Squad RO:Ladder premier league

[Krokar]

RO:Ladder presents the

RO:Ladder premier league


​

After a lot of talk and lot of speculations and discussions and the great activity in the
newcomer ladder drastic changes are coming.


The EU ladder is transfered into the RO:L premier league.
Each team plays every team during one season.
8 Teams compete for the top spot.

The following teams are invited to the premier league:

-

Full Metal Jacket
-

Project Twilight
-

13th Panzer Division
-

INForcers
-

No Way
-

SUOMI
-

Core
-

team enclave


To give an additional motivation to the clans in the NCL,
a relegation match happens after each season.
The 2nd in the NCL will play the bottom spot of the league,
the 1st has to face the 7th of the permier league.

As the final bonus, the first season of the premier league
is played for a total of 200

 

[Rak]

Awesome, I hope this will bring much more competition to Ladder matches

 

[{Core}Steven]

This is great news for all the clans playing at ROLadder

 

[spraduke]

except its not a ladder its a league .

Oh well i guess we will see how it pans out.

 

[worluk]

except its not a ladder its a league .

Oh well i guess we will see how it pans out.

Im sure some other clan will fill the gap, if you have a problem that the site is still called RO:Ladder.

 

[spraduke]

Im sure some other clan will fill the gap, if you have a problem that the site is still called RO:Ladder.

Ooookkk. Just making a little light hearted joke. Im willing to give it a bash and see what happens.

 

[Zetsumei]

OK, so you guys added a clan thats 4th in the NCL league to the "premier" team selection, didn't add the last clan of the euro ladder PHT. and the second of the NCL ladder GS didn't get a spot. Next to that, only 2 ppl of the old EURO league can get rouled out of this premier league every league and only 2 new clans can enter?? AK if the NCL gets better than the entire euro in time it takes atleast 4 leagues before the old clans are out of roulation.

The clans are still splitted in 2 keeping the ladder small, and in the NCL the big boys can take on the real New comer clans and steal their free points with ease, so the problem that caused the creation of the NCL ladder is still there its just on the NCL ladder now.

I hoped that you guys would fix the problems, now there is hardly any change but that every league 2 of the top NCL can fight with the last 2 of the NCL.

Why not mix everybody together and have a big happy family in a bigger ladder, And just give fix the problem that the lower clans can be continued to be beaten by the higher ups with a simple rule such as not being able to challenge an enemy thats more than 2 ranks below you...

The clanning community is already tiny, and now its sure to stay like that.

 

[worluk]

OK, so you guys added a clan thats 4th in the NCL league to the "premier" team selection, didn't add the last clan of the euro ladder PHT. and the second of the NCL ladder GS didn't get a spot. Next to that, only 2 ppl of the old EURO league can get rouled out of this premier league every league and only 2 new clans can enter?? AK if the NCL gets better than the entire euro in time it takes atleast 4 leagues before the old clans are out of roulation.

The clans are still splitted in 2 keeping the ladder small, and in the NCL the big boys can take on the real New comer clans and steal their free points with ease, so the problem that caused the creation of the NCL ladder is still there its just on the NCL ladder now.

I hoped that you guys would fix the problems, now there is hardly any change but that every league 2 of the top NCL can fight with the last 2 of the NCL.

Why not mix everybody together and have a big happy family in a bigger ladder, And just give fix the problem that the lower clans can be continued to be beaten by the higher ups with a simple rule such as not being able to challenge an enemy thats more than 2 ranks below you...

The clanning community is already tiny, and now its sure to stay like that.

sorry Zetsumei, you have no clue what you are talking about. You obviously forgot the problems there were when it WAS one ladder. The NCL solved that pretty well. The EU ladder stayed dry which solves this league now. The 4th of the newcomer ladder (core) didnt play even close to the matches the top clans in that ladder did. (Like you and several other said an "artificial rank") Core played in the EU ladder and changed to the NCL though imo and the opinion of several others they are stronger than most of the clans in the NCL still.
PHT (or more like Core-Fin) was inactive to date. We dont really plan with inactive clans, cant blame anyone for that.
enclave and GS are imo dominating the NCL atm and even they say they are not sure if they can compete with the teams that are planed for the league.
As a genereal point: clans seem to prefer public *****ing, moaning and whining over a PM and asking why they arent in and if there aint the possibility to expand the league. Cant help them.

Btw. have you even checked how long one season takes atm? 2.5 month.
A really long time....

"the big boys" in the NCL? who is that?

