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Usable mortars!

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#21
I like how everyone jumped on my nuts after I gave an opinion. I must have really offended a few people saying I don't think Carpathian Crosses will be a good mod. When it finally does come out and it is actually good, I will publically apologize and maybe mail all you guys some chocolates for stating a mere outlook on a mod in very early development stages.

As for the actual topic (moveable mortars) that does sound pretty cool, and if it's done right, it can be enjoyable.
 
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#22
snakedude24 said:
He never said he could do better.

I can't make escargot, but that doesn't mean that I can't criticize it.
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Great answer!! Excellent analogy! I appreciate that.

To the naysayers... remember, diversified, informative opinions can only make things better. Stifled opinions make everything morose.
 
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#23
mbrooksay said:
When it finally does come out and it is actually good, I will publically apologize and maybe mail all you guys some chocolates for stating a mere outlook on a mod in very early development stages.
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Looking forward to seeing those chocolates in my inbox :)

Just for everyone's information, there are large amounts of work going on in this mod "beneath the surface" and there are several ideas which are rejected, or are not yet confirmed. The idea of the 'dripfeed' of releases is partly to keep interest alive and partly to give us a chance to show off our stuff.
 
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#24
Alyosha said:
My only worry is that a 2 man operated mortar team will actually turn maps into 14v14 maps instead of 16v16, which is already too few on large maps
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Not only that.
If reload time of these mortars will be realistic they might dominate the whole map and virtually making infantry warfare one big masacre. Seems to me most players who think this is a cool feature imagine themselves on the firing end, NOT on the receiving end.
Personally I hope it's tuned down a lot, because it's a weapon with a large blast radius and thus "skill-less" in my book ;)

Nevertheless the mod looks and "hears" very nice so far and sevastopol sure has a nice ring to it. Nice models gentlemen.

Monk.
 
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#25
Monkwarrior said:
Not only that.
If reload time of these mortars will be realistic they might dominate the whole map and virtually making infantry warfare one big masacre. Seems to me most players who think this is a cool feature imagine themselves on the firing end, NOT on the receiving end.
Personally I hope it's tuned down a lot, because it's a weapon with a large blast radius and thus "skill-less" in my book ;)

Nevertheless the mod looks and "hears" very nice so far and sevastopol sure has a nice ring to it. Nice models gentlemen.

Monk.
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considering the way you aim with the mortar i woudnt call the ability to actually hit something with it skill-less :)

And its not like we are putting them into basovka or kaukasus
 
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#26
Damn! I wanted it in Basovka ;) although a mortar would prolly benefit the Germans more once they got the range of the static defences.

The mortar is very much about area denial - it needs to be positioned carefully as it does not have a huge horizontal traverse and the ranging relies on a) the spotter getting the range correct in the first place and b) the operator setting the exhaust vent correctly
 
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#28
Something to (re)consider will be the flexible placement of mortars.
If mortars can cover cap-areas they might destroy some of the current teamwork. Their blastradius might be too large for the size of most of the current capareas. Being blown to bits isn't exactly motivating to cap an area now is it ;)
Enlarging cap-areas could be a counter-measure, but given the nature of this game and playerspeed this might be a rather limited solution.

In fact I have a strong feeling they don't mix very well: infantry and mortars. Might have to do with my dislike about anything which rains from the sky (artillery, mortars, nades) and kills with too much effectiveness :)

Monk.
 
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#29
I don't think that there can be much doubt that a mortar is a gameplay-changing factor.

Certainly, in an assault situation priorities will change from 'cap the flag and take out the sniper' to 'cap the flag and take out the sniper AND the mortar'.

Personal preferences about the use of HE are not something we can do much about. I would point out, however, that the 50mm mortar shell has about the same amount of HE as a grenade.
 
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#33
I, for one, welcome the addition of the Romanians to RO; I hope others are eventually added as well as the RO community grows.

The addition of mortars is welcome, also; true, they have the potential to be major players on almost any map, but they can also be a liability if they are taken and not used effectively. I expect it will take some time to figure the ins and outs of the system, but in the end it can only be good for us as a whole.

Perhaps more budding developers and modders will be inspired by this to create even more useful additions to our great game system, courtesy of the fine folks at TWI.
 
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#36
There's a kind of weird line to tread, here.

