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Tactics The PRTD is useful......Really.

snakedude24

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 16, 2006
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Wanted to make a small point....

[=KAS=]doomed and I were on Arad a couple weeks ago, goofing off. Neither of us particularly likes tank maps, so we were just blowing up enemy tanks with satchel charges, shooting each other with PRTDs, and generally being morons.:D

On accident, we discovered quite the strategy.

We both had the PRTD, and a Tiger was coming at us straight on in the South Field. doomed and I were proned behind a rock.

We fired at the exact same time - and killed it.

We tried it multiple times, and the double team really proved quite effective.

So our strategy is this - hop in a clown car, speed off to an obscure part of the map, go prone, wait for tanks, and BOOM.

Now, of course, what I just posted is akin to "More guns, more kills." This is true.

The real point of this post is trying to convince certain Russians that anti-tank is actually a useful class - you just have to employ teamwork.


So in conclusion, drink milk everyday.
 
http://www.redorchestragame.com/index.php?categoryid=3&p13_sectionid=2&p13_fileid=8

See that big red thingy on the front of the Tiger?

That's what we hit.

A 14.5x114 mm API round should NEVER have pierced any part of a Tiger's armour! It could damage optics and roadwheels, but never penetrate it's plate. The game seems like it uses a hit-points system, where you can destroy a tank even with a 50 mm gun simply by pouring rounds at it. I've noticed this with the PzKpfw III and SU-76 in game. They have fast-firing but relatively weak guns but could win with heavier tanks simply because of their faster reload times. I've engaged a KV-1S several times with the PzKpfw III and won almost every time because I could put more rounds in him than he could fire at me. Normally KV's are known to have been able to deflect even hundreds of shots from early-war German guns.
 
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http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/member.php?u=9010: Keep in mind RO models the KV-1*S*, which is a faster varient with less armor.

RO uses a hit point system if the shell penetrates. Which makes sense, even if it is a simplification The internal bits aren't modeled aside from the engine and ammo, but you can't fling AP shells through the inside of a tank and expect nothing to happen..

If it *doesn't* penetrate, you can bang away all day and nothing happens.
 
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wrong, getting damaged to yellow on a shot that bounces is a fairly common occurance in RO.

By the way, that "big red thingy on the front of the tiger" is actually a "big red thingy behind over 100mm of armor and steel". You shouldn't have been able to do anything even resembling hurting it.

Also, there has never been a report of a PTRD round causing a catastrophic explosion. Ammo is much, MUCH better-protected than that. Especially on a Tiger.

The PTRD is hideously overpowered, just like everything else that relates to vehicle combat for the Soviet team.
 
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wrong, getting damaged to yellow on a shot that bounces is a fairly common occurance in RO.

By the way, that "big red thingy on the front of the tiger" is actually a "big red thingy behind over 100mm of armor and steel". You shouldn't have been able to do anything even resembling hurting it.

Also, there has never been a report of a PTRD round causing a catastrophic explosion. Ammo is much, MUCH better-protected than that. Especially on a Tiger.

The PTRD is hideously overpowered, just like everything else that relates to vehicle combat for the Soviet team.


Well, right now, until the devs implement AT batterys, heavy mortars, mines, Molotov cocktails, etc....

The PTRD has to be overpowered. Maybe once we get some new content we can nerf it, but it's Russian infantry's only option right now.
 
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satchel charges make a great anti-tank weapon!

All you have to do is roll up in your clown car, toss a satchel in a tank's general direction, and if it's less than ten meters away that tank will probably die!

Then you hop back in to your clown car and drive off to do it again. Don't worry about getting shot, a clown car will usually survive a hit from any tank in the game. Bonus points if they're using HE; clown cars take two shots to be killed by it.

If a tank crewman happens to hop out of his tank while you're throwing your satchels, never fear! Once you're out of satchels you will automatically revert to your submachinegun, so that tank crewman doesn't stand a chance!
 
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There's nothing wrong with the PTRD

There's nothing wrong with the PTRD

Wanted to make a small point....

[=KAS=]doomed and I were on Arad a couple weeks ago, goofing off. Neither of us particularly likes tank maps, so we were just blowing up enemy tanks with satchel charges, shooting each other with PRTDs, and generally being morons.:D

On accident, we discovered quite the strategy.

We both had the PRTD, and a Tiger was coming at us straight on in the South Field. doomed and I were proned behind a rock.

We fired at the exact same time - and killed it.

We tried it multiple times, and the double team really proved quite effective.

So our strategy is this - hop in a clown car, speed off to an obscure part of the map, go prone, wait for tanks, and BOOM.

Now, of course, what I just posted is akin to "More guns, more kills." This is true.

The real point of this post is trying to convince certain Russians that anti-tank is actually a useful class - you just have to employ teamwork.


So in conclusion, drink milk everyday.

But firing in volleys makes it better.
 
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koalorka: Keep in mind RO models the KV-1*S*, which is a faster varient with less armor.

RO uses a hit point system if the shell penetrates. Which makes sense, even if it is a simplification The internal bits aren't modeled aside from the engine and ammo, but you can't fling AP shells through the inside of a tank and expect nothing to happen..

If it *doesn't* penetrate, you can bang away all day and nothing happens.

