King Tiger/Ferdinand/Elefants/Panthers (Merged)

[karl stiner]

I guess that at anything closer than 500-600m, any Russian tank could outspeed the Ferdinand's gun.

yes and when it gets the track blown its game over your dead meat the Ferdinand's gun will be useless it will be ok for black day july not for orel

 

[kabex]

Well, there are like 5 other Soviet tank destroyers that are not in-game yet, so there is no lack there. I think the reason the SU-76 was selected was because it could be added to early-war maps. Some late-war Soviet tank-destroyers (some produced in greater numbers than the PzIV) would be much more useful than a tank which saw very little service.

Tank destroyers? You are mistaken, they are assault guns(use HE exclusively).
TD:
SU100 NOV44
SU85 AUG43
SPG:
SU-76: DEC42 (this one was used as a TD though, like the StuG)
SU-122: DEC42
SU-152: SEP43

It would make up for the fact that there are currently more different German late-war tanks than Soviet ones (Germany: PzIV, V, VI; USSR: T-34, IS-2).

Mistaken:
Pz. IV Ausf. F APR41
Pz. IV Ausf. F/2 APR41
Pz. V Ausf. G MAR44
Pz. VI Ausf. E AUGUST42

Vs.

T-34/85 M44 MAR44
IS-2 APR44

--
Soviets have one more late-war vehicle. Germans have exclusively early and mid war vehicles with the exception of the Panther Ausf. G which was a late version(first Panthers were built in January '43) but I don't think it qualifies as a late-war vehicle, the Panther was mid-war. Both the T-34/85 and IS-2 were late-war AFVs.

Note: there are zero early war tank/CA maps included in the game. There's only one mid-war tank/CA map(Bondarevo) the rest are late-war.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

We don't even have the most common and produced German AFVs and you want a Ferdinand...

thats exactly the same i thought when i seen this thread

I didn't read all the post, but basically what would the soviets do to counter it?
​

Su-152 assult gun, it was quite succesfull again german armor in kursk, though its more an platform for artilery, then a tank hunter.

 

[karl stiner]

Put as many vehicles as possible into RO and let mappers decide which ones they want to put onto maps - its freedom of choice for anyone to play on whichever server/map available, I just want these vehicles and they don't have to be put on current official maps.

yes i wont every german tank and every russian in the game then people can put them on the maps that they like well said AtW;190153 its freedom of choice

 

[kabex]

Su-152 assult gun, it was quite succesfull again german armor in kursk, though its more an platform for artilery, then a tank hunter.

LOL, no. The SU-152 takes forever to reload, have no AP shells and they were, as you said, artillery platforms not tank hunters. They were made for blowing up stuff, which can't be done in RO:OST. Just like the IS-2 and Pz4F1 but hey, that didn't stop Tripwire so let's make the game even more unrealistic?

 

[Dheepan]

The su-151 pwned german tanks though. The gun was just so massive it was effective agaist armour.

In the defensive phase of battle for Soviet forces SU-152s were utilized as powerful anti-tank weapons. Usually SU-152s were hidden in ambushes on the path of German tanks. Another worthy tactic was amassing SU-152s fire (very often direct, sometimes indirect) in the enemy direction. The large destructive strength of their high-explosive shells allowed the SU-152 to damage enemy heavy armoured vehicles even without actual armour penetration. The hit of a 152.4-mm armour-piercing round BR-540 with a total mass of 48.8 kilograms caused devastating effects on its target. At closer range the kinetic and explosive energy of the shell could rip the turret clean off a tank. As a result, SU-152s managed to destroy 7 German Elefant heavy tank destroyers, which were unstoppable for any other antitank weapon (with the exception of Soviet infantry with Molotov cocktails in close combat). There was a large number of less armoured German AFVs (including Tiger tanks) destroyed or damaged by SU-152 fire. For example, Major Sankovskiy destroyed 10 German tanks in a single day with his crew and his SU-152.

