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Some German tanks and Russion AT gun

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#61
Well this is because the German side in RO gets the short end of the stick with early war tanks which are so rare you would not encounter them in regular warfare (Pz IV F1,F2 Stug F/8) while the Soviets get all their best and most numerous tanks (T-34/76 T-34/85 IS-2) rather than early war tanks such as the T-26. Even the the one light Soviet tank in game (T-60) is overpowered and can take on a Pz III L and destroy it which is unrealistic. The Tiger I which this post is about is severly weakened from what it should be especially its gun which was one of the most feared on the battlefield at that time. The Tiger I should be about as strong as the IS-2 gun wise. (See below) The IS-2 is usually owning most tanks in 1 shot (which is realistic) yet the Tiger's infamous 88mm is useless. It takes 2 shots to down a T-34 76 or 85 (45mm of hull armor for both) if your lucky and it does not deflect. Not to mention the T-34, SU-76, and KV-1s (not as much) can unrealistically angle themselves and are almost invulnerable to all AP rounds.

Here be armor and penetration data:
Panzerkampfwagen VI Ausf. E "Tiger":

Code:
Hull Front (Upper) :100mm @ 80​
 
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#62
All right you guys heres my armor penitration data I have gleamed from the web... (Yoshiro has said its quite close to what thy got for there data.)

To read this it gose like this.: Name of round (including gun caliber), type of round, Range in meters, then penitration at said range... I.e. AP 100m (20mm) an AP round capable of penitrating 20mm of armor at 100 meters

also note I only went up to 1,000m as that is the max range of the guns in game -as the max draw distence is 1,100m... wich would make any data at ranges above 1,000m rather moot.

(Note: all data for the german guns is for a 30 degree angle to the target.)

20mm L50 (I've added this one in for this post)
AP 100m (20mm), 500m (14mm)
APCR 100m (40mm), 500m (20mm)

37mm L46 (I've added this one in for this post)
AP 100m (39mm), 500m (29mm), 1000m (22mm)
APCR 100m (64mm), 500m (31mm)

50mm L42
APC 100m (55mm), 500m (47mm), 1000m (37mm)
APCR 100m (94mm), 500m (55mm), 1000m (21mm)

50mm L60
APC 100m (69mm), 500m (59mm), 1000m (47mm)
APCR 100m (130mm), 500m (72mm), 1000m (38mm)

75mm L24
APC 100m (41mm), 500m (38mm), 1000m (35mm)
HEAT (Gr.38 Hl/B) 75mm all ranges

75mm L43
APCBC 100m (99mm), 500m (91mm), 1000m (81mm)
ABCR 100m (124mm), 500m (108mm), 1000m (87mm)
HEAT (Gr. 38 Hl/B) 75mm all ranges

75mm L48
APCBC 100m (106mm), 500m (96mm), 1000m (85mm)
ABCR 100m (143mm), 500m (120mm), 1000m (97mm)
HEAT (Gr. 38 Hl/B) 75mm all ranges

75mm L70
APCBC 100m (138mm), 500m (124mm), 1000m (111mm)
ABCR 100m (194mm), 500m (174mm), 1000m (149mm)
HEAT (Gr. 38 Hl/B) 75mm all ranges

88mm L56
APCBC 100m (120mm), 500m (110mm), 1000m (100mm)
ABCR 100m (170mm), 500m (155mm), 1000m (138mm)
HEAT (Gr. 39 Hl) 90mm all ranges

88mm L71
APCBC 100m (202mm), 500m (185mm), 1000m (165mm)
ABCR 100m (237mm), 500m (217mm), 1000m (193mm)
HEAT (Gr. 39 Hl) 90mm all ranges

And now for there ability to penitrate soviet tanks that can be found in RO. Note this is from the front only. (but I have provied enough info to extrapolate side penitration distences.) Also the armor listed is the practical armor if one takes into acount the added armor the slope gives you.

