Submachine Gun Suggestions
- Thread starter Kipper
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Ive shot a MP-40 indoors before (it was darker than outdoors) and I dont remember any smoke at all, and the flash we extremely neglible (in fact, I dont remember seeing any at all when I was shooting). My target was anywere from 25m-50m and I put some tight shotgroups onto it. The recoil of the Mp-40 in RO is way off to how easy it was to control when I shot it in real life.
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No goddamned tanks in here!!
I myself have fired an MP-40 and have seen its accuracy at 50m. I've not fired it farther than that.
I myself have fired an MP-40 and have seen its accuracy at 50m. I've not fired it farther than that.
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I have fired several sub-machine class weapons. Being an MP5A4, IMI Uzi, M1A1 Thompson and the everclassic 1921 Thompson.
In several well lit, and poorly lit enviornments. In all cases, the muzzle flash, smoke and kick of the weapon generally bar your vision. Which is more of a reason to control your bursts. So you can actually see if your target is still in front of you, or off to the side 20 meters from hauling *** at your incoming onslaught.
Also to say, im pretty sure the MP40 had one of the shorter barrels of wartime SMG's. Not to sure, but I think.
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Why drop it? its a big thorn in the spine of an otherwise great game, i dont think it can be said too often!
Theres something very wrong when i'll happily trade my PPSH in for ANY other weapon i come across, and i will, i'll take a Mosin over it even on a purely CQB map, and certainly an MP-40! thats a much better weapon in RO.
In reallity, it was the best SMG of the war, loved by both the Ruskies and Gerries, who would pick them up any chance they got, and even produced a limited number of them chambered for 9mm.
Everything i've ever read about the PPSH says it was a great weapon, that featured supricing good range and accuracy thanks to its very flat trajectory, long barrel and necked round, and very low recoil, yet in RO, you might aswell forget about shooting it whilst standing, its pointless even at point blank range, you can get decent results if crouched and the target is no more than 10-20 meters away but that takes alot of practice (and even then, sometimes it decides to recoil all over the place at random, which no amount of practice will help), and if the target is any further away you'll never hit with more than a single shot, and its only truely usefull if prone or rested.. its an awfull weapon in RO that will only work decently in a few circumstances, wheras with the MP-40, even though it too is porked, atleast its usefull and somewhat versatile, and i'll toss my PPSH and pick one up any chance i get.
Its screwed up, and as a result, i'll only pick a class that has the PPSH if i have no other choice (Tank commander, or the team needs a decent squad leader), and will dump it for the first weapon i come across, and it irks me to no end, i love the PPSH, not only because its a good weapon, but for its historical significance, but its so terrible in RO that using it is pointless, i have practiced so much with it my head hurts just thinking about it, but still you can only get so good, because the recoil is so random, and with the rate of fire you just cant work with it unlike the MP-40.
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the question is: should all guns in RO have the same caracteristics and recoils as in RL?
if yes, then i think the russians might have a bigger advantage than what they had in RL. since the germs had better skills and the ruskys were badly trained, in this game both teams have about the same skills, so this would give an advantage to the rusky team...
if yes, then i think the russians might have a bigger advantage than what they had in RL. since the germs had better skills and the ruskys were badly trained, in this game both teams have about the same skills, so this would give an advantage to the rusky team...
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You could counteract such an advantage with making the leader more important e.g. having a larger effect of enemy fire for the russians if their leader is not close or is close compared to german leaders, or increasing the response time of artillery for the russians.
Making other weapons like the MG42 more realistic would also decrease the russians chances so this could counteract the (unrealistic high?) russians skill as well.
And as Grobut has posted above, if he has the PPSH he currently is taking the MP-40 whenever he sees one, it would be the other way round if the values would be changed, but still I guess the difference between both of them would shrink. It is not like one side had toy guns while the other had mini guns either way they copied others work or improved their own.
Maybe the weapons would be "unbalanced" - not allways an exact counterpart with a different skin - but for that, if the unbalance is too big, are mappers imo. Givening the complete inferior side more respawns, make them defend, give them better artillery support ...
Small differences are not bad, they make a game spicy and motivating, at least for me.
Making other weapons like the MG42 more realistic would also decrease the russians chances so this could counteract the (unrealistic high?) russians skill as well.
And as Grobut has posted above, if he has the PPSH he currently is taking the MP-40 whenever he sees one, it would be the other way round if the values would be changed, but still I guess the difference between both of them would shrink. It is not like one side had toy guns while the other had mini guns either way they copied others work or improved their own.
