2) can be penetrated frontally by every German tank. IS2 can be penetrated frontally by every German tank except the PzIII & PzIV f1, (sometimes the PzIII can still penetrate the IS2 though if hit in the right spot) Did I mention all this can be done even at 1000 meters? The KV-1S "heavy tank" is a deathtrap and can be obliterated by every single German tank (including the PzIV f1). The IS2 is immune frontally to only 2 German tanks. The Panther is immune frontally to 5 Russian tanks. The Tiger is immune frontally to 4 Russian tanks. So Germans really don't have much to complain about (other than the PzIII's artificially weak armor).
 
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#122
Panther can be frontally penetrated by t34/85 at ranges over 200m. But most of the shots just bounce, but it's possible to damage panther by 85mm. Sometimes u even damage panther when the shot bounce from the hull, but most times Panther is totally immune to t34/85...

Panther is the ultimate tank in RO. It has been proven too many times.

About IS2 it can be destroyed from 1000m by every german tank but ivF1. PzIII shooting APCR ammo destroys anything and I mean everything...
 
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#123
Slashbot_427 said:
Well thats what Im battling ( the spawns). The forward spawns are great at reducing the driving times but they defeat the purpose of the bridges.
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I totally understand your desire to include the bridges as a tactical advantage from the get go but having the spawns so far apart seriously undermines it. The action is just too far away to make much of a difference which bridge you take. Only when the action is close to home do bridges seriously enter into the tactical equation. Unfortunately, usually by this time they are already lying on the bottom of the riverbed. From playing this map WAY TOO MUCH, Ive noticed that bridges only come into play when one team is closing on the final one or two objectives. The current spawn makes it very difficult for a team to defend there bridges. So, by the time that you really are needing some water crossing options they are long gone. This is why the bridge bottleneck arty tactic is used to win 99.8% of the time. Letting a team spawn out infront of the bridges they are supposed to protect will give them a better chance of actually defending them.

If you want bridges to be more tactically important in the game then you need to figure out a way for them to be around when a team actually needs them. And the best way to do that is give teams a better chance of defending them.

I hope you dont mind my constructivism. I really enjoy the map and I just want it to get better.
 
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#124
IconoclastDX said:
I totally understand your desire to include the bridges as a tactical advantage from the get go but having the spawns so far apart seriously undermines it. The action is just too far away to make much of a difference which bridge you take. Only when the action is close to home do bridges seriously enter into the tactical equation. Unfortunately, usually by this time they are already lying on the bottom of the riverbed. From playing this map WAY TOO MUCH, Ive noticed that bridges only come into play when one team is closing on the final one or two objectives. The current spawn makes it very difficult for a team to defend there bridges. So, by the time that you really are needing some water crossing options they are long gone. This is why the bridge bottleneck arty tactic is used to win 99.8% of the time. Letting a team spawn out infront of the bridges they are supposed to protect will give them a better chance of actually defending them.

If you want bridges to be more tactically important in the game then you need to figure out a way for them to be around when a team actually needs them. And the best way to do that is give teams a better chance of defending them.

I hope you dont mind my constructivism. I really enjoy the map and I just want it to get better.
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yea well you will get AT guns to defend your bridges soon, what will the Germans get a kick in the teeth:p ohh well give me and extra tiger or panther and i will deal with them :p;)
 
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#125
Slashbot_427 said:
Well thats what Im battling ( the spawns). The forward spawns are great at reducing the driving times but they defeat the purpose of the bridges.

As it is now, with the back spawns as a starting point, all four bridges are in play at the start so that there are a variety of options as to where to go. If I made the first spawns at the north and south bridges then by the time one team has captured enough ground to drive the other team back to the rear spawn, the bridges will probably be blown. The losing team will then only have that one bridge to drive across, effectively making the whole river/bridge system obsolete.

I understand that the long drives are frustrating for some ppl, its frustrating for me too, sometimes. What I am doing in the final version is to have both teams spawn at the rear spawns, with no objectives captured as it is now. But I have split the spawns so that each side spawns in two locations at once at the rear spawn, one half on the east and on half on the west. This will bring into play the bridges more, as everyone will start on the flanks a bit, instead of evryone rushing north/south bridges. There is also a new secret ford in the river for each team. try to find it! Obviously it cant be blown.

Once the three (lowland) objectives are captured (eg for germans its North Bridge, East Field, and a new North Heights Objective- similar for soviets) the spawn will change to the north Bridge spawn. From there the heights need to be captured. If a side holds the 3 Lowland and 3 Heights Objectives then a new spawn will activate just on the attacking teams side of the hieghts. So for a lot of the map the north/ south bridge spawns will be active. The East/West Fields are a bit of a thorn-in-the-side because if somone sneaks around and caps it then the affected team can potentially get their spawn set back from the heights to the rear with one cap. Watch out for the flanks!!

I understand that its the wrong type of spawn system for a head to head, no-defenders map but it works for this map.
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How about making the last cap point on the other side of the bridges? For example, splitting the south lake objective into two, one on each side of the river. If the axis team attacks, they can take out the bridges and hold the enemy back for an easy cap of the first part of south lake (the village), but then they will get into trouble when they only have one bridge to get over to the other side.
 
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#126
Very good idea Arete! The best, when I think about it, that would be extemely hard to cap the last objective, if either side has destroyed all the bridges. This idea should make the spawn for the side who is winning closer to the last objective, if that isn't changed it will be impossible to end the map.

But this idea would make the bridges very important and would make it to people to think will they destroy all bridges or not?

Please finish the map, for us to play it.
 
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#127
Slashbot_427 said:
Im moving house now and wont have time to really work on orel til January
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Its January:D Any news?