T-60A (added to give a better idea as to how weekly armord this guy realy is. -a BT-7 or T-26 has "basicly" the same armor as this guy -or less...)
(hull 35mm & 15mm, turret 25mm)
Hull Front 36mm
Hull side 15mm
Turret Front 28mm
Turret Side 28mm
Mantlet 35mm

front vs 50mm L42 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 700m
front vs 50mm L60 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 75mm L24 APC 1,000m
front vs 75mm L43 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 75mm L48 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 75mm L70 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 88mm L56 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 88mm L71 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m

T-34/76 (45mm hull and 52mm turret)
hull front 52mm
hull side 59mm
turret front 52mm
turret side 60mm
mantlet 52mm

front vs 50mm L42 100m (APC), 300m (APCR)
front vs 50mm L60 400m (APC), 600m (APCR)
front vs 75mm L24 HEAT only (500m efective, max ~1,000m)
front vs 75mm L43 1,000m (APCBC), 1,000m (APCR)
front vs 75mm L48 1,000m (APCBC), 1,000m (APCR)
front vs 75mm L70 1,000m (APCBC), 1,000m (APCR)
front vs 88mm L56 1,000m (APCBC), 1,000m (APCR)
front vs 88mm L71 1,000m (APCBC), 1,000m (APCR)

T-34/85 (45mm hull and 75-52mm turret)
hull front 52mm
hull side 59mm
turret front 90mm
Turret side 80mm
mantlet 90mm

front vs 50mm L42 APC- 100m hull, turret 0m, APCR 300m hull, ~100m turret
front vs 50mm L60 APC- 400m hull, turret 0m, APCR- 600m hull, 300m turret
front vs 75mm L24 HEAT only
front vs 75mm L43 APCBC- 500m, APCR- 800m
front vs 75mm L48 APCBC- 800m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 75mm L70 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 88mm L56 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 88mm L71 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m

KV-1 (75mm hull and 75mm turret) this is the 1941 type. (and not the one in game IIRC.)
Hull front 87mm
Hull Side 75mm
Turret front 80mm
Turret side 78mm
Mantlet 90mm

front vs 50mm L42 APCR- 100m
front vs 50mm L60 APCR- 300m
front vs 75mm L24 Heat only
front vs 75mm L43 APCBC- 500m, APCR- 800m
front vs 75mm L48 APCBC- 800m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 75mm L70 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 88mm L56 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m
front vs 88mm L71 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m

IS-2 (turret 100-90mm and hull 120-90mm)
Hull front 140mm
Hull Side 93mm
Turret front 100mm
Turret side 95mm
Mantlet 100mm

front vs 50mm L42 0m
front vs 50mm L60 APCR- turret 200m
front vs 75mm L24 HEAT only
front vs 75mm L43 APCBC- turret 100m, APCR- turret 500m
front vs 75mm L48 APCBC- turret 300m, APCR- hull 100m, turret 800m
front vs 75mm L70 APCBC- hull 100m, turret 1,000m, APCR- hull 1,000m, turret 1,000m
front vs 88mm L56 APCBC- turret 1,000m, APCR- hull 700m, turret 1,000m
front vs 88mm L71 APCBC- 1,000m, APCR- 1,000m

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part two is for the soviets and there guns. (this also inclueds a few tanks that are not in RO but Kabex would like to have. )
Note: the German gun tables are done with a 30 degree angle to the target, the soviets are at a 0 degree angle to the target. (a head on impact -this is due to more compleat data I could find for this angle.)

45mm L46
AP 100m (52mm), 500m (43mm), 1,000m (35mm)
APCR 100m (80mm?), 500m (50mm?), 1,000m (NA) (The data I found had 80mm at 500m wich is rather odd... so I put is down at a lower distence.)

76mm L42
APBC 100m (88mm), 500m (69mm), 1,000m (60mm)
APCR 100m (102mm), 500m (90mm), 1,000m (60mm)
HEAT 75mm all ranges (not used on the KV-1 or T-34 -or it would go kaboom in the gun:) )

85mm L54
APBC 100m (119mm), 500m (111mm), 1,000m (102mm)
APCR 100m (180mm), 500m (140mm), 1,000m (110mm)

100mm L59
APHE 100m (155mm), 500m (135mm), 1,000m (115mm)
APBC 100m (160mm), 500m (150mm), 1,000m (135mm)

122mm L48
APHE 100m (NA), 500m (150mm), 1,000m (138mm)
APBC 100m (NA), 500m (157mm), 1,000m (147mm)

Panzer III G (30mm all round)
Hull front 30mm
Hull side 30mm
Turret front 31mm
Turret side 33mm
Mantlet 37mm

front vs 45mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 500m+
front vs 76mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

Panzer III L (front 50mm, sides 30mm +20mm space armor on front)
Hull front 51+20mm
Hull side 30mm
Turret front 52+20mm
Turret side 33mm
Mantlet 50+20mm

front vs 45mm APBC 0m, APCR 100m?
front vs 76mm APBC 500m, APCR 800m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

