K-31 for x-mas

[[5.SS]Strother]

I'm going to get a k-31 for xmas, my moms friend's husband is a gun dealer and he is going to hook me up, but he says the ammo is going to be a bit tough to get. I can't wait, it's such a beautiful and unique rifle. I hope to take it deer hunting next season!

 

[Tak]

Umm...k?


Nice choice man, they're great rifles Sexy too. The ammo isn't *too* bad priced, considering that the run of the mill surplus stuff is match grade or damn close to it.​

 

[Manstein]

I think you'll be happy, I've heard great things about K31's, and have long wanted one myself

you can get reasonably priced ammo at aimsurplus.com

 

[all_purpose_box]

sounds sweet. my parents wont sign for anymore guns for me.1 1/2 more years and ill get all the rifles i want. i did ask for a holster for my springfield XD though

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

Yeah it's suprisingly cheap as well. Hopefully I have the soldiers information in the butt. .......lol that didn't come out right!

The guy we are getting it off of tried to convince my mother and I to get one of his two million K98s, but they are 4 times as much and they arn't as unique imo. I'm excited to take it to the range and see how she does.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

I don't see what the big fascination is with "collecting" K31s. They are fine rifles, but have no historical value or significance. That won't stop me from getting one, but that's only because I've already got a handful of rifles used in WWII.

 

[User Name]

K31 don't have any war history. They do have their own unique history. How many rifles can you buy that are original, non-refurbished, and have the original users name, DOB, and address attached to them?

They are a unique design, very accurate, and finely produced. I think someone estimated that it would cost a couple thousand dollars to produce them commercially today. I was able to get three for a grand total of $270 plus shipping.

 

[Ralfst3r]

Is that with the straight bolting action?

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Is that with the straight bolting action?

Yes.

K31 don't have any war history. They do have their own unique history. How many rifles can you buy that are original, non-refurbished, and have the original users name, DOB, and address attached to them?

Rifles that are original and non-refurbished can be found by any manufacturer not involved in a conflict or war/post-war. Original owner is another story. Beyond the K31s lack of historical value of not being used in a conflict, and aside from being good rifles, that is the only thing going for it.

 

[User Name]

Yes.



Rifles that are original and non-refurbished can be found by any manufacturer not involved in a conflict or war/post-war. Original owner is another story. Beyond the K31s lack of historical value of not being used in a conflict, and aside from being good rifles, that is the only thing going for it.

Do you have a K31? Because there is a lot more going for them than a name tag. You'd know that if you did.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

I just don't know why a rifle needs historical value? It's just a very unique proficient rifle with its own story that isn't tainted by the killing of millions.

Have you actually seen the rifle in person? The swiss markings are very nice and it's a rifle that can stand up to the cold of the Alps, and trust me, I've been to the Alps it's plenty demanding.

Now if I were starting up a ww2 gun collection, yeah I would go with guns that have historical value, but I just want a neat rifle that I can shoot and take hunting. This is also a cheap rifle on which I can base my collection on.

 

[engineer]

Indeed, the Swiss never entered the war, but Gen. Henri Guisan made it quite clear that he would not roll over in case of a German attack on Switzerland. These K31s probably went through constant military maneuvers and drills throughout WW2 in prepration for a German assault, which would have been defended by use of "rehearsed" Guerilla warfare for the most part.

While Germany never did attack Switzerland, these rifles stood ready in case such a thing happened. These rifles and their owners were kept in tip-top shape, ready to take the fight to the German aggressors at a moment's notice.

They do have war history, you're just not looking hard enough.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

They do have war history, you're just not looking hard enough.

They do not have war history and don't make it seem like they do.

I just don't know why a rifle needs historical value?

A rifle that has been through a conflict such as WWII is immensely more important to me than one that was never involved. What did K31s do to make history? Defend the great chocolate makers from an attack for Jewish gold interest that never came?

