So why are high explosive satchel charges destroying tanks?
- Thread starter Harry S. Truman
- Start date
WWIIOL's satchel charges are just as unrealistic (but in a different way) than RO's.
I would like to have a bit more control over where the satchel is being placed in RO. If it's on the engine deck, then the engine is destroyed. If it's on the hull gun, then either the gun is destroyed, or it's ability to vertically traverse would be stopped. If it's under the tank, then the crew should take concussion damage.
Let's face it, there's a LOT about vehicular combat that needs work... Damagable crewmembers to start.
I would like to have a bit more control over where the satchel is being placed in RO. If it's on the engine deck, then the engine is destroyed. If it's on the hull gun, then either the gun is destroyed, or it's ability to vertically traverse would be stopped. If it's under the tank, then the crew should take concussion damage.
Let's face it, there's a LOT about vehicular combat that needs work... Damagable crewmembers to start.
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My suggestion would be to replace Satchels with Teller/Pilz mines which would require the tank to set off the mine as it drove over it.
Either that or Magnetic Hollow-charge mines but that would require sticking it to the side of the tank and i'm sure people would more often than not be 'accidentally' crushed/run over before they could click there mouse...
Either that or Magnetic Hollow-charge mines but that would require sticking it to the side of the tank and i'm sure people would more often than not be 'accidentally' crushed/run over before they could click there mouse...
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leave the satchels for the infantry only maps. it's just a nOOb magnet on the tank/CA maps.
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Played today on Herbsoffensive, and the horrible horrible un-reality of this game hit home... HARD!!!
It may be a custom map, but the strength of the satchel (which is hard-coded so it wasnt a mutator) is totally and un-necassarily overpowered!!!
Its killing range is completely unjustified!
I killed someone with the t60 who dropped an armed nuke about 15 meters in front. I reversed for at least another 7 or 8 before it went up, taking me out with its apparant shock wave (cant think of what else it could have been...)
The device is purely explosive and is not made up or contains any metal that would turn to shrapnel
It needs fixing cos this game is turning into an unrealistic joke as more and more people learn how to exploit RO's 'features'
It may be a custom map, but the strength of the satchel (which is hard-coded so it wasnt a mutator) is totally and un-necassarily overpowered!!!
Its killing range is completely unjustified!
I killed someone with the t60 who dropped an armed nuke about 15 meters in front. I reversed for at least another 7 or 8 before it went up, taking me out with its apparant shock wave (cant think of what else it could have been...)
The device is purely explosive and is not made up or contains any metal that would turn to shrapnel
It needs fixing cos this game is turning into an unrealistic joke as more and more people learn how to exploit RO's 'features'
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Just remove the ability completely. The class is not supposed to be able to destroy tanks. It defeats the purpose of an anti-tank class and just bogs down gameplay.
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ATM the satchel also represents bags of grenades and other improvised AT explosives. They should still have an effect on a tank, but completely destroying just doesn't work.
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That is very true, however, with the current absence of no specific points on the tank that can be destroyed/damaged by them (MG, Turret, Crew, and the Engine, etc), they simply add to unneeded frusteration. At the most they should be disabling what they are placed on, instead of flat-out destroying a tank. Until those features are added, I stick by what I said and suggest that they do not destroy. Until the previously mentioned things are added, they should merely disable what already can, those being the tracks and engine.
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We definitely need more damagable components, but right now the satchel could disable the tracks if placed near (~1 m) the side of the tank, the engine if placed on the rear deck, and either the engine or the ammo box (destruction) if placed under the tank, depending on where it ends up. The satchel would only destroy the tank if it damages the ammo storage, which would only occur if the tank drives over the satchel and it goes off directly under the turret (or other suitable ammo location).
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Sure, the satchel is a bit unrealistic, but it creates a realistic battlefield. Maybe instead of complaining about satchels, you guys should examine actual World War II combined arms tactics instead of trying to feel invincible inside your tank. There is a reason that tanks didn't advance into urban areas or trench networks on their own. It's because after the first time someone tried that (back in World War 1, when all they had against the tanks was grenades), they discovered that they would get overwhelmed and killed very very quickly. A tank is good breakthrough weapon, and great fire support, but it cannot last in a melee with infantry. That's where infantry support comes in. Your infantry is supposed to keep their infantry off of your ass, to keep it from getting toasted. As for what technical means the enemy infantry uses to destroy tanks at close range - HEAT grenades, rifles, shaped charges, or even magical bags of explosives, - it doesn't matter, because the effect ultimately is realistic, even if the means are not.
Here is who gets killed by satchels:
1. People who drive into towns unescorted by infantry, as it should be.
2. People who sit in one place (usually without a driver) and ignore a scout car barreling towards them because they are convinced that they are invulnerable.
Both of these people are making tactical errors, and deserve to get nuked by the satchel.