Just because they were designed as gun platform doesn't mean that it's totally ineffective as an anti-tank platform. I mean the 88 was designed as an anti-aircraft gun, but it was proved very effective against tanks. About the su-100,

The SU-100 quickly proved itself to be among the best self-propelled anti-tank guns of World War II, able to penetrate 125 mm of vertical armor from a range of 2,000 metres.

Anyways the more tanks the better!

 

[FYROM]

While it wouldn't perform anywhere near the Ferdinand, the best Russian counter would be the SU-85, especially since it filled a similar role for the Russians during Kursk.

I'd much rather see a Marder or Hetzer modelled as a German tank destroyer though, since the Elefant would only be useful on a Kursk map.

 

[Sichartshofen]

No. Not until we have official tank maps similar in size to Orel with 1000 meter viewing distance. The only advantage the Elefant would have with the current tank damage system and ****ty tank maps is the 200mm of armor and the powerful 88mm L71. Think of how annoying it would be when some asshole in a clown car drops a 3kg satchel charge 10 feet away from you and your Elefant explodes.

 

[kabex]

The su-151 pwned german tanks though. The gun was just so massive it was effective agaist armour.



Just because they were designed as gun platform doesn't mean that it's totally ineffective as an anti-tank platform. I mean the 88 was designed as an anti-aircraft gun, but it was proved very effective against tanks. About the su-100,



Anyways the more tanks the better!

There should be NO llate '44 to '45 AFVs at all in the game. Too limited.

I'd much rather have AFVs that were available for much longer periods of time.

Also, I am just speculating here but the SU-152 was not used as a tank destroyer(brought in in armoured engagements) but as an assault gun. If it happened to encounter a tank, well, that's different.

The Ferdinand, JagdPanther, etc were used in Schwere JagdPanzer batallions and were specifically made to support armoured engagements. Weren't the SU-152s in SP-Art batallions or such? Attached to infantry?

If we're keeping the game authentic(it's not authentic but let's assume it is) then the SU-152 simply wouldn't be there in any realistic battles, maybe a few extremely rare cases. Since we can't blow up anything it's useless as infantry support, therefore useless for RO:OST.

No, just no.

All maps made for the game, that attempt to have "realistic" loadouts should have these drawn from orders of battle of the same. If that happened we wouldn't see the SU-152, therefore its inclusion is useless.

Same goes for all tanks(IS-2 I'm looking at you).
--

Tank destroyers that MAKE SENSE:
SU-85
JagdPanzer IV/70
Hetzer
Panzerselbstfahrlafette V (LOL jk)

 

[ROMMEL34]

I'm not sure which Soviet tank could counter it. Seeing as it has 200mm (Tiger II's armor was somewhat comparable to the Ferdinand) of armor on the front but the verison found in Kursk lacked machine guns. (loose MG is probably beyond the unreal engine) So it should be very vulnerable to Soviet infantry and vulnerable to higher caliber soviet self propelled guns from the sides and rear.
Yes I know there aren't any big enough maps and the Panzer IV H is not in yet but I was making a suggestion for future plans oh And I suggest at least skimming through the post before adding your opinon it took me a while to type (I double checked everything)!!

Ferdinand is a must for Kursk and perhaps Berlin!

 

[kabex]

but I was making a suggestion for future plans oh And I suggest at least skimming through my post before adding your opinon it took me a while to type(I double checked everything)!!

Uhm, you didn't actually type all of that. I've read most of it before, you just added a few comments here and there.

Anyway, what made you think we didn't read the post? We did, read OUR posts explaining why the tank should not be added, as there are priorities. It would definitely be nice to have, but a Pz. IV Ausf. H would be 10x nicer.

 

[Eater1]

I just love reading any thread where kabex posts, he's so ridiculously biased that I can only laugh. It's especially cool because he has this tone as though he expects the clouds to move before him on command or something.

 

[ROMMEL34]

I didn't read all the post, but basically what would the soviets do to counter it?

lol It appears I hit a nerve. I was not refering to you my good chap! Someone posted that they didn't read the post up above and I did type it! I used a reference book and several websites but that is not the issue at hand so there is no need to get angry I do know there are priorities. I am not suggesting this tank (self propelled gun) be added right this second after all we don't even have any official Kursk maps. I'm mearly suggesting a crucial tank that must be added in the future by the devs.
I would also much rather see the Panzer IV H before the Ferdinand because the Panzer IV H was the most common German tank.