It's just a very unique proficient rifle with its own story that isn't tainted by the killing of millions.

Every rifle has a story. I think knowing where a russian-capture k98 or mosin-nagant 91/30 have been during the war would be better to know than a K31 that never saw use in the line of duty.

Have you actually seen the rifle in person? The swiss markings are very nice and it's a rifle that can stand up to the cold of the Alps, and trust me, I've been to the Alps it's plenty demanding.

I've never seen a K31, but I know it's a nice rifle. I know plenty about its stories of accuracy and dependability.

Do you have a K31? Because there is a lot more going for them than a name tag. You'd know that if you did.

It is a good, accurate rifle with a tag from the original soldier who owned it, and uses expensive ammo.

Now if I were starting up a ww2 gun collection, yeah I would go with guns that have historical value, but I just want a neat rifle that I can shoot and take hunting. This is also a cheap rifle on which I can base my collection on.

I've started my WWII collection so I'm working on that. I'm still debating whether or not to get a K31 or M39, or save for both. Depends on what's available. Make no mistake, K31s are nice rifles; they just have no history. I don't understand Strother's reasoning for K31s being more unique and "interesting" than any kind of Nazi Mauser. That just strikes me as really, really...ignorant.

 

[User Name]

No, a Nagant revolver uses expensive ammo.

The ammunition for a K31 may be more expensive. It's certainly a lot cheaper to buy a case of 7.62x54r or 8mm. However, The ammunition you are buying is match grade stuff, and it is non-corrosive. These rifles, with surplus ammunition, are capable of 1.5" or less groups. How many other surplus rifles can do that? An M39 is capable of such accuracy, but usually only with handloads. Most people are not going to get that kind of accuracy out of them with surplus.

Commercial ammunition for 7.62x54r is about the same price as commercial ammunition for 7.5 Swiss. There is a one dollar differance on AIM's site.

As for them being unique compared to a German Mauser? They are! Mausers are everywhere. Almost every nation adopted the Mauser bolt system. Even the United States in modified form. There are only three straight pull bolt actions I know of, and none of them are alike.

The only reason these rifles don't have a war record is because Hilter chose not to attack Switzerland. He had his forces stretched out and couldn't afford the new front. Although he did have plans to invade after the rest of Europe was under his control. The Swiss had all the border bridges and check-points rigged with explosives. Ready for demolition if they were ever invaded.

Just because a rifle was not on a battlefield. It doesn't negate it's historical value. There were plenty of Mauser's and Mosin's that never saw a battlefield. Most M44's were still in crates waiting to be shipped out when the war ended.

I honestly think your opinion would change if you had a K31.

Edit: Also, a K31 is your best bet in finding out the real history of any specific surplus rifle. If your K31 still has it's service tag. You can find the owner in Switzerland, (if he is still alive) and he can tell you exactly what that rifle and he himself went through.

One reply: "Who would have thought that my gun, which was assigned to me and which I wished would have jumped in a lake during my trainings on marches, would end up in America! That gun was assigned to me with bayonet in 1954 during basic training and I was in charge of it till my dismissal in 1977. I could have kept it, if I had enrolled me to carry on with unofficial shooting. I hope you have lots of fun with your hobby and I wish you a good eye and a calm hand.

Oh, and BTW, your not god. He wouldn't have had to edit his post.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

Wow venkman, you are a complete extremist. You get so upset about it jeez.

I just think it's a unique rifle with its own history, who the hell cares if it didn't kill people. It's just a beautifull, one of a kind rifle, and they arn't that well known. I just don't want to spend another 300 bucks on a rifle that everyone has, and besides my uncle (who served in ww2) has the rifle and I might be able to get it from him.

 

[{YBBS}Sage]

The ammo for a K31 isn't that expensive. It's available fairly reasonable surplus (still) or commercially. It's expensive compared to something chambered in 7.62x54R or 7.62x39 maybe, but not really if you compare to a hunting or target rifle.

