50 years of sexy on one table.
Evil black rifles.
Mine!
One of these is a deadly armor-piercing cop-killer...?
5.7x28, 8mm Mauser, and .45-70 compared.
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- Thread starter [CiA]Stiletto
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50 years of sexy on one table.
Evil black rifles.
Mine!
One of these is a deadly armor-piercing cop-killer...?
5.7x28, 8mm Mauser, and .45-70 compared.
Here in California 5.7 is illegal. i heard 17 hmr goes through cop vests like butter though. 10/22 coverted to 17 with a 400 drum mag will do some damage to teh coppers.
i heard 17 hmr goes through cop vests like butter though. 10/22 coverted to 17 with a 400 drum mag will do some damage to teh coppers.
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Yer like the whopping great 7.92mm mauser is going to be stopped by a puny kevlar vest either Is that FN a semi version or what?
Is that FN a semi version or what?
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So that thing actually does shoot. Nice rifle, congrats.
Speaking of which, I went to a gun show yesterday with an AR in mind. Hell you can't get an AR under $900 these days it seems.
Found a Keltec SU16 with folding stock for $500+ but the darn thing was 90% plastic like those Astrian tuperware guns.
Then I found a sweet deal for $280, a 223 Russian Saiga carbine. And he gave me a good deal on my Romak992 trade in to boot. You can't find a 223 for cheaper than that.
Can't wait to take it and my new K31 to the range to see what they can do.
Speaking of which, I went to a gun show yesterday with an AR in mind. Hell you can't get an AR under $900 these days it seems.
Found a Keltec SU16 with folding stock for $500+ but the darn thing was 90% plastic like those Astrian tuperware guns.
Then I found a sweet deal for $280, a 223 Russian Saiga carbine. And he gave me a good deal on my Romak992 trade in to boot. You can't find a 223 for cheaper than that.
Can't wait to take it and my new K31 to the range to see what they can do.
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SUs are pretty nice rifles, actually. You probably won't ever get it sub-MOA like you could with a tricked-out AR, but the idea is that they're "sport-utility" rifles, not match guns.
Also, you can build your own AR (and a pretty nice one) for <$700, IIRC.
Also, you can build your own AR (and a pretty nice one) for <$700, IIRC.
Yup. SBRed PS90. I don't think there are actually any transferable P90s.
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you have fine taste in p0rn, stilletto, "hell, you could come over to my house and f*uck my sister!" (Sorry had to quote Sgt. Hartman there...)
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Yeah that's an option I guess.
I almost bought a complete lower but then I hate the thought of having half a gun for another six month while I save up for the upper.
I almost bought a complete lower but then I hate the thought of having half a gun for another six month while I save up for the upper.
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Nice toys! I keep thinking maybe about getting an OLL and building an AR, but I don't really like .223 that much.. but I'm getting soft or something, because I'm starting to not really dislike it. Maybe I'll build a 7.62x39 AR or something.... Being stuck with no pistol grip (there are options ) and ten-round mags would be crappy, though, especially the ten-round mags...
Wrong. 5.7mm FNs ARE legal here. I've shot two LEGAL Five-seveNs at Chabot. The PS90 is illegal because it's a rifle with a pistol grip stock and a detachable mag, therefore an SB23 assault-weapon (banned by features.) If you could fit a PS90 reciever and barrel into a rifle stock that is a more "traditional" stock, with no thumbhole or pistol grips, and then saw (probably screws off, actually) the flash-hider off it (add muzzle brake or thread cover silver-soldered onto the barrel), you could own and shoot it in the PRK legally, but you'd be restricted to ten-round mags. Or... if you could find a way to make a ten-round mag non-detachable without the use of a tool, and found a way to LOAD said ten-rounder without removing it, you could keep it as-is...
None of the 5.7 FN ammo sold to us civvies in the US is AP, you'll note that the 5.7 round he had is a hollow-point.
For more on the PRK's crazy firearms laws, just shoot myself or Soup Nazi a PM. We're both CA gun-owners who are pretty up on the state of things here.
@ Zoring: You picked the wrong big penetrator. The .45-70 is WAY nastier. I wouldn't be surprised if a Class IV vest (rated to .30-06 M2 AP) couldn't stop it.
I keep thinking maybe about getting an OLL and building an AR, but I don't really like .223 that much.. but I'm getting soft or something, because I'm starting to not really dislike it. Maybe I'll build a 7.62x39 AR or something.... Being stuck with no pistol grip (there are options ) and ten-round mags would be crappy, though, especially the ten-round mags...Here in California 5.7 is illegal.