Maybe the weapons would be "unbalanced" - not allways an exact counterpart with a different skin - but for that, if the unbalance is too big, are mappers imo. Givening the complete inferior side more respawns, make them defend, give them better artillery support ...
Small differences are not bad, they make a game spicy and motivating, at least for me.
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Well, lets not get ahead of ourselves, its not like Russian infantry where retarded bufoons running around like headless chickens, they did know how to use their weapons.
But it is true that early in the war, they lacked experianced leadership, that was at times slow to adapt to more modern combat tactics, but that shoulden't magically make PPSH's crap.
Now dont get me wrong, i have long since accepted that RO is not a hardcore-to-the-bone simulator, and thats fine by me, for the most part RO has enough realism to keep me happy, and is most certainly fun to play, but, i cannot accept that the PPSH is so useless.. the Gerries get a useable SMG in their MP-40, and the STG-44 on some maps which is nothing short of awesome, but the Russian SMG's.. they are total crap, the PPD-40 is somewhat usefull (if crouched), but i dont want to use it because it was a very rare weapon that should by no means exist in the numbers we see in RO, likewise the PPS-43 (you can allmost fire this one standing), which was predominantly issued to tank crews and Para's, it was used by infantry, but never in the numbers we see in RO, it was the PPSH that took the Ruskies to Berlin, and it is the PPSH i want to use!
Now i can live with it beeing slightly more recoil heavy than it really was to not totally destroy game balance, but it needs to be toned way down from where it is currently, so it is atleast as usefull as the MP-40 (which right now, is kicking its arse, it can be fired whilst standing making it usefull for CQB, whereas the PPSH gunner must atleast crouch, and its actually usefull at range too when just crouched, where the PPSH is nothing more than a scattergun at best, even if you prone and rest it).
The game is infact heavilly unbalanced as is, in favor of the Germans, the MP-40 is plenty usefull, and the STG awesome, but the PPSH is a joke, and a bad one at that, at clouse range i can control the vertical recoil reasonably if crouched (but not at all if standing), but the random horizontal recoil it has means that, even at point blank, im likely to spend around 10 rounds on a single target (you cant really burst it, just tapping the mouse will easilly fire 2 rounds or even 3, and with the heavy recoil, you need more time to adjust, you use a 71 round drum supricingly fast in RO).
I also find it very annoying that i must play with an unreasonably high mouse sensitivity to even considder useing an SMG, but you must if you are to have any hope of success currently.
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My suggestions for the SMG's are :
The weaker recoils are already in the game,problem is that while standing there are also values that have a very high recoil as a result(Thats what i mean with patterns)Removeing these values and getting them more close to the weaker recoil values would solve the problem.
Thats also the reason why many people thought the SMG recoils got patched with the new release,they just got the weak recoil patterns as these get selected randomly by the game.
At the moment everybody just goes into a crouched position with weapons like the PPSH41.Makeing shooting more controllable while standing isn't changeing the game because it is already part of the game.
It just more realistic and authentic,these weapons are made for assaulting,often while not beeing crouched or prone,so shooting while just standing should be more controllable.
It shouldn t be too much work either as it s basically about removeing things(reduceing values)
Grobut your post is just awesome and it s basically what i am thinking.THX
THX for reading
- Reduce the heavy recoil patterns while standing for the PPSH41.The ones where you fire a short burst and the gun goes crazy,especially with low fps.
- Reduce the recoil while standing and beeing leaned(All SMG'S) !!! Something very important in my opinion,these weapons are made for close targets and urban environments=Leaning and peeking around corners and doors.Specially the PPSH41 has some recoil patterns that are unacceptable while standing and beeing leaned.Other SMG's defnitly do have too much recoil while standing and leaning aswell but the PPSH41 is the one where it s worst.All SMG's should be tone down while standing and beeing leaned.Of course some recoil patterns are fine but then others are very heavy and you ll never know what pattern you ll get.
- Remove the heavy muzzle flashs and IS blocking smoke effects for all SMG's so one has a clear field of view while shooting(STG44 is the perfect example how it should be done).It s impossible to realise when an enemy is down on servers where death messages are off,even when the enemy is 10 meters away!!!As people who already shot some of these weapons posted,the huge amount of smoke and muzzle flash effect isn't realistic.Of course there needs to be some kind of effect so the shooting isn't to sterile,that s why i gave the STG44 as an example,you have a clear field of view when it comes to the IS and the effects are beneath it and it feels great to shoot this gun.