 

[Zetsumei]

sorry Zetsumei, you have no clue what you are talking about. You obviously forgot the problems there were when it WAS one ladder. The NCL solved that pretty well. The EU ladder stayed dry which solves this league now. The 4th of the newcomer ladder (core) didnt play even close to the matches the top clans in that ladder did. (Like you and several other said an "artificial rank") Core played in the EU ladder and changed to the NCL though imo and the opinion of several others they are stronger than most of the clans in the NCL still.
PHT (or more like Core-Fin) was inactive to date. We dont really plan with inactive clans, cant blame anyone for that.
enclave and GS are imo dominating the NCL atm and even they say they are not sure if they can compete with the teams that are planed for the league.
As a genereal point: clans seem to prefer public *****ing, moaning and whining over a PM and asking why they arent in and if there aint the possibility to expand the league. Cant help them.

Btw. have you even checked how long one season takes atm? 2.5 month.
A really long time....

"the big boys" in the NCL? who is that?

with big boys i refer to the top clans in ncl they still can totaly devestate the new clans nowadays . If the NCL wasn't created for making sure the new players have a safe way to play without old clans jumping on their necks straight away stealing those free points then i totally go the idea of the NcL wrong, most clans have become real clans already able to participate in a complete ladder, just all new clans and much lower ranked ones should need protection, why not split the NCL once again so that Enclave can't slaugther strahd's clan..... Then of what use is it. 2.5 month is a long time... meaning if at some point the NCL ppl are stronger it would take atleast 10 months before the old premier ppl are out of rotation thats nearly a year so yeah i call that long. Especially since clans can't seem to be able to join the premier ladder straight away even if they are clearly from the start one of the strong teams.

Sure the premier ladder is nice and all but it does not solve any of the problems I and some others were moaning about all the time on irc.

 

[worluk]

so basically you are whining that someone sits on the bottom of the ladder?

I think the spots on the NCL are pretty equally distributed without any bigger gaps. So there is a lot of room of improvement for the clans there and enough opponents that wont rape them.

 

[CatMangler]

Does it strike anyone else that Roladder could do with a little more PR than what we currently experience?

I take nothing away from what they do and have done for the RO clanning community but it seems in recent months the Admins are becoming tired of us mere mortals.

Perhaps the whining and moaning that co-exists with running such an operation has worn them down to extent that their usual good humour has failed.

Entering into terse public debate about its own community hardly encourages new clan’s and individuals to join up. Obviously, discussing matters in a calm fashion enhances Roladder’s cause.

Hopefully we will see a return to good spirits with the introduction of the new league.

 

[worluk]

Does it strike anyone else that Roladder could do with a little more PR than what we currently experience?

I take nothing away from what they do and have done for the RO clanning community but it seems in recent months the Admins are becoming tired of us mere mortals.

Perhaps the whining and moaning that co-exists with running such an operation has worn them down to extent that their usual good humour has failed.

Entering into terse public debate about its own community hardly encourages new clan

 

[Zetsumei]

so basically you are whining that someone sits on the bottom of the ladder?

I think the spots on the NCL are pretty equally distributed without any bigger gaps. So there is a lot of room of improvement for the clans there and enough opponents that wont rape them.

the top thats there now wouldn't rape anymore than the other euro tops would the big skill gap is narrowing the last guys of the euro ladder can effectively fight good against the top of NCL. The skillgap that was once there is now hardly there. or lets just say there are lots of inbetween clans to make the skill difference from the lowest euro flow over to the highest NCL teams.

What i'm whining about it that the bottom of the ladder teams can still get continously hammered for free points it doesn't mater if Core, Enclave or GS would do it. or PT, Inforcers, FMJ and 13th.

If you would have created an option that you can only challenge teams that are above you or X ranks lower than you. Those weaker teams wouldn't get killed by the higher ups for easy points (what i thought was the primary reason the NCL was created).

First there was a definate gap between the old clans and the new clans, so much of a gap that they couldn't really play together. Now OLD clans like core that played the most matches of all the OLD clans are playing in the NCL, why not just add the rest to that and make the ladder appear bigger give people more vision they are participating in the primary ladder.

Well maybe the old clans like to steal free points indeed from the new clans, but thesame is happening with the really new clans.

I'm not against the premier league, but with core leaving to the NCL what the **** is that about. I just don't see why you shouldn't just merge everything in 1 big ladder, and once every 2.5 months or whatever you just take the top 8 of the ladder and let them fight in a small seperate tournament.

(Not like the nationscup that you're playing with a complete different team that would need seperate training or whatever so you can't participate in the normal ladder)

Core is highly active and will basically challenge every clan they can get to get a day filled (which is a good thing imho). But small clans ranked alot below core will loose their points in matches they cannot win from the start.

The premier ladder might be a nice thing, don't like the way how teams stream into the premier ladder again based on the part that it would take 10 months to fully replace the premier team). But even if you don't mix the EU ladder and NCL ladder together why not add something that will allow lower clans to protect themselves against really higher up clans?

And again i always thought that was the reason for the creation of the NCL to protect the new clans from being point whored by the older teams. Well if that was ever the idea then that is happening now again just only inside the NCL itself.