If you don't like the price of the ammo, you can always start reloading. Work at it, and expect accuracy to get better.

I REALLY want a K31. Have to convince the wife that I'm not "going overboard" on gun buying, though... Four just is NOT enough. Forty might be close...

FWIW, I'm less concerned with the history of a rifle than I am shooting the thing. The history is just kinda icing on the cake.

Congrats on the new toy, Strother.

 

[Manstein]

I would love to have a K31, but it just isn't at the top of my list atm, I'll probably buy rifles that saw combat in WW2 first

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

However, The ammunition you are buying is match grade stuff, and it is non-corrosive. These rifles, with surplus ammunition, are capable of 1.5" or less groups. How many other surplus rifles can do that? An M39 is capable of such accuracy, but usually only with handloads. Most people are not going to get that kind of accuracy out of them with surplus.

Corrosive/non-corrosive does not make a difference to me. I clean my rifles all the same whenever I come home from the rifle range. Any surplus rifle with a decent bore (and crown) and a decent shooter (not myself), and designed for accuracy, is capable of good groups. A 91/30 can get very good groups, as can a Mauser.

Commercial ammunition for 7.62x54r is about the same price as commercial ammunition for 7.5 Swiss. There is a one dollar differance on AIM's site.

$10-11 bucks for 20 rounds. I can't afford that out of my pocket, buying 100 rounds for $50. It does not last long enough to warrant me going through cash like that.

As for them being unique compared to a German Mauser? They are! Mausers are everywhere. Almost every nation adopted the Mauser bolt system. Even the United States in modified form. There are only three straight pull bolt actions I know of, and none of them are alike.

I've never heard of Mausers not being unique because they are everywhere. They offer a chance to own a rifle used by the Germans against the Russians in the invasion of the Soviet Union. Of the limited K31s there are, none of them can attest to that.

The only reason these rifles don't have a war record is because Hilter chose not to attack Switzerland. He had his forces stretched out and couldn't afford the new front. Although he did have plans to invade after the rest of Europe was under his control. The Swiss had all the border bridges and check-points rigged with explosives. Ready for demolition if they were ever invaded.

Attacking Switzerland would have accomplished nothing. Beyond mounting an assault in the Alps, they were already holding looted gold for the Nazis. He also had plans to invade the rest of the world once he was under control. So in that aspect, every single rifle 'would've had a war record'.

Just because a rifle was not on a battlefield. It doesn't negate it's historical value. There were plenty of Mauser's and Mosin's that never saw a battlefield. Most M44's were still in crates waiting to be shipped out when the war ended.

Mausers and Mosins were manufactured during WWII for their use in WWII. A rifle used in combat holds more historical value than a rifle that was not. Otherwise why not get reproductions Of M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, etc?

I honestly think your opinion would change if you had a K31.

Doubtful. I can barely affording shooting the stuff I already have. A K31 would be a safe queen, and I don't want that.

Wow venkman, you are a complete extremist. You get so upset about it jeez.

I just think it's a unique rifle with its own history, who the hell cares if it didn't kill people. It's just a beautifull, one of a kind rifle, and they arn't that well known. I just don't want to spend another 300 bucks on a rifle that everyone has, and besides my uncle (who served in ww2) has the rifle and I might be able to get it from him.

I'm not "upset". I view Nazi Mausers as being more important than Swiss K31s because of the nature of their history.

The ammo for a K31 isn't that expensive. It's available fairly reasonable surplus (still) or commercially. It's expensive compared to something chambered in 7.62x54R or 7.62x39 maybe, but not really if you compare to a hunting or target rifle.

If you don't like the price of the ammo, you can always start reloading. Work at it, and expect accuracy to get better.

That's probably what I am going to end up doing if I get a K31. The next two rifles I am going to be acquiring are either a K31 or M39. Depends on a few things. I might get both at the same time for the hell of it.

