Jogging and firing

[Maus]

One of the worst plagues on this game in my opinion, is the presence of those who almost exclusively do nothing but run, and gun. You see them 20 feet away with a ppsh, you have a rifle. They run towards you, zig-zagging while shooting in your direction quite accurately...

I call it counterstrike syndrome, and it ruins things for me... and I for one think this can't be right.


For one, a lot of the time they are running in a busted old building with debris everywhere, rocky areas, uneven terrain, or something similiar.

Two, they are jogging (which the act itself is enough to bounce the gun around a bit) while firing an unsupported gun from the hip.

three, when compared to firing from a supported aiming position, the same amount or morer recoil is noticeable from the stationary person taking the time and effort to actually AIM rather then charge his enemy rambo style then in the cs kiddie.


i suggest taking something the shape or dimension of a gun, then running around in some uneven ground while holding it from the hip while TRYING to keep the end of it on a certain spot... not imagine trying that with a fully auto mp40 or ppsh firing from the hip.

and on a related note, i suggest toning down the recoil on the stg44 and various smg's to a more realistic level (especially the stg44, while the other guns are moderately controllable, this beast bucks from left to right as much as it does up and down... its uncontrollable) while firing from the shoulder in full auto... but not so much as it becomes a laser gun.

 

[snakedude24]

The STG44 uncontrollable? Foolishness, good sir!

 

[Plaid13]

LoLl i remember you crying about me with the ppsh the other night =) Also seem to remember you hardly ever killed anyone. Between that and the fact that your saying the stg is uncontrolable I assume you havnt been playing very long. I think you really need to play the game for a while longer before deciding this stuff. A good player can basicly snipe with the stg its basicly the best all around gun in the game by far as it is.

If you get a ppsh and jog and shoot at say a wall or something 15 feet away or so and watch the spray pattern you will notice its like a 5-10 foot spread its not accurate at all but... its effective simply because it is shooting 900 rounds a min one quick burst and they have shot 30 rounds in your direction. its not accurate while jogging but it dosnt have to be. Basicly thats exactly what a submachine gun was designed for. A easy to carry and control weapon that can lay down a large volume of fire in tight areas.

While i do totaly agree with recoil needing to be tweeked on most guns mainly while standing upright. the stg isnt the best example. The ppsh is a whole lot harder to control then the stg. hell even the mp40 is harder to control then the stg.

 

[Helmut_AUT]

He got a point though...Run&Gun gameplay has been increasing recently, as more players "get better". On maps like Danzig you can be an ironsighted defender holed up in good cover - then you get simple overrun by a hopping, spraying 72-round firing PPsH maniac.

I think part of the problem is that there's no need to preserve bullets. In a real battle a PPsH soldier would not have spent a whole magazine on a single enemy, since he doesn't really know how much longer he'll have to fight with his ammo loadout.

In game, you just respawn. Which means you can burn trough drum after drum of SMG ammo and just rambo it - and that takes away all the tactical enjoyment of the game. Danzig really is the worst example.

 

[sandorski]

I think it's Realistic. Automatic weapons fire enough rounds that even with extreme reduced accuracy the shooter is bound to hit the target on occassion. You have to consider that in real life a person can negate some of the efects of all that jogging, height of ground, etc. The gun and its' aim are not directly proportional to where the feet are.

I find it frustrating too when faced with an Auto and I have the pistol or rifle. You're gonna lose in that fight unless you're really lucky. That's just the way it goes though. :shrug;

 

[elak]

First off: The STG44 is by far the most stable of all SMG/assault rifles in the game. Hell, I can stand up and land 5-shot burst on target with fair results (IS enabled).

Second: You seem to belong to the cathegory of people that likes to join an overcrowded defending team, pick a rifle and a comfy position and then expect the rest of humanity to voulenteer for your target practice. Just lay down, aim and let them ****ers have it. Now I am one of them "run and gun" junkies, who not only does not play CS but who also have some experience of shooting a gun. Now, if you catch me in the open and don't manage to kill me on spot, I will drop down and crawl to cover. If there is no cover nearby you leave me no choise but to fire away and hope for the best. You have the upper hand with accuracy, I got the upper hand with rate of fire.