I don't see how this solution is the way to fix and reason core's leaving to the NCL... All i see is that you killed the euro ladder and just created a league for only a few teams to participate in, keeping the clanning community small, keeping the problems that everybody was complaining about i don't see the fix here.

 

[worluk]

the top thats there now wouldn't rape anymore than the other euro tops would the big skill gap is narrowing the last guys of the euro ladder can effectively fight good against the top of NCL. The skillgap that was once there is now hardly there. or lets just say there are lots of inbetween clans to make the skill difference from the lowest euro flow over to the highest NCL teams.

What i'm whining about it that the bottom of the ladder teams can still get continously hammered for free points it doesn't mater if Core, Enclave or GS would do it. or PT, Inforcers, FMJ and 13th.

If you would have created an option that you can only challenge teams that are above you or X ranks lower than you. Those weaker teams wouldn't get killed by the higher ups for easy points (what i thought was the primary reason the NCL was created).

First there was a definate gap between the old clans and the new clans, so much of a gap that they couldn't really play together. Now OLD clans like core that played the most matches of all the OLD clans are playing in the NCL, why not just add the rest to that and make the ladder appear bigger give people more vision they are participating in the primary ladder.

Well maybe the old clans like to steal free points indeed from the new clans, but thesame is happening with the really new clans.

I'm not against the premier league, but with core leaving to the NCL what the **** is that about. I just don't see why you shouldn't just merge everything in 1 big ladder, and once every 2.5 months or whatever you just take the top 8 of the ladder and let them fight in a small seperate tournament.

(Not like the nationscup that you're playing with a complete different team that would need seperate training or whatever so you can't participate in the normal ladder)

Core is highly active and will basically challenge every clan they can get to get a day filled (which is a good thing imho). But small clans ranked alot below core will loose their points in matches they cannot win from the start.

The premier ladder might be a nice thing, don't like the way how teams stream into the premier ladder again based on the part that it would take 10 months to fully replace the premier team). But even if you don't mix the EU ladder and NCL ladder together why not add something that will allow lower clans to protect themselves against really higher up clans?

And again i always thought that was the reason for the creation of the NCL to protect the new clans from being point whored by the older teams. Well if that was ever the idea then that is happening now again just only inside the NCL itself.

I don't see how this solution is the way to fix and reason core's leaving to the NCL... All i see is that you killed the euro ladder and just created a league for only a few teams to participate in, keeping the clanning community small, keeping the problems that everybody was complaining about i don't see the fix here.

lets agree on the point that we dont agree on several. Go for it zets and create one BIG ladder, that worked so well when we had it...

As for everybody complaining. The teams in the NCL are quite happy and active atm. I cant say that from you and your clan...

 

[Zetsumei]

lets agree on the point that we dont agree on several. Go for it zets and create one BIG ladder, that worked so well when we had it...

As for everybody complaining. The teams in the NCL are quite happy and active atm. I cant say that from you and your clan...

You have 1 big ladder now the NCL with a ladder you made dead next to it. All the problems that were with the original ladder are occuring in the NCL now aswell. I know why not just split the NCL in the NcNcL ...

I was never against the creation of the NCL, but the skillgap is just gone now atleast between half the Premier teams and the top of the NCL...
If entering them in a ladder would make for killing and stealing points from all current clans then there is something faulty in the ladder system and the point system. The point system sure was nice when a few clans were playing. It was too small you couldn't add any protection in a way because with the 10 clans at that time say 8 were old and 2 were new. the last 2 would get raped over and over by the old so the NCL was nice. But that is not the case anymore and the raping is there in the NCL aswell. Instead of running around of some of the problems like point raping, why not try to find a solution atleast...

Atm it seems that the clan i'm in atm which you so kindly bashes is more active than PT....

 

[Mr._Kong]

Well i am going to have to agree with zets on this one, and he is not saying to just add them together. You have to also make it so the top clans can not challange the bottom ones, this is the way TWl works. And it keeps there from being a rape of the weaker clans.
Maybe we could even see a merge of the american and euro clans as well, that would be my heaven....

 

[Zetsumei]

Well i am going to have to agree with zets on this one, and he is not saying to just add them together. You have to also make it so the top clans can not challange the bottom ones, this is the way TWl works. And it keeps there from being a rape of the weaker clans.
Maybe we could even see a merge of the american and euro clans as well, that would be my heaven....

Whatever there is about all ladders have a way to make raping new clans unattractive either disallowing people to do so or just make a scoring system in a way that its just unatracctive. (first case of making impossible would be twl probably, the way of doing it with score would be clanbase).