If the mortar only has the HE explosive radius of a grenade, and I (assume) a mild amount of spread to prevent pin point dropping on the same point, then it really just amounts to having someone near a cap zone/choke point tossing grenades every few seconds, while removing 2 people from your team.

On the other hand, if the blast was larger/stronger, you'd have the problem of a well placed mortar denying a cap by itself. Of course, most cap zones have cover, and any inside of buildings would be indifferent.

Then again, depending on accuracy, you could always end up with a severely toned down "Desert Combat SCUD" situation where two people who know exactly what they are doing set up the mortar and have it launching right outside of the enemy spawn in all of 10 seconds. But, with a blast radius that small, I doubt this is a major issue.. until a lucky shot takes out 2+ people and makes up for the mortar team not being part of the attack.

All in all, it's an interesting idea, but balancing it between nerfed-to-uselessness and complete silliness will be.. difficult.
 
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#38
1 - Mortars need deploying carefully, using carefully by experienced crew in a co-operative spirit and have limited ammo - the shells ARE pretty heavy.

2 - Spawn protection exists and will not cease to exist on any sensibly-made maps.

3 - No matter what it is, people will always find new and complicated ways to be a55hats with a weapon system.

4 - We are going to be thorughly playtesting all aspects of Carpathian Crosses before release.
 
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#39
Monkwarrior said:
Something to (re)consider will be the flexible placement of mortars.
If mortars can cover cap-areas they might destroy some of the current teamwork. Their blastradius might be too large for the size of most of the current capareas. Being blown to bits isn't exactly motivating to cap an area now is it ;)
Enlarging cap-areas could be a counter-measure, but given the nature of this game and playerspeed this might be a rather limited solution.

In fact I have a strong feeling they don't mix very well: infantry and mortars. Might have to do with my dislike about anything which rains from the sky (artillery, mortars, nades) and kills with too much effectiveness :)

Monk.
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I tend to agree with this and thought somewhat the same thing myself. For mortars and teamwork and capzones to work correctly will be very tricky. (Please try to consider this without the tainting influence of enthusiasm/excitement for a new weapon) It seems like it's something that would only work well with much larger numbers of players. Take 64 for example, it allows the kind of teamwork to both cap and suppress/remove mortar teams at the same time in more than one capzone.
My skepticism might be misplaced, but gut feeling is that the mortar is something being developed more to add something cool and a project for the "coder/mapper" than based on careful consideration of gameplay on a 32 person game. (Yes, I just read from the developers on the post above that they are going to be testing it. On full 32 person servers with public players who for the most part don't know each other?)
Historically, mortars were very widely used yes, but in this game with it's current limitation to 32 players/16 per side, I'm thinking it might be a disaster for the good teamplay that is really developing.
 
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#40
slyder73 said:
I tend to agree with this and thought somewhat the same thing myself. For mortars and teamwork and capzones to work correctly will be very tricky. (Please try to consider this without the tainting influence of enthusiasm/excitement for a new weapon) It seems like it's something that would only work well with much larger numbers of players. Take 64 for example, it allows the kind of teamwork to both cap and suppress/remove mortar teams at the same time in more than one capzone.
My skepticism might be misplaced, but gut feeling is that the mortar is something being developed more to add something cool and a project for the "coder/mapper" than based on careful consideration of gameplay on a 32 person game. (Yes, I just read from the developers on the post above that they are going to be testing it. On full 32 person servers with public players who for the most part don't know each other?)
Historically, mortars were very widely used yes, but in this game with it's current limitation to 32 players/16 per side, I'm thinking it might be a disaster for the good teamplay that is really developing.
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Vaguely remembers me of the posts when tanks came into consideration the first time :)

Somehow i get the feeling that people think we make a map and then, just to get funky, put a mortar in it without thinking about the consequences.
Tbh, the "number of players" argument works somewhat with tanks, i dont see it with mortars at all. Actually i cant really see an argument beside "it wouldnt work". I think it enforces teamplay quite more. Your team has to fight another threat and be coordinated better (which im quite sure you are implying with the "testing on a full 32 server public" thingy, is a bad thing).

*shrug*

Most negative posts seem to come out of fear of something new and that it might change the game. The game was changed several times in the past, tanks were added, rifles and SMGs were tweaked to a way that in one release one was completely useless and in the next it was the other way round. Consider yourself lucky, this is an Add-on, you dont have to play it :)
 
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