(To the devs: What do you want me to pay cash or something so I can post without being censored? Why was I even banned without warning to begin with? Was it my Merry Christmas sig? Are you atheists or something?
The only thing you are accomplishing with your immature behavior is driving away a potential buyer of any future games that your company might make)
 
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#128
Well theres lots of news. I moved house, computer died, got new hard drive and windows XP, went away for christmas, ordered a new ADSL 2+ Modem, got back from holidays, had a big one new years eve, finally got my internet back on, Now I'm back at work- boooo... Oh the map... Well Ive ditched it and Im starting another one.... Only kidding.. Ill be finishing it off ASAP, it hasn't progressed from before Christmas tho. Ive really only got to add a bit more eye candy to it and adjust the overall lighting etc Happy new year everyone. Have a great 2007. ( the year of the Dog and U3 engine)
 
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#129
Really, the current state of Orel drives me insane which is why I stopped tanking altogether until it's done. I don't bother with the official tank maps as they are just far too small for quality tank combat. Let it be known my tanking skills are taking a hit because of Slashbot!!! BTW I don't care if you increase the view distance it's 100% fine the way it is IMO.
 
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#130
Slashbot_427 said:
Well theres lots of news. I moved house, computer died, got new hard drive and windows XP, went away for christmas, ordered a new ADSL 2+ Modem, got back from holidays, had a big one new years eve, finally got my internet back on, Now I'm back at work- boooo... Oh the map... Well Ive ditched it and Im starting another one.... Only kidding.. Ill be finishing it off ASAP, it hasn't progressed from before Christmas tho. Ive really only got to add a bit more eye candy to it and adjust the overall lighting etc Happy new year everyone. Have a great 2007. ( the year of the Dog and U3 engine)
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let me know if you are making a new one :p i like to have some input as i only play tank maps :) and happy new year TO YOU, your map did make a big impact on many tank players:cool:
 
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#133
hey slashbot, not to throw a stick in your party here, but i find orel to be really fun and really annoying. for some reason the germans always have an abundance of tanks in spawn while the russians ALWAYS run out, such really wasent the case in ww2. it would be nice if you could edit the tank loadout by giving the germans a few less tanks, and by doubeling the ammount of russian tanks. to balance that out, give the germans a full tiger or panther unit dependign on the map which should be 4 tigers or 4 panthers. it would also be nice of you could get that armor penetration mod to work with your map and make it a standard part of the map.

just my 2 cents, great map by the way..
 
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#134
Colt .45 killer said:
hey slashbot, not to throw a stick in your party here, but i find orel to be really fun and really annoying. for some reason the germans always have an abundance of tanks in spawn while the russians ALWAYS run out, such really wasent the case in ww2. it would be nice if you could edit the tank loadout by giving the germans a few less tanks, and by doubeling the ammount of russian tanks. to balance that out, give the germans a full tiger or panther unit dependign on the map which should be 4 tigers or 4 panthers. it would also be nice of you could get that armor penetration mod to work with your map and make it a standard part of the map.

just my 2 cents, great map by the way..
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Why haven't I seen that occur on the latest Orel??? The October Update version seems to play very nicely.

Wait..... why not TRIPLE the amount of tanks the Russians get and give the Germans three Panzer III's... hahahahahaha I know that's ridiculous. :eek:


Everyone wants a biased map at one time or another. :D

Slashbot please, stick to your original concept and design please don't allow yourself to be dissuaded from the original ideas and thoughts. ;)
 
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#135
I think there is something wrong with russian tanks' spawn time, though. I spent about from 5 to 10 minutes yesterday at the spawn, because there were no tanks. And they were not taken, they just didn't respawn for a long time. About 5 of my teamates were standing right next to me too..
But I don't ask to give Russians more tanks, or Germans less and worse - no, leave it as it is now, just pls check the properties for the respawn time.
BTW, I find 88vs76 far more entertaining than the original one (note - I almost always play as Russian)
 
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#139
Mike_Nomad said:
Why haven't I seen that occur on the latest Orel??? The October Update version seems to play very nicely.

Wait..... why not TRIPLE the amount of tanks the Russians get and give the Germans three Panzer III's... hahahahahaha I know that's ridiculous. :eek:


Everyone wants a biased map at one time or another. :D

Slashbot please, stick to your original concept and design please don't allow yourself to be dissuaded from the original ideas and thoughts. ;)
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so when does the suggested full fighting group of 4 tigers or 4 panthers make that 3 panzer 3's? an if there was an armor pen mut on the map it would ballance it out as it should have been.
 
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#140
Quietus said:
..... one last thing I don't know if it's already been mentioned but make sure to give players points for blowing up bridges that way people know you're helping and people will have incentive to blow them and not just forget about them cause "you don't get points". As it is now I blow all 3 German bridges for instance and get zero points for my efforts most team members think you're just picking your ass and not helping the team unless you inform them.....
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Good Idea. How do I do it?

Another thing.. Im having a brain explosion trying to get an effective water shader/material for the river. Currently I dont want the water to be enterable at all, so I have made one large MineVolume that sits under the level so that when a tank or infantry enters the water it blow in about 3 seconds. I tried WaterVolumes but I couldnt get them to blow tanks, only infantry, so you could drive around forever under water. The water is a BSP sheet slightly above this with a crappy translucent texture on it. What I want is a panning almost opaque texture for the the river bits and a clearer non-panning texture with cubemaps (reflections) for the lakes. I have followed the tutorials on Unrealwiki /UDN but frankly theyre not very clear.

Any help would be great. ( FlashPanHunter -I'm looking at you - re Kolno ;))

PS I have enough skills to make things like the indvidual water texures and cube maps etc but what Im really after is how to combine them in UED3.
 
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