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Tactics Real Tankers support their infantry

kartasik

Grizzled Veteran
Jun 1, 2006
64
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In operations such as the Berlin map Tankers should always support their infantry. About two weeks ago I was in the role of infantry, with other guys trying to move past the ditch just beyond the open ruin. The Germans had us pinned down with both infantry and their Tiger. I noted that our two Russian tanks were no where to be seen - but I ignored that. We were making some headway. Then some punk Russian tanker came on the air and started to chide us infantry like we were his trash. Of course I informed him that a real tanker does not hang back at our Spawn line trying to support the infantry from 500 meters in the rear.

I am usually a tanker. My method is this: I find that infantry is really slow and so are most enemy tanks (thanks to their drivers). Even when the enemy infantry is making ready for panzerfaust attacks on my tank I find that if I keep moving in unpredictable ways that my rapid movement causes my enemy a great deal of confusion. Most of my infantry kills are run-overs simply because I burst in on them from directions and places they never dream. The same tactics work well against enemy tanks in areas where obstructions exist. I spend hours in practice running my tanks at full speed over every inch of maps where I can go. This has allowed me in battle to suddenly burst through very tight and seemingly impossible sqeezes. Once I did this where three enemy infantry were planning my death. I burst through a narrow spot between a tree and junk that they thought was impossible for me. They were still getting ready when I ran over two of them and jumped out to machinegun the third. But I was gone from the spot in a few seconds and again running the map.

This is how you know that you are a real tanker:
tankdriver.jpg

However at times it is sound logic to support the infantry from behind - it depends on how well one's infantry is performing. At such times a little driving ability and high ground can make the difference:
highgroundworks.jpg


But a tanker should not make a practice of being a home spawn warrior. Of course there are times such as in Orel or other maps where your duty would be to remain hidden and motionless. One hint - when you are about to take a map point and you know the enemy is about to come over a hill to stop you - if you have smoke - USE it. Lay it around your tank and stay put. Taking a tactical map point is often more important than racking up another tank kill.

Seek to surprise and use the best position for hardened defense such as this example where a tank can provide perfect enfilade fire across the enemy’s route of egress from their spawn.

enfiladefire.jpg
 
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Oh and

Oh and

Oh and you should be about as good driving backwards across hard ground as you are going forward. Obviously going in reverse requires a good memory of what the lay of the ground is. Halftrack drivers should be able to do all this too. Learn the maps - practice every hard point over and over until you never get stuck on ditchs, on hills or water ways. Make the vehicle like your own body. Live it - breath it.

The Panzer Tiger Captain named Otto Carius (who knocked out 150+ Russian tanks) made it plain that a tanker should nearly always be unbuttoned. The Russians were trained to stay buttoned up. He ran circles around them. If you are a driver you should be unbuttoned most of the time.

In tank combats more often than not the enemy tanks should rarely know where your tank is, how it got there, and how the heck you shot 'em in the back from pointblank range.
surprise.jpg


Oh, and when possible tankers should stop and load up on Panzerfausts - you never want to give up just because you got a tank shot out from under you! Of course you have to know when its time to bail. But I have caught many tanks dead to rights as they drive up to inspect my burning tank.

But to do all these things - such as below - requires rapid, flawless, surprising movements built of long practice and backed up by good infantry support.

Surprise Mr. Tiger!

surprise2.jpg
 
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The key is practice - lots of it

The key is practice - lots of it

and the other key is it only works a few times because the enemy learns your method in about 3 attacks. So it has to be delivered at the critical time. I have often taken all the points on the map except for the last one by the steps of the Reichstag, only to fail because our infantry is hunkered down still by the first objective playing cowboys and indians Roy Roger's style - bang bang - rather than bravely advancing to hold the areas we already captured.

In situations where the infantry is weak one has to remain behind and NEAR them to supporting them. The sudden dash can only come as the clock about runs out.

As for the distance - in Konig the distances are TINY. It is true that in Orel or July I avoid 'Hurrah Stalin' attacks, as described above. But even in massive maps sometimes the sudden rush is in order, as when the clock is about run out and we have one objective to take. I have watched two man tanks plod around carefully, afraid to scratch the paint on their tanks (apparently afraid to cost the Reich a few Reichmarks) while the clock is almost run out. Then the Battle is lost and these guys go, "Oh, imagine that". Watching the map and clock is a duty all players must do.
 
