PTRD Soldat

[Field Marshal Rommel]

Well the thing is we could still have realism and good game play at once but the thing is we are missing some key Soviet/German antitank weaponry
1. Rpg-43 antitank grenade.
2. Anti-tank gun enplacenments-Key weapon for many battles in the Eastern Front such as Kursk,Stalingrad, and Berlin
3. Molotov cocktails-although this would be especially difficult to implement.
4. Soviet tactics-Infantry should cover tanks and charge behind them instead of going there own way.
5. Reduce Panzerfaust loadout but allow some variation on differnt maps for example on some the load out would be 2PF's and a Rifle/smg but on late maps especailly Berlin-Infantry should get 1or 2 PF's and no other gun maybe a pistol-(realistic)
6. On some maps No-PF class instead regular infantry who can pick up only 1 PF in the spawn and no where else.
7. A few maps with no or limited (after 1943) PF's- Just Geballte Ladung's or satchals.

As promised before my detailed account of the Panzerfaust.

He stood to fire the Panzarfaust when the tank came within range. It was not effective beyond 100 meters. A bullet struck him in the face, and he fell back. Another soldier took the weapon and fired when the tank was 20 feet away. The turret blew straight up and off. I could see the commander in the top hatch, his arms waving around. The turret fell upside down, killing him. The tanks continued into our position. I crouched down, and one continued to roll on over us. Three of us fired Panzarfausts into it at the same time, a rear shot. The explosion blinded me for at least 20 minutes, but when I could see, only the road wheels and a track remained. The snow was blown away for 50 meters all around. I was told after that I must report to the medical staff. I saw in a mirror that my face was blistered, and my hair was melted. They had to shave my head.

-This was posted before but I think Its interesting.It shows the T-34's weak "boxtop" turret.

 

[Eater1]

From various sources and books:

PTRD 41 Penetration:
100m 300m 500m
40mm 25mm 22mm

And where did you get those penetration values? I would be very curious to look at it, because I've seen lots of conflicting numbers for PTRD penetration, and though most of my reliable sources put 90 degree penetration at higher than that, if you have this book on hand, could I have the title?

Field Marshal, I like your suggestions about adding more variety in AT weapons (then again, who doesn't...), but since I generally have to disagree with you on stuff in this thread: I believe actual German soldiers were never issued "nothing but a Panzerfaust" - there were various irregulars who were not issued proper equipment, but I believe the RO team stated earlier that no irregular troops (including partisans, Hitler youths, etc.) would be included due to ethical considerations.

Of course, there is one thing which would make everyone quickly forget all this personal AT-weapon nonesense, and that's anti-tank guns. Then, all the tankers would be whinning about AT guns, and I wouldn't have to try to arc a Panzerfaust 45 degrees so that it hits a tank at 150 meters, or ruin my vision by trying to pixel-snipe the ammo box on a Pz IV.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

"nothing but a Panzerfaust"

In Berlin the Germans had massive weapon shortages a bit like the Soviets at Stalingrad but the only thing they had more than enough of were Panzerfausts. So often in Berlin Regular soliders were only armed with a Panzerfaust 60 or 100( I think there was a Thread out there like this). I only mention the AT guns because It was the Soviet Unions greatest defense against tanks in key battles its the same for the Germans. It would also cut down on Panzerfaust usage. Unlike a Panzerfaust an AT gun can be put out of comisssion or captured and used by the enemy assuming of course there is enough ammunition.

 

[Australian]

My idea,
give At soldiers at German side a SMG or Rifle or Pistol choice.. Russian only SMG or Pistol cause the PTRD can be used as a rifle..
Don't give them grenades, give the Germans 3 panzerfausts (or one very strong) and the Russians a PTRD with 15 rounds..
Give both sides binoculars..

just my 2 cents..
pretty balanced imho..

 

[Isaak Johnson]

The Germans never get grenades or pistols with their AT class. The only exception is Arad where the Germans get grenades.

My mistake, I've been playing way too much Arad lately.

Keep in mind you can only use a Panzerfaust under 100 meters. The PTRD can be used at 500+ meters and also doubles as a rifle with its ridiculous accuracy.

I allready stated that information, but it doesn't make up the difference, and being able to shoot infantry doesn't make it even either.