Panzer IV F (front 50mm, sides 30mm)
Hull front 51mm
Hull side 30mm
Turret front 51mm
Turret side 33mm
Mantlet 50mm

front vs 45mm APBC 100m, APCR 500m
front vs 76mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

Panzer IV G (front 50mm, sides 30mm) ("F2" identical)
Hull front 51mm
Hull side 30mm
Turret front 51mm
Turret side 33mm
Mantlet 50mm

front vs 45mm APBC 100m, APCR 500m
front vs 76mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

Panzer IV H (hull 80mm & 30mm, turret 50mm & 30mm)
Hull front 81mm
Hull side 30mm
Turret front 51mm
Turret side 33mm
Mantlet 50mm

front vs 45mm APBC turret 100m, APCR hull 100m, turret 500m
front vs 76mm APBC hull 300m, turret 1,000m, APCR hull 700m, turret 1,000m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

Panzer V G (hull 80mm & 50mm, turret 100mm & 45mm)
Hull front 98mm
Hull side 58mm
Turret front 102mm
Turret side 50mm
Mantlet 100mm

front vs 45mm 0m
front vs 76mm APBC 0m, APCR 100m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

Panzer VI E (100mm front, 80mm sides)
Hull front 101mm
Hull side 80mm
Turret front 101mm
Turret side 80mm
Mantlet 100-120mm

front vs 45mm 0m
front vs 76mm 0m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

Panzer VI B (hull 150mm & 80mm, turret 180mm & 80mm)
Hull front 196mm
Hull side 88mm
Turret front 182mm
Turret side 85mm
Mantlet 154mm

front vs 45mm 0m
front vs 76mm 0m
front vs 85mm APBC 0m, APCR hull 0m, turret 100m (mantlet 400m?)
front vs 100mm APHE mantlet 100m, APBC mantlet 500m
front vs 122mm APHE mantlet 500m, APBC mantlet 500m (turret 100m?)

(note) I do not know if a round penitrates the mantlet it penitrates the tank or would it have to penitrate the frontal turret armor as well. I would asume the former as the mantlet covers the hole in the turret thats made becuse of the gun mounting.

StuG III F (front 50mm, sides 30mm +30mm on front hull on later units)
Hull front 51mm
Hull side 30mm
Mantlet 50mm

front vs 45mm APBC 100m, APCR 500m
front vs 76mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m

StuG III G (late) (front 80mm, sides 30mm - 50+30mm on early units (note: driver cabin remaind 50+30mm)
Hull front 81mm
Hull side 30mm
Mantlet 50mm

front vs 45mm APBC 0m, APCR hull 100m,
front vs 76mm APBC hull 300m, APCR hull 700m,
front vs 85mm APBC 1,000m, APCR 1,000m
front vs 100mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m
front vs 122mm APHE 1,000m, APBC 1,000m


notes: 0m = the round is unlikely to penitrate at all at the given target
Hull 100m means the round will only penitrate the hull at this distence.

So any qustions or coments?

sorces
http://www.panzerworld.net/armourcalculator.html
http://afvdb.50megs.com/germany/index.html
http://gva.freeweb.hu/index.html
http://www.battlefield.ru/
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/
http://forum.axishistory.com/
Click to expand...
 
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#63
Maschine Pistole-38 said:
Heres another tank bug, the Tiger which had numbers below 1,300 has seemingly unlimited number of respawns. You what the 'true pwnage power' of a Tiger? Realize that it was also extremely rare and i'd be more than happy to see their respawns limited to one or two.
Click to expand...

Mmmmm, I have a book, a small one, that has German/Japenese/Russian/American/British/Italian production figures. It listed 3500 Tigers... That may be Tiger I's II's and the King Tiger's, but I dunno. I recently moved, so I'll see about digging that ****er up to show you. Albert Speer or whatever his name is commented on the German productions a lot. I think he is like the minister of industry or something...
 
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#64
Guys if you have nothing to do, I can help you. In 1945 Americans in Austria have removeda tourret with shot down IS-2and have taken out it on proving ground in Aberdeen (?) . There at it fired different types of shells. Reports appeared on the Internet, but I do not have not enough time and knowledge of English. Try it to find.
For certain there are reports with on same tests for T-34, Pz-4 , Panthera .
There is still very interesting document on tests Т-34 and KV in the USA in 1942.
 
