courage in a bottle
- Thread starter cammandoss
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Hello!
Just a little detail to that aspect of war: The russians gave their troops really a lot of Vodka before an attack....german veterans told about gigantic masses of drunken troops, running straight away in the german defense-fire....you could imagine, what then happened....
Surely: A doped (or drunken) soldier is aggressive and unfrightened (or in other words: careless)...he would attack everything you told him to without having doubts or questions....but his senses are weakened....you know, what's up with your balance and eyes if you're high or drunken...
He will follow every (possibly insane) orders without thinking and with only a insufficient effectiveness.
That's, why the germans only in few cases gave some kind of stimulants (i.e. their Stuka-Pilots for increasing their circulation during dive-bombing, or some kind of coffee-pills for Submarine-Commanders, to prevent them for sleeping away during a three day long convoi-attack).
German infantry-troops were able to make 30-40km-marches daily, because of their (very hard) training and has nothing to do with the usage of drugs. In there basic-training such marches were (amongst the iron discipline) one of the most important things, they have to complete regularly, especially of the weak equipment with motorized vehicles in the Wehrmacht...(only a few divisions were ever fully motorized). Alcohol were formal stricktly forbidden, especially when german soldiers are being in duty (on watch, on an alert-post and so on).
So...I don't see, why alcohol or drugs should be able to building up your fighting power in some way.....you are just going to be something like a headless and killing zombie....but that's exactly, what a "good" soldier should never be...;-)
Greetings,
AngelusM.
Just a little detail to that aspect of war: The russians gave their troops really a lot of Vodka before an attack....german veterans told about gigantic masses of drunken troops, running straight away in the german defense-fire....you could imagine, what then happened....
Surely: A doped (or drunken) soldier is aggressive and unfrightened (or in other words: careless)...he would attack everything you told him to without having doubts or questions....but his senses are weakened....you know, what's up with your balance and eyes if you're high or drunken...
He will follow every (possibly insane) orders without thinking and with only a insufficient effectiveness.
That's, why the germans only in few cases gave some kind of stimulants (i.e. their Stuka-Pilots for increasing their circulation during dive-bombing, or some kind of coffee-pills for Submarine-Commanders, to prevent them for sleeping away during a three day long convoi-attack).
German infantry-troops were able to make 30-40km-marches daily, because of their (very hard) training and has nothing to do with the usage of drugs. In there basic-training such marches were (amongst the iron discipline) one of the most important things, they have to complete regularly, especially of the weak equipment with motorized vehicles in the Wehrmacht...(only a few divisions were ever fully motorized). Alcohol were formal stricktly forbidden, especially when german soldiers are being in duty (on watch, on an alert-post and so on).
So...I don't see, why alcohol or drugs should be able to building up your fighting power in some way.....you are just going to be something like a headless and killing zombie....but that's exactly, what a "good" soldier should never be...;-)
Greetings,
AngelusM.
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I want the squad leader to have a magical stone, which he can use to turn al his soldiers into immortal zombies!
(just for balancing purposes ofcourse)
I mean.. the ruskies have the clowncar and all.. so it would be fair.. right?
(just for balancing purposes ofcourse)
I mean.. the ruskies have the clowncar and all.. so it would be fair.. right?
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And again, i've learned something.....I didn't knowe that nick for the BA64...
Greetings,
AngelusM.
Greetings,
AngelusM.
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Wow, that must have been a really raw deal for those Red Army soldiers (and no, Russian is not synonymous with Soviet either...), since drunkeness was a pretty severe offence, so after that attack, the survivors would probably be punished quite severely.
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Well....at all: The heavy losses of the Red Army are telling their own tale, I think. I wasn't in the Red Army, but if you analyze their kind of tactics und strategy, you can see, that most of their soldiers were nothing than cannon fodder. The Red Army has (like all big armies) the very bad strategy of mass. If they're unable to fight an enemy down with tactical/strategic ingenuity, they used the mass to simply overwhelm him.
Okay: The strategy can't fail, if the mass is big enough.....but what's with the thousands of soldiers, which have to die for this idiocy?
The german army ever was relative small against their opponents, which forced the germans to improve the skills of their troops at a maximum.
This leads to an excellent skill of all german men (even the simple rifle-men) to act independent, to lead small troups (if the Sergeant or formal leader has KIA) and to be always responsible for their men and equipment. High discipline and moral, tactical sensitiveness and initiative were found throughout the whole german army. That was the biggest advantage, the germans had to offer, and thier strongest weapon at least, when a tattered battalion-sized division stood againt three or four fully operational russian armies.
Okay: The strategy can't fail, if the mass is big enough.....but what's with the thousands of soldiers, which have to die for this idiocy?
The german army ever was relative small against their opponents, which forced the germans to improve the skills of their troops at a maximum.
This leads to an excellent skill of all german men (even the simple rifle-men) to act independent, to lead small troups (if the Sergeant or formal leader has KIA) and to be always responsible for their men and equipment. High discipline and moral, tactical sensitiveness and initiative were found throughout the whole german army. That was the biggest advantage, the germans had to offer, and thier strongest weapon at least, when a tattered battalion-sized division stood againt three or four fully operational russian armies.
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Mate that is so funny - but can you imagine if that had all happened when they were under fire? Prolly not so much laughter then , I'd bet.
The British First Airborne Division used bezedrine when under siege in Arnhem but after 2-3 days the men astarted wasting ammuntion shooting at the bats and stuff that they started hallucinating.
In Czechoslovakia they also tried developing a stimulant for use by SS units but the resultant drug produced behaviour so unpredictable that the users were often classifiable as psychotic. So they gave it to kamikaze pilots instead. Prolly just as well as the drug contained traces of the Cadmium used as a catalyst in its creation.
The drug, pervitin, was still available on the Czech black market a few years ago - prolly still is for all I know.
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This analysis is based on what historical research? 'Enemy at the Gates'?
Do us a favour and look at some actual material and eye-witness accounts before you make sweeping statements like that.
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Let the shrooms grow on Arad!
All will be fun and games, up untill a high russkie goes homicidal
All will be fun and games, up untill a high russkie goes homicidal
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Russian soldiers were more patriotic then most people think. Specially after seeing the news about Germans destroying everything in the west of Russia.
They didn't need wodka to push them into a frenzy.
And besides that, priority was to get ammo and fuel to the front and not wodka...
Offcourse soldiers got drunk at every occasion they got but that was not to go into battle.
They didn't need wodka to push them into a frenzy.
And besides that, priority was to get ammo and fuel to the front and not wodka...
Offcourse soldiers got drunk at every occasion they got but that was not to go into battle.
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@*7GA* Nestor Makhno
Well....without having here a complete list of all my sources (i'm on work), i can't give you just a few examples (i don't know the english titles):
"Soldat im 21. Jahrhundert" E. Manstein
"Erinnerungen eines Soldaten" H. Guderian
"Der zweite Weltkrieg" Bertelsmann-Verlag
"Uniformen und Abzeichen der deutschen Infanterie 1939-45" Motorbuch-Verlag
"Das Handbuch der deutschen Infanterie" A.Bucher
(Last both with exempts of "Gefechtstageb
Well....without having here a complete list of all my sources (i'm on work), i can't give you just a few examples (i don't know the english titles):
"Soldat im 21. Jahrhundert" E. Manstein
"Erinnerungen eines Soldaten" H. Guderian
"Der zweite Weltkrieg" Bertelsmann-Verlag
"Uniformen und Abzeichen der deutschen Infanterie 1939-45" Motorbuch-Verlag
"Das Handbuch der deutschen Infanterie" A.Bucher
(Last both with exempts of "Gefechtstageb
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