3 Panzerfausts weigh 40.2 pounds a unloaded PTRD weighs 40 pounds and is over 6 feet long. Add in 20 rounds of 14.5mm weighing 64 grams each, a pistol with 4 mags and 2 grenades. Add an MP40 with 6 mags or a K98 with 9 clips. Both load outs are ridiculous weighing 50 pounds or more.

Most loadouts for solders were that heavy or more, it wasn't that uncommon. Now I'm not saying your wrong about the real war, but for gameplay purposes, allowing the German AT soldier to carry a secondary weapon like an SMG is NOT going to be good for gameplay in the long run. Also, the PTRD, even though it was six feet long, had a carrying handle while the Panzerfaust had NO carrying strap or handle, so I feel pretty safe saying it was probably difficult to carry three large tubes without having any way to sling them over your back.

Comparing the PTRD to the Panzerfaust is also ridiculous, they are 2 completely different weapons. The Panzerfaust is easier to use because it was. 1 shot and throw away.

Just because an orange and an apple are different doesn't mean I cant compare them as FRUIT. Just because the Panzerfaust and PTRD are different doesn't mean I cant compare them as Anti-Tank weaponry.
As for their useage, I'm not saying that the Panzerfaust should become a clip-loaded weapon or some other BS, it was a one-shot weapon plain and simple, that concept wasn't lost to me.

It's also unrealstic to be carrying a 40 pound 6 foot long anti-tank rifle with 20 rounds, a pistol with 4 mags and 2 grenades. With the ability to sprint and go through door ways carrying it sideways. The amount of Panzerfausts you can carry should only be changed when the PTRD is toned down in power.

Um, I'm pretty sure that when the guys at TW modeled the PTRD it WASN'T a made up weapon. Your right that it wasn't realistic to be able to sprint through doors and run at top speed with it, but I didn't say that at PTRD soldier shouldn't take a speed/stamina/movement hit when using it, I was mainly focusing my attention on the Panzerfaust. In fact your right that a PTRD soldier SHOULD be slower because of the weight he's carring around.

Lastly, I still have yet to see solid in-game proof that the PTRD in RO is overpowered. Now those of you who have presented the facts and numbers are right, but thats for reality, and reality just plain ISN'T allways going to work for a GAME. Having said that, even though the PTRD in RO is MUCH more powerful than the real one, you can see in any tank map that the PTRD is still too weak to have any substantual effect on the game, heck, it barely has an impact on infantry in a map. PTRD kills are rare at best and if you make the PTRD any weaker than it is now it might as well just be removed because it isn't going to do anything more than be an oversized rifle, and thats not what it was built for. Now I am NOT saying the PTRD should be able to make one-hit kills on the front armor of an Panzer or Tiger, but its power should be updraged enough so that you dont have to have pin-point accuracy to be able to kill anything. So far there has been no solid reason the PTRD should stay in the game, especially if its weakened even further. The only reason I can give you to keep the PTRD and all the hard work that has allready gone into it is to even up the gap between the Anti-Tank weaponary.

YES, you are all right that the PTRD more powerful than the real deal, and that the Panzerfaust is weaker than the real deal, but when you start taking reality so far into a game that you start to RUIN it for everyone, thats when I start to say you got to stop and take a look at the other side of the fence. I'm all for having a realistic game, but within reason, as long as the game remains FUN. I honestly cant see anyone having fun when you start to tip the scales so far.

(I apologize if I came off too rude or angry, but I keep feeling like I'm the only one on this side of the fence, and I really dont want to see this game end up hurting itself like this. Having a realistic game is honorable, and wanting to contribute to that is great, but please take the gameplay into consideration and please try to think about the effects of too much realism.)

Thank you for your time.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

Look I really wouldnt mind getting killed by a Soviet At-rifle as long as it kills me in more than one shot to a realistic area like the sides or rear(-PanzersIV and III) but when I get killed in 1 frontal shot by a AT-rifle some distance and when Panthers G's and Tigers start to get damaged and destroyed by At-rifle fire thats when you know its way too powerful.Other than the tracks,optics,ect anything tank in game excluding the PanzerIV and Panzer III should suffer no damage even from a point blank rear shot.I was playing arad yesterday we got are a**es handed to us not only because (Germans lost all 7 or 8 rounds in a row)of the Soviet tanks but because of the At-rifle* which killed 3 of my Panthers ( I think this game put a weak shot in the back some where),1 PanzerIV and disabled my Tiger I's tracks.
Now the only thing there that is accarate is the Tigers tracks being disabled. I was killed frontally in my PanzerIV which is why I avoid it since it has become a death trap because of the overpowered AT-rifle. My proposal to evenout the AT-rifle is:
1.Points for disabling tanks.
2.Although it is still overpowered a bit. It should only Kill the vulnerable tanks in their actual vulnerable areas in several shots!(You get 19 rounds! and have the advantage of cover and range currently with an at-rifle)
3.Make tracks easier to hit with the rifle but make the track a break after several shots to the area.
4. NO frontal penetration on Panzer IV or rear on PanzerIII.