I see, but then again using this hit point system is also flawed because some tanks despite being penetrated multiple times could still survive and manage to function. This would be especially true with rear shots in the engine compartments. Suppose you caught a KV from the rear and managed to get a few shots into its engine block, immobilising the tank. Realistically the KV would continue absorbing these shots until it caught fire and forced the crew to evacuate. In game however you can hit the KV in the same non-critical spot and achieve a catastrophic explosion after 1-2 effective shots because the tank depleted its hit points.
 
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snakedude24 said:
We both had the PRTD, and a Tiger was coming at us straight on in the South Field. doomed and I were proned behind a rock. We fired at the exact same time - and killed it.

Impossible in real life for the PTRD to pentrate anywhere on the Tiger I. The weakest point on a Tiger I is the 80mm sides/rear (excluding the top/bottom of the tank) and the PTRD can penetrate 35 to 40mm at 100m.

snakedude24 said:
The PTRD has to be overpowered.

Perhaps but in game it is more than overpowered! Being overpowered would mean that the Soviet AT-rifle could destroy the StugIII F/8's, PanzerIII L's, PzIV F1 and F2 from the sides in a lesser amount of shots (the PzIV's could be destroyed from the rear too) but in game this "AT-rifle" kills tanks at a fantastic range from the front in as little as 1 well placed shot (no German tank in game can be penetrated from the front by a PTRD round*). It is also killing Tigers and Panthers which were totally invulnerable to AT-rifle penetration. So it is way more than overpowered! In fact it is using uranium tipped atomic bullets with rocket assisted propulsion!!

Koalorka said:
The game seems like it uses a hit-points system, where you can destroy a tank even with a 50 mm gun simply by pouring rounds at it. I've noticed this with the PzKpfw III

As much as I hate this "hit-point" system I have to disagree with you as the PzIII L in game is a late Panzer III armed with a 50mm KwK39 L/60. It was far from weak.

AP (at 30 degrees)
100m: 67mm
500m: 57mm
1000m: 44mm
1500m: 34mm
2000m: 26mm

APCR (at 30 degrees)
100m: 130mm
500m: 72mm
1000m: 38mm

The PanzerIII L could therefore engage the T-34 (both 76 and 85 because of their weak 45mm hulls) at just about 1000 meters or less with AP. It could engage the KV-1s (75mm hull front) at about 400 meters with APCR.

*The weakest German tank in the game front armorwise is the Pz IV F1-F2 which has 50mm of FRONTAL armor making it invulnerable to any PTRD or PTRS fire in real life which could only penetrate 35 to 40mm of armor under optimal conditions. Even the T-34 (both 85 and 76) with its relatively weak 45mm sloped hull armor can not be penetrated by the PTRD. Yet the PzIII L which has 70mm (spaced armor 50+20mm) of armor is frequently killed with one shot to the frontal armor! This is one of the biggest realism lapses in the game and needs to be remedied.
 
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Also, there has never been a report of a PTRD round causing a catastrophic explosion. Ammo is much, MUCH better-protected than that. Especially on a Tiger.

The PTRD is hideously overpowered, just like everything else that relates to vehicle combat for the Soviet team.

don't remember what book it was, but a red army ww2 veteran explained how he and his friend had blown up a "ferdinand" (probably an elephant) by hitting it's crew compartment and apparently causing its ammunition to blow up. AFAIK elephant is fairly heavily armoured. I can't say how often stuff like this happened, but it's possible with the short ranges of combat in RO.
 
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wrong, getting damaged to yellow on a shot that bounces is a fairly common occurance in RO.

Also, there has never been a report of a PTRD round causing a catastrophic explosion. Ammo is much, MUCH better-protected than that. Especially on a Tiger.

The PTRD is hideously overpowered, just like everything else that relates to vehicle combat for the Soviet team.

1- Never seen it happen.
2- Remeber RO counts "combat ineffective" as "Dead" and blows up tanks to get them off the field and make it clear they're dead. On fire? EXPLODE! Crew killed? EXPLODE! Crew bails out of damage tank? EXPLODE! Its a compromise to avoid having the maps cluttered with a large amount of dead hulks.
3- And the Germans have far too many tanks. IIRC there were more T-34s than every single tank model the Germans ever made..and the Soviets weren't spread out over multiple fronts.

Aside from the SU-76 and T-60, I think the tanks are all right. The SU takes too much killing, and the T-60 hits too hard.
 
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Jacko the Panda said:
don't remember what book it was, but a red army ww2 veteran explained how he and his friend had blown up a "ferdinand" (probably an elephant) by hitting it's crew compartment and apparently causing its ammunition to blow up. AFAIK elephant is fairly heavily armoured. I can't say how often stuff like this happened, but it's possible with the short ranges of combat in RO.

Simple answer the Soviets always confused Ferdinands/Elefants with StugIIIs so it was most definately a Stug. I found some good accounts of this in battlefield.ru. Given its ballistics the PTRD could not penetrate any armor thicker than 35-40mm at its optimal penetration. The Ferdinand/Elefant had 200mm of armor fontally and 80mm on the sides/rear.

Phoenix-D said:
Aside from the SU-76 and T-60, I think the tanks are all right. The SU takes too much killing, and the T-60 hits too hard.

Right a 122mm round deflecting from a PzIV F2 is historically accaurate as well as a T-34 (both verisons) taking a direct hit of an 88mm and surviving is also correct.:rolleyes:
 
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