The weaker recoils are already in the game,problem is that while standing there are also values that have a very high recoil as a result(Thats what i mean with patterns)Removeing these values and getting them more close to the weaker recoil values would solve the problem.
Thats also the reason why many people thought the SMG recoils got patched with the new release,they just got the weak recoil patterns as these get selected randomly by the game.
At the moment everybody just goes into a crouched position with weapons like the PPSH41.Makeing shooting more controllable while standing isn't changeing the game because it is already part of the game.
It just more realistic and authentic,these weapons are made for assaulting,often while not beeing crouched or prone,so shooting while just standing should be more controllable.
It shouldn t be too much work either as it s basically about removeing things(reduceing values)
Grobut your post is just awesome and it s basically what i am thinking.THX
THX for reading
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Sorry, but it's getting tiresome to see the same people come in and gripe whenever some new guy comes in and makes this same complaint.
In every post I've seen from an experienced shooter that has fired the MP40, they have said that they are not nearly as accurate as the people who come in with videos and so forth.
I hereby offer my challenge. If you can obtain video evidence of an UNSUPPORTED MP40 firing a tight grouping at 100 meters, I will change my stance. Otherwise, you are blowing smoke. Note that the video must show the TARGET, not the gun from the side or from any other angle for that matter. Let's see if you guys can actually put a grouping of rounds from a single burst in a man-sized target at 100 meters. Personally, I think you'll have a problem HITTING the target from that range, let alone grouping them on his torso.
Same goes for the PPSH, which I'm sure is the more accurate weapon, given it's weight and cartridge size.
I will personally eat crow if I am wrong.
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I have one, end all be all point for this argument:
- I can fire 8 rounds from the TT33 into a guy at close range easier than I can put 3 into him with the PPSh.
If that doesn't scream "UNREALISTIC!" then I don't know what does.
- I can fire 8 rounds from the TT33 into a guy at close range easier than I can put 3 into him with the PPSh.
If that doesn't scream "UNREALISTIC!" then I don't know what does.
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That would be very interesting, but also a very tall order, not many people own such a weapon, i sure dont.
As for the 100 meters claim, yes, thats worth debating, but considdering that WWII SMG's are usually said to have a 300 meter effective range (give or take), its certainly not impossible, but 50 meters should be a safe bet.
But i hope you are not suggesting that RO's current implimentation of SMG's is accurate right now, but if you are, i too want to see video proof of PPSH's beeing so utterly useless
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I did a little mutator that changes the recoil of the a little PPSH41.
I'm not a coder myself so I guess nearly everyone of you could do such a small mutator. It is harder to think of good settings.
So instead of talking we could try some settings out and discuss those settings afterwards, if they are better or not than the current ones.
So here is the mutator (including sources).
I'm not a coder myself so I guess nearly everyone of you could do such a small mutator. It is harder to think of good settings.
So instead of talking we could try some settings out and discuss those settings afterwards, if they are better or not than the current ones.
So here is the mutator (including sources).
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Hey, could you point me somewhere I can learn how to put a mut together? I went through the data and changed all the recoils of the SMGs and MGs, and want to test it in a mutator, but I can't figure out how to do it without screwing up my RO installation.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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First of all you need the SDK.
Then you need to export the files, if you want to use the current ones (modifying weapons ...). For that open your Editor, got to "Actor Classes" and press "File/Export all scripts". After this your RO folder should be full with new folders. If you want to change the recoil of weapon you need to find it. The weapons are in "ROInventory". Now you could create your own folder (as I did --> see sources) structure and copy the weapons you want to change there ...
Best is you look here those basics - I'm afraid to call them so, as I guess they are way less than basics - were enough for me to create this small mutator.
Then you need to export the files, if you want to use the current ones (modifying weapons ...). For that open your Editor, got to "Actor Classes" and press "File/Export all scripts". After this your RO folder should be full with new folders. If you want to change the recoil of weapon you need to find it. The weapons are in "ROInventory". Now you could create your own folder (as I did --> see sources) structure and copy the weapons you want to change there ...
Best is you look here those basics - I'm afraid to call them so, as I guess they are way less than basics - were enough for me to create this small mutator.
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Rameus, I don't care about the accuracy at this point. I'd like to see the SMGs become dangerous to people in front of you and not the birds flying above you.
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If the Devs would like to chime in at any point...
Notification of work being done, outright denial of any problems, I don't care. I'd just like to see that the Devs actually read all of this and take these matters into considerations.
Notification of work being done, outright denial of any problems, I don't care. I'd just like to see that the Devs actually read all of this and take these matters into considerations.
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