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#65
If the tanks are made to be realistic then Tiger's must be VERY limited in numbers. Also somewhat percise airstrikes need to be included, where you call the airstrike in and it trys to follow the tank, not just fall where the tank was two minutes ago, to show the massive air superiority the Russians had. To be fair the Germans can also have heavy air support in the beginning.
 
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#67
Rommel, why don't you begin to understand what nearly everybody is telling you?

> The Tiger's armor is modelled almost perfectly. It gets pierced frontally easily by the late war tanks and is nearly invulnerable by the 76.2mm gun.

> The Tiger's gun has the same problem as every gun, it bounces off too often. Same for IS-2 and whatever. Only in the IS-2, a bouncing off shell = your death, because the enemy will kill you almost certainly while you take ages to reload.

I have seen the 122mm gun bounce off a 90
 
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#69
BSE|Vietcong said:
And have you taken a look at the KV-1? It is easily destroyed by PzIII that were not at all capable of penetrating it at all. It even had more armor than a Tiger I, at least frontally
Click to expand...
We have the KV-1s in game. Only 75mm of armor at the front. Not hard for the 50mm L60 to penetrate. Why they would add this useless tank, I don't know.
 
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#71
Sichartshofen said:
We have the KV-1s in game. Only 75mm of armor at the front. Not hard for the 50mm L60 to penetrate. Why they would add this useless tank, I don't know.
Click to expand...

Ostfront has the PzIIIL with the L/42 cannon.

50mm L42
APC 100m (55mm), 500m (47mm), 1000m (37mm)
APCR 100m (94mm), 500m (55mm), 1000m (21mm)

50mm L60
APC 100m (69mm), 500m (59mm), 1000m (47mm)
APCR 100m (130mm), 500m (72mm), 1000m (38mm)
Click to expand...

We were also given the KV1s probably so that it won't horribly unbalance the sides in the early war maps.
 
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#75
All of this bickering is silly because RO's penetration and damage system isn't very realistic. THAT's why your precious Tiger is getting wasted by T34/76's.
Granted, it's weighted in such a way that the Tiger will have an advantage over the T34, so at least there's that.

But the odds of being able to sit somewhere and be impervious to ANY cannon fire is pretty small (in this game) since we use a cumulative hull damage system.


My advice, don't be a dedicated tanker. If you only want to tank, go play something else until they figure out how to model their penetration and damage model (I suggest WWII Online for purist tankers).

And for the record, you shouldn't have to "Brew" a tank to get the kill on it. Most crew compartment penetrations were enough to kill the crew members if not at least panic them into bailing. If RO were anything like reality, the first guy who shoots (and hits) would almost certainly win.
 
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#76
Plaid13 said:
I dont think anything is really wrong with the tiger that isnt wrong with the other tanks. Mobility and tracks that are very hard to knock off. But the tiger is strong as hell vs the tanks it should be strong against. Try playing orel 76vs 88 and you will see just how strong the tiger is. The reason the tiger seems weak in the offical maps is because they are all late war maps vs the more powerful tanks. the time in the war when the tiger was the all powerful weapon its thought of was early on when the russians were in the smaller weaker tanks and the tt34/76 Those 76mm rounds do bounce off nonstop in the game as they should. So basicly the real problem isnt the tank isnt right its more like the maps arnt right. They just dont put the tiger in offical maps vs the tanks that it was really powerful against.
Click to expand...

I one shotted a tiger, from front on, with a t34/85.

Any t34 was NOT able to penetrate the tigers front armour AT ANY RANGE.
 
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#78
Heler said:
I one shotted a tiger, from front on, with a t34/85.

Any t34 was NOT able to penetrate the tigers front armour AT ANY RANGE.
Click to expand...

They up-gunned the T34 for a reason :rolleyes:

Heler said:
The russians already own the early war maps anyways!

THe t34 is an unstoppable slanted armor force!
Click to expand...

Which maps? Bonderavo? Thats the only early war tank map. Unless of course you want to count Orel and BlackDayJuly which I pity you if you can't kill them in those maps.
 
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#79
Is there evidence besides ballistic charts that prove the T34/85 could penetrate the Tigers frontal armor.

Maschine Pistole-38 said:
Even so, it can't penetrate even 75mm at 100m.
Click to expand...
Actually, the 50mm L60 can penetrate 99mm at 100 meters at 90 degrees or 67mm at 60 degrees. KV-1s doesn't have sloped armor, so the PzIII L wouldn't have trouble knocking a KV-1s out. The PzIV F1 with the 75mm L24 wouldn't be able to.
 
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