* Arad has way too many Panzerfausts everywhere Its crazy! Clowncars stop jumpout fire then drive away-Most unrealistic!-At least when the Germans have the Panzerfaust there is no clowncar get away car that sneeks up behind u and destroy you then moves on to another tank after caping 2or 3 objectives along the away. (grrrr!)-lol

 

[thedonster]

The German tank hunters only get 3 shots. Russians get up to 19. The amount of weapons you can carry now does not need to be made even more ridiculous.

So...the German carrying 3 fausts @15 lbs. each + an SMG @ 10 lbs. plus 4 spare clips = 60 POUNDS OF WEAPONS is not ridiculous?

 

[Isaak Johnson]

Look I really wouldnt mind getting killed by a Soviet At-rifle as long as it kills me in more than one shot to a realistic area like the sides or rear, but when I get killed in 1 frontal shot by a AT-rifle some distance and when Panthers G's and Tigers start to get damaged and destroyed by At-rifle fire thats when you know its way too powerful.

The AT Rifles arnt even that powerful, I there are a few mutators out there that increase the AT Rifles damage level, but I have never ever been killed by an AT rifle when playing the standard non-modded game while I was in my tank.

I've taken frontal hits, side hits, rear hits, turret hits, and track hits and I have never been damaged by an AT rifle that registered anything to my little tank-health guage.

I still firmly believe the AT Rifle's power needs to be upped so that it will damage tanks when hitting the logical areas like the rear and tracks, but I dont think TW would set the damage up so high that one-hit kills on frontal armor will ever be possible, plus they test their updates first before releasing them, I dont think any of us will need to fear AT Rifles THAT powerful.

1.Points for disabling tanks.
2.Although it is still overpowered a bit. It should only Kill the vulnerable tanks in their actual vulnerable areas in several shots!(You get 19 rounds! and have the advantage of cover and range currently with an at-rifle)
3.Make tracks easier to hit with the rifle but make the track a break after several shots to the area.
4. NO frontal penetration on Panzer IV or rear on PanzerIII.

These are EXCELENT suggestions, thank you Rommel.

But untill the AT Rifles can at least do minor (or more) damage with a single round to a logical damage area like the rear or tracks, 19 rounds isnt going to do the average player any more good than shooting your pistol at it. I have had PTRD soldiers waste all their ammo at my tank and I have done the same into enemy tanks, 19 rounds isnt enough to do anything untill they cause some form of basic damage. Untill then the only "overpowered" part of the PTRD is the rare one-hit kills that I've only seen done a handful of times, by then the Panzerfaust has allready racked up the kills to make that "overpowered" AT rifle look quite weak.

* Arad has way too many Panzerfausts everywhere Its crazy! Clowncars stop jumpout fire then drive away-Most unrealistic!-At least when the Germans have the Panzerfaust there is no clowncar get away car that sneeks up behind u and destroy you then moves on to another tank after caping 2or 3 objectives along the away. (grrrr!)-lol

This is a good point I forgot to mension. Yes I know that Panzerfausts were extreemly common and simple to make, even minutes before they were used, but when it gets to the point that most Panzerfaust spawn boxes are placed on the Axis side for any Axis to pick up in threes, AND they have a player that spawns with three, the amount of flying Panzerfaust rounds not only gets very hard to go up against, but it gets downright frustrating, and frustrating isn't good for a game.

 

[thedonster]

What is that weapon?

Italian Beretta SMG

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

The AT Rifles arnt even that powerful, I there are a few mutators out there that increase the AT Rifles damage level, but I have never ever been killed by an AT rifle when playing the standard non-modded game while I was in my tank.

I've taken frontal hits, side hits, rear hits, turret hits, and track hits and I have never been damaged by an AT rifle that registered anything to my little tank-health guage.