 

[kabex]

I just love reading any thread where kabex posts, he's so ridiculously biased that I can only laugh. It's especially cool because he has this tone as though he expects the clouds to move before him on command or something.

Thanks, I'm the biggest NAZI on the forums.

ROMMEL, yeah then I completely agree. It's nice to have these suggestions backed by actual research, too often people just post "we need kingtiger!!!! to pwn commies!!".

 

[Vakichev]

if the devs could confirm that they are adding a KT then all this would stop. I would do a little dance too... i might add.

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

if they add the Tiger II BEFORE giving us the right used Panzer IV ... i woud have to ask my self then, if they have the real priorities then. Of couse, just speculation. But that games needs some things, seriously way more then the Tiger II

 

[LukeFF]

Let it end already...

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

LOL, no. The SU-152 takes forever to reload, have no AP shells and they were, as you said, artillery platforms not tank hunters. They were made for blowing up stuff, which can't be done in RO:OST. Just like the IS-2 and Pz4F1 but hey, that didn't stop Tripwire so let's make the game even more unrealistic?

the weight of a 152mm artillery shell (something about 40kg if i rember right), shoud do its effect on heavy armored tanks, panthers and tigers as well, not mention any lower armored tank, as panzer IV and III. As said, for that they have not been designed as tank hunters particularly, they done a quite good job in destroying tanks. Russian troops give em the name "Zveroboi", which means translated soemwhat like beast-killer (cause as a counter to the german "zoo"). No one said, it was be best soviet tank hunter ... but it was one of the best answers they had in kurks again tigers and ferdinands(aka elephant), compared, that one of the strongest soviet tank guns was the 75mm and 85mm canons, from the T34/76, KVs and Stalin 85mm. The A19 artillry got somewhat famous, in its direct use again german tanks as well, cause of the lack in better guns.

Otto Carius: "The shell cut the right part of the commander's cupola. I was not beheaded because I had bent down to light my cigarette. Suddenly the Russian assault gun appeared and I gave an order to the gunner to open fire. Kramer shot, and a second shell, from another assault gun, hit in the turret. I can not remember which way I left the Tiger. The head phones-the only thing I have from my destroyed Tiger".

 

[FatPartizan]

In attack SU-152 always moved in the second echelon behind tanks. They always joined system of anti-tank defense. A minimum two Ferdinands have been killed SU-152.

As anti-tank means could be used it only from poverty. But at summer of 1943 of a choice was not.
Here is a little on this theme though it is a lot of delirium.
http://battlefield.ru/index.php?opti... d=50&lang=en

Very strange numbers.

Consequences of work of calibre 155 on tanks here. Though the description does not coincide with a photo. By photos at them long fired.
http://forum.sudden-strike.ru/attach...achmentid=7280
http://forum.sudden-strike.ru/attach...achmentid=7289
http://forum.sudden-strike.ru/attach...achmentid=7290
http://forum.sudden-strike.ru/attach...achmentid=7292
http://forum.sudden-strike.ru/attach...achmentid=7294
Here only HE .
Direct hit of shell SU-152 can kill any modern tank. If it stands on a place and does not shoot. SU-152 loved big slow target .

Near Kursk they shot from shelters, from a short distance more often. Except for them, many guns, from different directions simultaneously shot, there fore to understand who exactly has killed the tank, it was difficult .
Their tactics a shotgun against m-16. On a motionless target, for example the tank in shelter, it could shoot from the big distance.
If it to use on the Orel the main thing to reach heights. Then, ambushes, ambushes and .. b00m h3adshot .
After shot at once to get away in a safe place. It is even better to have covering from tanks of the team .
If will miss on the Panther, it to make the second shots will not allow.
If to come in a field that short jog from shelter to shelter. It as shotgun in counter-strike.

ISU-152 197? .

 

[Comrade Wasabi]

Panzerselbstfahrlafette V is officially the coolest tank name in history.