Now there is this thing called suppressive fire. It's basically spewing out lead _in the general direction of the enemy, or even where you suspect the enemy to be_. It is meant as a less subtle way of telling the enemy to keep their heads down. If you insist to stay up and take your chanses of killing the shooter(s) it's up to you, but don't start whining about unrealistic gameplay or "Run and gun CS n00bZorzZ". SMGS & assault rifles > bolt action. Ever stopped to think about why every single army in the world has converted to at least AK47s? Or why most armies prefer tanks & figherbombers instead of comfy fixed positions where you can rest your bolt action rifle?

I guess that will be enough as ranting for now. Leave my SMGs alone!

 

[Plaid13]

In real life you dont respawn true enough but... in the game if your good you run out of ammo just the same as in real life. i know i have run out of ammo many times. You dont need to preserve ammo all that much because every person you kill has a weapon and ammo. just grab one of those. The smg should dominate in close quarters thats what it was ment to do.

 

[SheepDip]

*Copies and pastes from the last thread on the subject*

There should be several movement speeds

Walking - weapon in iron sights
faster walk - weapon shouldered, not in iron sights
faster walking again - weapon hipped
jogging - weapon accross torso
sprinting - weapon accross torso

When you jump you should not be able to keep the weapon hipped.

 

[snakedude24]

Oops, edit.... I thought Plaid13 was dissing me - then I actually read his post carefully.

 

[Maus]

LoLl i remember you crying about me with the ppsh the other night =) Also seem to remember you hardly ever killed anyone. Between that and the fact that your saying the stg is uncontrolable I assume you havnt been playing very long. I think you really need to play the game for a while longer before deciding this stuff. A good player can basicly snipe with the stg its basicly the best all around gun in the game by far as it is.

I do snipe with the StG44, it's my favorite gun. I always use it in semi-auto though because in full auto i can't control it... the mp40 is by far the easiest smg for me to control, and on occasion i get an anomally where theres NO RECOIL AT ALL in any of the guns i shoot, often while im running.

Second: You seem to belong to the cathegory of people that likes to join an overcrowded defending team, pick a rifle and a comfy position and then expect the rest of humanity to voulenteer for your target practice. Just lay down, aim and let them ****ers have it. Now I am one of them "run and gun" junkies, who not only does not play CS but who also have some experience of shooting a gun. Now, if you catch me in the open and don't manage to kill me on spot, I will drop down and crawl to cover. If there is no cover nearby you leave me no choise but to fire away and hope for the best. You have the upper hand with accuracy, I got the upper hand with rate of fire.

I avoid run and gunning simply because it's foolish. When i run into a ppsh in close quarters i tend to drop down, or take cover, aim and fire... all the while they're usualy straffing from left to right, running, firing away.

I don't believe recoil should be INCREASED for running and gunning, but instead factor in the body movements of jogging, straffing, jumping, running on uneven or unlevel terrain, etc. while reducing recoil in general to a more realistic level.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

has been discussed in the mod very often, since some do believe that its one of the bigest drawbacks in infantry combat, cause how the player do move in game, does not realy behave like it would in real (compared to a average soldier in combat, with his clothes, gear weapone etc. ). Strafing is somewhat, you do in real life oc course, just thinking about sport, like basketball, soccer or other similar kind of sport, but it takes a lot of energy and body control to do that and i think the game would get a lot better in its infantry fights, if somewhat with strafing could be done, to at least make it more difficult while shooting. There have been various ideas, that when you shoot while strafing your gun becomes totally uncontrolable (even more then now!) so you will hit really nothing, or that strafing should be linked to your stamina, or that strafing should only work slower.

Though, i think strafing, should definetly stay with sprinting how it is. Just with shoting AND strafing, it becomes somewhat strange.