Here is who gets killed by satchels:
1. People who drive into towns unescorted by infantry, as it should be.
2. People who sit in one place (usually without a driver) and ignore a scout car barreling towards them because they are convinced that they are invulnerable.
Both of these people are making tactical errors, and deserve to get nuked by the satchel.
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I'd agree with you more or less, if it wasn't for the combination of satchel and BA-64 creating probably the most gamey and ridiculous situation in the entire game.
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yes, i agree as well, engineers shoud not be encouraged to use there sattchels against tanks, as a last resort maybe, but then with a reduced effect, placed near a tank, the crew shoud only feel the shock wave maybe (if ever), and only if placed on the top of the tank, it shoud have a effect, and maybe destroying it, when placed exactly between hull and turret (which is not modeled yet)
but i have to say, in some ways satchels make, a good adition. If i can rember a costum map set in a very early war setting. usualy the russians had a truck (in the mod), to reach the first capture point (3 in totall). Some guys replaced the truck with a KV1, and have set 2 tank soldiers in game. Germans got only 1 guy with 1 satchel, if placed well over the tank, it coud blow it up, if not, the tank turned yellow, and was still a danger. It has give a realistic feeling of how german infantry had to deal with russian tanks in begining, as there where way more russian tanks, than germans, so it coud have hapend very easily, that a german rifle platoon meets a tank, without any real weapon to take it out. The map was hard, but fun as well, cause you had many room to flank.
On early tanks, as the panzer III a satchel woud maybe have more effect, then on heavy ones like tiger and is2, as this tanks have been armored strong enough to hold out ver large mortar and grenade fire.
but i have to say, in some ways satchels make, a good adition. If i can rember a costum map set in a very early war setting. usualy the russians had a truck (in the mod), to reach the first capture point (3 in totall). Some guys replaced the truck with a KV1, and have set 2 tank soldiers in game. Germans got only 1 guy with 1 satchel, if placed well over the tank, it coud blow it up, if not, the tank turned yellow, and was still a danger. It has give a realistic feeling of how german infantry had to deal with russian tanks in begining, as there where way more russian tanks, than germans, so it coud have hapend very easily, that a german rifle platoon meets a tank, without any real weapon to take it out. The map was hard, but fun as well, cause you had many room to flank.
On early tanks, as the panzer III a satchel woud maybe have more effect, then on heavy ones like tiger and is2, as this tanks have been armored strong enough to hold out ver large mortar and grenade fire.
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There is a very easy solution to this without doing something silly like taking the BA-64 out of the game because it is "too powerful" (if it's so powerful, why didn't the Red Army use it all the time?):
Have a hull MG, and have the hull MG shoot the BA as it's approaching. This will take out its engine, and the infantryman has to jump out to satchel, at which point the hull MG can kill him.
This can be made even more effective if the BA is made a bit more vulnerable to machineguns (at least in the engine block), and if something is added to encourage team-tanking, or allow the driver to use the hull MG or something.
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hmmm i could imagine if the devs could do 2 different killing ratios for a satchel
1 for the infantry wich should be pretty big
and 1 for the tanks wich is VERRY small
so i mean around 20-25 cm
that would mean youd have to place the satchel nearly DIRECTLY on the tank
dunno if this is doable
1 for the infantry wich should be pretty big
and 1 for the tanks wich is VERRY small
so i mean around 20-25 cm
that would mean youd have to place the satchel nearly DIRECTLY on the tank
dunno if this is doable
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Unfortunately it's not quite that easy, very rarely if ever will they drive straight towards you, often zigzagging which was made easier by the recent patch making it much less prone to toppling over (why TW, why?!) , and it takes a ridiculous amount of mg fire to disable it. It will even survive direct hits from tank shells from time to time. I'd suggest three ways to make it less silly, one is make the car itself more vulnerable like you suggested, another is crew vulnerability, and the third is removing the ability to instantly jump out of vehicles. Personally i'd rather just see it removed and replaced with the m3 lend lease halftrack, or m5 as it was called when under lend lease.
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Well, not all satchels destroy tanks. I actually snuck up behind a KV on Berezina last night and tossed a satchel on it and it actually stuck to the rear of the turret as the tank drove off. But when the satchel went off, it only damaged it (the KV started smoking) instead of destroying it.
I was bummed, I thought I had a sure kill
I was bummed, I thought I had a sure kill
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well a problem is just, that when your tank is already "yelow" cause of a penetration, a satchel 10m or even further away from you kills you ... which let it feel like the tanks woud have hit points, no this is not fun for a tanker and you sure dont get out of the tank, in the midle of a tank fight, just to kill those nasty combat engineers
and you sure dont get out of the tank, in the midle of a tank fight, just to kill those nasty combat engineers
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You are missing the point.
If I'm stupid enough to allow some infantry to put a satchel on my engine deck, I deserve to get knocked out. But getting knocked out because some schmoe I killed with the mg tossed it 5 meters from my tank, is complete garbage.
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