Again the leagues are nice i just have problems with the league of how teams enter it, atleast the description on the mainpage, not against the league principle itself)

Now if you say that all clans that are in the league may enter the ladder and that point whoring of new clans isn't a possibility with whatever way. I'd be happy. FFS all these things i say aren't of my own interest, because i like to loose because of the challenge chaos (call me mad). But some clans might not and some clans might kill lots of small teams to get to the top with easy victories. Those principle things are in my idea just some problems at the core of the ladder. the ladder system of using percentages is together with weak clan protection was never good for use with big skill differences. and for the weakest clans in the NCL it doesn't matter if PT slaughters them or Enclave... In euro all clans would get slaughtered + there was a large skill gap between old an new clans there are enough clans now to fill the skill gap to have a nice ladder system. But if top end clans can just attack the lowest clans with ease and steal 8% of their points there is just something fundamentally wrong.

Thats what i'm complaining about all the time, i don't know why i'm writing this since you already said you don't read my posts anyway :\

 

[[13th]Malony/93]

first i have to say ROL admins are making a REALLY good job for free.

now to the Problem of "top teams of NCL will beat EU teams":
maybe true, they can show it after 2.5 month.
1.) if you make EU ladder bigger, the period gets longer => more unfair to the "top NCL" clans to get into EU ladder
2.) make big ladder where all are in you have the same problem that the "low skill" clans will not have fun against the "top clans"
the solution i ever hear: "you can only challange higher ranked clans"... ok, top ranked clans don't challange and are only waiting for a lower ranked clan until they ask for a challange.... this does not solve problems and the clans will get TIRED if they can only challange against 2 clans if they are on top spots. (maybe the lower clans won't challange them)
3.) compare it to soccer leagues (at least in germany)
there is a "1. bundesliga", "2. bundesliga" and so on.
only the last two will exchange with the first two of the leagues.
If the teams in the "2. bundesliga" are good enough, they will get into the better league. but this takes ONE year, and in ROladder it only takes 2.5 month.
4.) you are afraid that most of the NCL teams will be able to beat EU teams, but don't have the chance. FALSE, they have!
if team A is not as good as team B in NCL, and team B will not beat a team C of EU, the result is A won't beat team C. if B will beat C, C will get to NCL, but A can beat C to get into EU ladder! ok, it takes 2.5 month longer for them, but they CAN!

and at least the thing that the EU clans are not active atm (especially PT):
did you see the NC? yes it is still going on! I can only speak for myselfe, I don't have time to play NC AND EU the same time.... this would waste too much time. And most of PT players are in NC team!

PT is a real active clan, but they do not only play, the ORGANIZE!! one of them is coding for a mod, others are helping as admins. Most things you maybe don't realize would not be possible without PT guys!

Now only one question: did you ever do a free project on the internet? I have done, and i know that there are more "****, does not work" comments than "thank you"... I can only mention the free RoTV project. It is closed now!
So, hop in a project and help, then you can realize all your ideas and see that there will be EVER more "this is bull**** comments" than, "well done comments", no matter what you are doing.

and to the TWL: yes they make it different, but there will be crying players too! perhaps one day you will think "yes, TWL is not the best solution, ROL did it better", maybe you will think the opposite! But you didn't even give them a new chance, and sorry, you can't say atm if it will work or not. nobody can it!

I am sure ROL admins will change to a "better" system if they have one, or someone told them one. The problem is, that most "improvements" poeple wish are not working, or if they do the "improvements", the others will cry "this is bull****".

Now they try to make a change (btw, the second time), and you will not even give a try to it! The only thing is bashing. So i really understand admins if they get pissed some times. Everyone of us would do the same. If you don't agree with me, you have never done a free project!

To the point to merge USA and EU. Yes it would be great because there would be more clans. But this is a example for a "not good working improvement" i already mentioned. Time and ping differences are thr problem. It is no fun to play a 4 hours match against USA. (i have done it!!) You can't go to bed until 1 o'clock, because you can't start match before 8 or 9. And you have to get up at 6 o'clock perhaps. really nice! And you can only play on weekends because of time difference. The result would be that most EU teams would only challange EU teams, and USA teams only USA teams. Then there would be the "USA teams only challenge USA teams" whining.

GOOD WORK ROL ADMINS! perhaps it is not the best solution, but NOBODY can know this for now! thumps up

 

[spraduke]

My main disagreement is that if a couple of clans go inactive the PL will start to fall appart and from fullmj's POV 1 match a week isnt enough.

But then again we will pair it up with clanbase and get the best of both

 

[[13th]Malony/93]

My main disagreement is that if a couple of clans go inactive the PL will start to fall appart and from fullmj's POV 1 match a week isnt enough.

But then again we will pair it up with clanbase and get the best of both

true, but the "merge all leagues together with "only challange teams above you"" will not solve this problem, because if top clans are inactive, you can't challange them!
Being afraid is ok, but just wait how it works, if it will not work, there will be changes again