 

[kapulA]

Well,SMG's have to be good for something?
With some practice,you can take them down with a rifle,even in CQC...
If they catch you in the open though,you're as good as dead.
Whose fault is that now?

 

[melipone]

You still have to control the recoil and judge the hip shot. If you fail in either of these then you're a very easy target for the other guy, and unless you're at close range (less than 10m) then you were better off going to iron sight anyway.

Hip shooting is harder than aimed fire so to balance this you have to move. Just think of how the game would be if you couldn't move when hip shooting. It would be a case of "haha I win cos I had iron sights up first PWNED" because the guys defending would always have the upper hand.

I don't have a problem with it as it is because someone with iron sights up always has the advantage anyway unless you still manage to miss your shots, and considering you say in the same post you want the recoil reduced when shooting from iron sights, I guess you just need to get better at controling the recoil/get better at aiming. Burst fire with the STG and aim. Don't just hold the button down and spray in the general area of the hip shooter - aim, burst for a few shots, reaim, burst. Or if on single fire, shoot, aim, shoot..recoil doesn't matter much with single shots anyway.
​

 

[Ron]

has been discussed in the mod very often, since some do believe that its one of the bigest drawbacks in infantry combat, cause how the player do move in game, does not realy behave like it would in real (compared to a average soldier in combat, with his clothes, gear weapone etc. ). Strafing is somewhat, you do in real life oc course, just thinking about sport, like basketball, soccer or other similar kind of sport, but it takes a lot of energy and body control to do that and i think the game would get a lot better in its infantry fights, if somewhat with strafing could be done, to at least make it more difficult while shooting. There have been various ideas, that when you shoot while strafing your gun becomes totally uncontrolable (even more then now!) so you will hit really nothing, or that strafing should be linked to your stamina, or that strafing should only work slower.

Though, i think strafing, should definetly stay with sprinting how it is. Just with shoting AND strafing, it becomes somewhat strange.

My view also for the most part, also i think one of the biggest things in this game that makes this zig-zaging(strafing) tactic while firing possible is the lack of momentum, there's no way in rl someone with an smg is going to advance on a position sidesteping left and right while keeping the gun on the target area and then also going the same speed as someone who just runs straight?.

 

[BeserkWraithlor]

*Copies and pastes from the last thread on the subject*

There should be several movement speeds

Walking - weapon in iron sights
faster walk - weapon shouldered, not in iron sights
faster walking again - weapon hipped
jogging - weapon accross torso
sprinting - weapon accross torso

When you jump you should not be able to keep the weapon hipped.

Agreed.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the SMG's massive recoil makes it much harder than it seems to hipshoot a guy. I woudn't know, because of that Recoil Bug, but I have only used SMG once without the Recoil bug, and I had so much problems hitting a person 30 feet away in iron sights with PPsh!

 

[Quenaelin]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the SMG's massive recoil makes it much harder than it seems to hipshoot a guy. I woudn't know, because of that Recoil Bug, but I have only used SMG once without the Recoil bug, and I had so much problems hitting a person 30 feet away in iron sights with PPsh!

You are correct. In reality SMG's didn't have so massive recoil. Hip shooting was pretty much common shooting method used in WWII when assaulting with SMG. Realistically you can shoot with low accuracy while running, moderate accuracy when walking and with good accuracy while standing, but even more accurately you can shoot with SMG when it is braced, so you can shoot down those run&gun rambos

I think RO doesn't calculate player speed in to weapon accuracy or recoil control. Now when you fire SMG's while standing, recoil and accuracy feels like you are running, so there is no difference if you running or standing still, accuracy is same all the time. So obviously people are preferably running.

 

[Maus]

I think RO doesn't calculate player speed in to weapon accuracy or recoil control. Now when you fire SMG's while standing, recoil and accuracy feels like you are running, so there is no difference if you running or standing still, accuracy is same all the time. So obviously people are preferably running.

And it's precisely THIS that should change to favor those who take the time to aim.