I still firmly believe the AT Rifle's power needs to be upped so that it will damage tanks when hitting the logical areas like the rear and tracks, but I dont think TW would set the damage up so high that one-hit kills on frontal armor will ever be possible, plus they test their updates first before releasing them, I dont think any of us will need to fear AT Rifles THAT powerful.

There is a demo in these forums of the At-rifle taking out Panthers and all the rest with 1 shot.If I cant find it I'll try to make one.
I dont play on servers with mutators!
Look all Im trying to say is yeah its okay to have the At-rifle be a bit more powerful than it was but at the same time it should only cause damage if it hits armor it could penetrate in reallife and yes it should still take several direct shots to down a tank(no magic one shot kills!!).-Afterall isnt that why they switched to the semi-automatic Ptrs so they could take several shots repeatedly a vunlernable area?
the ptrd was capable of taking out the most common german tank the PanzerIV H (rear) so it should!Even the Panzerfaust cant take out a common soviet tank out ( t-34/85 or 75) in 1 shot needs 2 close range shots (although realisticly it should).
Also the At-rifle could take out many other lightly armored vehicles and self propelled guns , light tanks,gun postions,and mortars but sadly those things arent in game.

PTRD is the rare one-hit kills that I've only seen done a handful of times

Aim right under and slightly to the left of the PanzerIV or III's driver's viewing slit.-works every time.

for any Axis to pick up in threes, AND they have a player that spawns with three, the amount of flying Panzerfaust rounds not only gets very hard to go up against, but it gets downright frustrating, and frustrating isn't good for a game.

Yes if theres a Pf class there should be no pick ups or at the very least very limited pickups only in the German spawn!!!!-Id be nice to get rid of the Panzerfaust class in some maps and instead have regular soliders(no tankers) be able to pick up only 1 panzerfaust from spawn.

 

[Isaak Johnson]

There is a demo in these forums of the At-rifle taking out Panthers and all the rest with 1 shot.If I cant find it I'll try to make one.

Yea, I have that one saved, but its in spanish, and I havent taken the time to translate it, if you want a copy I can send it to you. Its was jaw dropping for me to actually see it was possible, but its STILL extreemly hard to do, even more so in the middle of a game.

Look all Im trying to say is yeah its okay to have the At-rifle be a bit more powerful than it was but at the same time it should only cause damage if it hits armor it could penetrate in reallife and yes it should still take several direct shots to down a tank(no magic one shot kills!!).-Afterall isnt that why they switched to the semi-automatic Ptrs so they could take several shots repeatedly a vunlernable area?

Yea, I agree wih you, the rifle should do damage in logical areas.

Aim right under and slightly to the left of the PanzerIV or III's driver's viewing slit.-works every time.

I am SO going to keep my eyes trained on that spot, GREATLY appreciated.

Yes if theres a Pf class there should be no pick ups or at the very least very limited pickups only in the German spawn!!!!-Id be nice to get rid of the Panzerfaust class in some maps and instead have regular soliders(no tankers) be able to pick up only 1 panzerfaust from spawn.

Well for the Panzerfaust I thought having them spawn slowly in boxes was more appropriate than having a player spawn with them, mainly ebcause they have allways been described as easy to make and common weapons, so I felt it was more appropriate.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

Well for the Panzerfaust I thought having them spawn slowly in boxes was more appropriate than having a player spawn with them, mainly ebcause they have allways been described as easy to make and common weapons, so I felt it was more appropriate.

Too bad theres no way to limit the amount of Pf's you can pick up except for modding.

Aim right under and slightly to the left of the PanzerIV or III's driver's viewing slit.-works every time.

Also works with the T-60 as I learn time and time again on hedgehog.

 

[Kipper]

PTRD + Mosin Nagant + 20 rounds 14.7mm.
2 Panzerfaust + MP-40/K98K

And there we have nice AT classes. I'd like to see a dev comment on this.

Less than 20 minutes ago I was playing Berezina on 2Manny's server as a Russkie AT rifler. I scored five one hit kills through the frontal armor of three PzIIIs and two PzIVs at ranges of 20-400m. Most of my kills however came from attacking the sides and rear of their tanks.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

2 Panzerfaust + MP-40/K98K

and late in the war Strumgewehr-44's.

I scored five one hit kills through the frontal armor of three PzIIIs and two PzIVs at ranges of 20-400m. Most of my kills however came from attacking the sides and rear of their tanks.

More evidence against unrealistic one shot kill frontal penetration from a at-rifle.