 

[User Name]

I think you just like to argue.

It doesn't matter what any of us say. Why would you even get a K31 if you feel it has no historical value? That seems to be the only reason you want rifles of this era. Get an M39, they are loaded with historical value. Leave the K31 for someone who might actually care about it, and use it. Instead of letting it rot in a safe, because they don't want to spend a little more on ammo.

All of these refurbs and RC Mausers have no historical value according to elite collectors. They are no longer the rifles they were in WWII. They are put together mix master parts guns. Their history was wiped away when they were rebuilt. I don't believe this, but there are those that do.

I'm not devaluing Mausers or Mosins. I have a few of both types. I just don't like to hear someone say that the K31 has no historical value. It does, it just wasn't in a war. If it had been in any other country in Europe, it would have been used.

It makes no differance to me if ammunition is corrosive or not either. I use plenty of surplus ammo in my Mosins, Mausers, Enfields, etc... The surplus for a K31 is still better built, and is more accurate out of the box, than just about any ammo out there. Including new commercial ammunition.

Most surplus types of rifles are capable of 1.5" groups. Some Mosins can, and some Mausers can. However, nearly every K31 is capable of this type of accuracy when you receive it. That can't be said for other military surplus rifles. Finn Mosins aside, Most military rifles were built to be battlefield accurate. 3" groups were good enough. This is not true for K31s. They were built to much higher standards, and deliver tighter groups. More consistently than any other type of surplus rifle.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

I think you just like to argue.

Not that I like to argue, I'm just set in my ways.

It doesn't matter what any of us say. Why would you even get a K31 if you feel it has no historical value? That seems to be the only reason you want rifles of this era

Without historical value, rifles are just pieces of wood and metal to me. Starting off my collection, I want some stuff with combat history in war first as a priority, then rifles from the era. A recent example of this is my SKS; not from the war, but from the era. I spent pretty much all I had getting it. Now I have to save up for either A) Ammo, B) M39/K31, C) M39 and K31. My budget is pretty limited bouncing job apps back and forth while working part time towards the end of the week.

Leave the K31 for someone who might actually care about it, and use it. Instead of letting it rot in a safe, because they don't want to spend a little more on ammo.

I never said I didn't care about K31s; you have completely misunderstood me. It's not a matter of me not willingly buying the expensive ammo for it; I simply cannot afford it.

I don't believe this, but there are those that do.

And they are entitled to be wrong, leaving more for us.

I just don't like to hear someone say that the K31 has no historical value. It does, it just wasn't in a war. If it had been in any other country in Europe, it would have been used.

What historical value does the K31 offer besides being accurate, having a straight-bolt, and a user tag in the buttstock?

The surplus for a K31 is still better built, and is more accurate out of the box, than just about any ammo out there. Including new commercial ammunition

So I've heard.

Most surplus types of rifles are capable of 1.5" groups. Some Mosins can, and some Mausers can. However, nearly every K31 is capable of this type of accuracy when you receive it. That can't be said for other military surplus rifles. Finn Mosins aside, Most military rifles were built to be battlefield accurate. 3" groups were good enough. This is not true for K31s. They were built to much higher standards, and deliver tighter groups. More consistently than any other type of surplus rifle.

The down time of manufacturing rifles, numbering in the millions, to be .5 inches to two inches more accurate at one hundred yards would be a logistical nightmare. How many K31s could be built in the case of war? Assuming the rate of production remained the same during it's service duration (not lightly, but I have no numbers), if Hitler had invaded Switzerland in 1944, there would have been ~301,000 K31s available. Compare that number to the 10 million K98s produced in the same time period. K31s had "higher standards" but consider the reasoning. It's not as if the Swiss didn't have the time to do it. Industrial production aside (obviously Germany had the war machine), giving 100 men rifles with two inch groupings (more or less) at 100 yards is better than giving 30 men rifles accurate to within one.