Wrong. 5.7mm FNs ARE legal here. I've shot two LEGAL Five-seveNs at Chabot. The PS90 is illegal because it's a rifle with a pistol grip stock and a detachable mag, therefore an SB23 assault-weapon (banned by features.) If you could fit a PS90 reciever and barrel into a rifle stock that is a more "traditional" stock, with no thumbhole or pistol grips, and then saw (probably screws off, actually) the flash-hider off it (add muzzle brake or thread cover silver-soldered onto the barrel), you could own and shoot it in the PRK legally, but you'd be restricted to ten-round mags. Or... if you could find a way to make a ten-round mag non-detachable without the use of a tool, and found a way to LOAD said ten-rounder without removing it, you could keep it as-is...
None of the 5.7 FN ammo sold to us civvies in the US is AP, you'll note that the 5.7 round he had is a hollow-point.
For more on the PRK's crazy firearms laws, just shoot myself or Soup Nazi a PM. We're both CA gun-owners who are pretty up on the state of things here.
@ Zoring: You picked the wrong big penetrator. The .45-70 is WAY nastier. I wouldn't be surprised if a Class IV vest (rated to .30-06 M2 AP) couldn't stop it.
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Buddy of mine got in on the FN 5.7 when they first became available for the civilian market. Even a year after they were legalized dealers where still confused and saying they couldn't sell them to the general public. It's one of the easiest pistols you'll ever shoot and if the ammo ever gets affordable again and I can find one of the original models available (don't care for the grip and mag release on the newer ones) then I'll buy one in a second. There is one round manfactured by FN that is not banned by BATFE that is effective against body armor (though not truly armor piercing) but FN chose to pull it from the market (probably due to the fear of a massive lawsuit later on down the road). You can still find SS192, but it's expensive. The crapy thing was that FN pulled it from the market before the commercial grade ammo (SS195 & SS197) was even available. A 50 round box of 192 was going for $120+. They are down to around $50 a box now. The SS195 and SS197 are a much lower velocity round which kind of negates the uniqueness and efffectiveness of the round.
[CiA]Stiletto- That doesn't look like the civilian model PS90. I thought FN made all of the civilian model's with grey or green stocks (Not to mention a much longer barrel)? Did you do a barrel conversion on that and if so how much did it cost you excluding the federal stamp? Also, where did you get the black stock from? Damn fine job making it look like an original P90.
[CiA]Stiletto- That doesn't look like the civilian model PS90. I thought FN made all of the civilian model's with grey or green stocks (Not to mention a much longer barrel)? Did you do a barrel conversion on that and if so how much did it cost you excluding the federal stamp? Also, where did you get the black stock from? Damn fine job making it look like an original P90.
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Not my PS90. HOWEVER...
$200 tax stamp for SBR.
Couple hundred $ for the actual short barrel.
And it was still the gray stock, just that lighting (among other things) make it look darker.
I think it was SS195 which is in fact full-house ammo, just with a non-AP bullet. *shrug*
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Also: IIRC, .45-70 doesn't penetrate armor for ****. Doesn't help you much if it still crushes your rib cage, though.
$200 tax stamp for SBR.
Couple hundred $ for the actual short barrel.
And it was still the gray stock, just that lighting (among other things) make it look darker.
I think it was SS195 which is in fact full-house ammo, just with a non-AP bullet. *shrug*
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Also: IIRC, .45-70 doesn't penetrate armor for ****. Doesn't help you much if it still crushes your rib cage, though.
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I wouldn't bet on it... It tends to go through stuff other bullets won't, and I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't defeat kevlar, though I haven't seen it tried. I'd love to see it, though.
.45-70 vs Ballistic glass: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot6.htm
.45-70 vs 6 walls worth of sheetrock and a box of bricks to simulate a brick wall: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
All I have to say is "Yikes!"
.45-70 vs Ballistic glass: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot6.htm
.45-70 vs 6 walls worth of sheetrock and a box of bricks to simulate a brick wall: http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm
All I have to say is "Yikes!"
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Didn't Quigley have a 45-90, or a 45-120? I thought that was part of the movie... his special cartrige.
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If I remember right (which I might not) Quigley used a 45-110. The first number is the caliber. Calibre for you folks across the pond. In this case it's .45 inch. The second number is the weight of the propellant charge of black powder. The 45-70 = 45 caliber slug and 70 grains of black powder. 45-110 = same caliber, more powder.
I said propellant charge because there are some black powder replacements out there. It may take 50 grains of Brand X to equal 70 grains of black powder. The case is still called by the equivalent charge in black powder.
In this case it's .45 inch. The second number is the weight of the propellant charge of black powder. The 45-70 = 45 caliber slug and 70 grains of black powder. 45-110 = same caliber, more powder.I said propellant charge because there are some black powder replacements out there. It may take 50 grains of Brand X to equal 70 grains of black powder. The case is still called by the equivalent charge in black powder.
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