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against a good german team on konigs you won't live long near the sege unless you've already overrun that position. :rolleyes: my first priority on konigs is hunting the tiger so its NOT killing our infantry. keeping the tiger busy is way better than getting a faust up your ass by being reckless next to a faust spawn point. when you get the tiger burning, then you can hunt infantry briefly until it returns.

and jumping out to steal fausts from your infantry is another big no-no. :rolleyes: they need all the ones they can get. if you get shot out of your tank, do a suicide rush so you can respawn or grab a gun
 
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seppdietr

seppdietr

This is EASTERN FRONT - and I know for a fact that Russian tanks ran over German troops - I have accounts recorded by the US Army after WWII in the 50s. ANd I have read numberous books about the Eastern front since 1968. I know that Russian tanks over-ran German troops - in fact that is why the Germans MADE THE PANZERFAUST. And that is why they used expossive packs. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about the Eastern Front knows this. If Russian tanks never got near to German troops the panzerfaust would have been pointless.

Also - this is a GAME. I can list 150 points about its design that are not realistic. For example - out of every 10 Russian tanks in the late war - ONLY 1 HAD A RADIO. So to be realistic you guys should stop blabbing to each other over your microphones. While some modern troops can talk to one another over a com-link - in WWII NO SOLDIER HAD A COM-LINK to all the other men. So actually this "typing" and "Mic - blabbing" to each other is 1000 times more UNREALISTIC than clown cars taking out tanks or tanks doing anything.

THE REAL TRUTH IS THAT some are just wimps - and don't like it when I charge around flattening all their troops and winning that Berlin map in 5 minutes. Some are not bold by nature. I hear them on their microphones - I can spot them as NERDS to the bone - and they think that they are playing chess. IN real life the Russian would pile troops on top of their T-34s and rush the Germans - over-run them and the troops (those still alive) would jump off screaming "Hurrah Stalin!" and fight the Germans hand to hand. Its called "manly men" - and the fact that if they did not the NKVD would put a bullet in their back.

As for the Western front, I just read a book about that where it mentions how General Rose was shot at point blank range by a German tank as his own tanks and men were over run by a German Panzer unit - with tanks and infantry in one big pile criss crossing one another along the road. Infact back in the Eastern Front - Kursk at one point had over 700 tanks mixing it up with thousands of men in a confused mass of dust and smoke.

S.O.P. orders from HQ last about 5 minutes in real battle.

I have come to realize very few real life vetrans play this game - the average age appears to be about 15.

If you guys want realism - then from now on only speak to your troops when you are all within 50 feet of one another.

Tankers in this game TEND to be wimps. The boldest - the most [FONT=&quot]Asymmetrical warriors in this game are anti-tank infantry - especially RUSSIANS. I am not sure why - maybe the brainiacks are all drawn to the German side. Maybe only Vodka lovers gravitate toward the Russian side. Maybe its the Russian lingo in the game that sounds like a Rusky who had smoked heavily and drank vodka by the barrel all his life. I am not sure why. But even among the Germans its the anti-tank infantry who do the bold stuff. Its like all the football players in this game go out to be anti-tank guys and all the chess players gravitate toward tanks. I have seen some hotshots in tanks - once saw another Russian in the Berlin map roaring down the main ditch and crushing and shooting the Germans trying to cross it. I stopped to admire him even though I was German that day.
[/FONT]
 
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This is EASTERN FRONT - and I know for a fact that Russian tanks ran over German troops - I have accounts recorded by the US Army after WWII in the 50s.

Why would you bother looking for US sources about whether or not the Russians ran over Germans? Of course enemy soldiers got ran over by tanks. In every theatre.

The Panzerfaust was created due to the sheer mass of armour German troops encountered during conflict. It's easier to make 1 panzerfaust than it is a whole tank to fight against a tank. Not specifically "because troops got ran over".
I'm fairly certain more troops were shot by enemy armour than were run over by them.

Also - this is a GAME. I can list 150 points about its design that are not realistic. For example - out of every 10 Russian tanks in the late war - ONLY 1 HAD A RADIO. So to be realistic you guys should stop blabbing to each other over your microphones. While some modern troops can talk to one another over a com-link - in WWII NO SOLDIER HAD A COM-LINK to all the other men. So actually this "typing" and "Mic - blabbing" to each other is 1000 times more UNREALISTIC than clown cars taking out tanks or tanks doing anything.

You said the right thing, then you've gone way off. Red Orchestra is a game. A multiplayer team based game, played by gamers, for fun.
Now what sort of game doesn't feature voice comms? What sort of clan has a match without the whole team being on TeamSpeak or Ventrillo?
It's not real life, and it's not trying to be.

I have come to realize very few real life vetrans play this game - the average age appears to be about 15.

Good god. A game being played by kids!? NO WAY!! If you've ever met anyone who has actually seen combat I'm sure you'll realise that it is an experience that they don't want to re-live.

Tankers in this game TEND to be wimps

By wimps do you mean "They don't come charging forward to get killed by AT weaponry"?
If there are any decent AT troops on a map and you get within 60m of them you'll find yourself very dead, very fast.

I suppose if I sat back on Konigsplatz, after the monument, off to the left of the siegesaulle keeping the enemy pinned down so that the infantry can advance I suppose that makes me a wimp in your eyes. Of course in a sensible persons eyes it is in fact me doing what a tank is supposed to do. Support infantry.
 
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It's important for tanks to support their infantry. After all, that is what they were originally designed for...infantry support. Taking out enemy tanks was a secondary thing that became more important during WWII. While I hear alot of talking and complaining about tanks providing adequate infantry support in this game, alot of people like to forget that tanks are not invincible. Infact, ever since weapons like magnetic AT mines and panzerfausts were invented, it has become 'somewhat easy' to destroy a tank under the right conditions. Not only do tanks have a responsibility to support their infantry, but infantry must support their armour. Tank turrets don't turn as fast as infantry men do. Tanks don't have as good a view as infantry. The view isn't even close unless the comander unbuttons, and that can be very dangerous in a close quarters combat area. Tanks can potentially be more vulnerable than the infantry, as they are bigger targets that cannot hide as well. On maps like Wateverovko, if the Russian infantry do not carefully support their tanks, the German infantry will make very quick work of them with the panzerfausts. Sometimes it is best for the armour to move in slightly ahead of the infantry, and sometimes it is best to let the infantry go in first. In many cases, like in Wateverovko, I think the tanks and infantry should move in together, at the same time. In short it takes good teamwork between infantry and armour to succeed.
 
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quite

You might come across the 'I recon some clans plant teamkillers on my side in order to stop me... ' thread, one of my personal favs.
great stuff - keep it coming - always raises a smile

Bloody hell, the self-aggrandizement goes on in another thread does it... I'll have to find that one for more laughs. The 'manly men' reference also brought a tear to my eye. Now where's my panzerfaust?
 
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SheepDip

SheepDip

I realized my main complaint is just Arad. My Berlin map complaint began because some want-to-be-commander in a tank was bad mouthing the infantry while he sat 500 meters in the rear. Not once did he move forward to locations we had taken!!

But as for tanks running over troops - I am talking about one battle in Russia (forgot the river it was near) after a German breakout attempt - I think it was in early 42 - where a mass of Russian tanks made sport of crushing hundreds of Germans trying to escape in the open without cover. The Germans had no defense since it was a breakout attempt and they had left behind all their anti-tank guns. I read so many books about the Russian Front and it was about 35 years ago concerning this account I can't recall exactly where it was - I think it was more south than center on the front - likely after the German drive on Moscow failed and during the Russian counterattack. I do recall that it was a field covered in snow.

But in the game I just like crushing with the T-34 because its a hotrod tank and goes about anywhere. I use the Joseph Stalin too, but it hasn't got the power to weight ratio to allow it to climb over everything. You note in the pictures I posted above that I was using the T-34.

I rarely use German tanks to run over troops. I feel that Red Orc does not do justice to the Panther or the smaller tanks. I tend to use the PzKpfw III when I can because it is more maneuverable.
 
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Irminsul

Irminsul

I am about to return to the game in a few days, having been away from it for 3+ weeks. I will being using the name Irminsul once more. I am entering again because 3 young friends want to start up and I said I would show them some of the ropes. Actually for X-mass I bought them all a copy each since I found them on sale. :) FRESH MEAT
 
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sheepdip, maybe the battle you are talking about is the cherkassy pocket battle. where the 5th ss and mainly belgian ss volunteers attemted an night escape in the open, when they got spotted by the ruskies and got slaughtered but some succeeded to escape...

and for KARTASIK:

when im on konigsplatz i LOVE it when russian tankers do what you say they should do! as soon as a ruskie tank comes too close to break our lines i take it out verry easy with my fausts. on the other hand when they are smarter and support their infantry from a safe distance it becomes impossible for us to destroy them it rapidly becomes a true hell...

the tactics you describe such as overrunning axis positions with tanks, was used but it was in NO way the most effective tactic since every german squad had fausts and hollow charges. the germans were actually waiting for the ruskie tanks to overrun them. the russians used this outdated tactic because they simply had no other tactics
 
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