Teamkill Forgiveness

[melipone]

I've just come across this quote while looking for a tutorial on mutators:

"Q: Team killing has always been a very frustrating aspect of FPS gaming. The RO: Mod included some server options for controlling the frequency of TK punishments and bans. Will Ostfront 41-45 continue to use a similar system for Team killing or has the TK system been revamped in any way to benefit the retail game.

A: [Ingmar Spit] ....We planned to implement a team kill forgive system, somewhat like the mutator that floated around for the Mod, to help prevent people that have no malice intentions from being kicked, but sadly we lacked the time to implement it properly. My hope is that we can find time to implement it in a future update."



"Q: Will the typical UT method of modding (mutators) be available in Red Orchestra, or will some other system be used?

A: [Ingmar Spit]RO:O will support the standard mutator format. In fact, I hope the first mutator that will show up will be a team kill forgive system in mutator format. We originally planned to have a system like that in our first release, but our schedule didn't allow for it."

So basically just wondering if TWI still plans to include this in a patch or should the community come up with one? There is currently one available but it makes the server unstable from what i've read.

My main reason for wanting this is because currently most servers I go on with kicks for team kills I would much rather forgive peeps that don't tk on purpose than see them get kicked. Also AFAIK team kills carry on from 1 map to the next, so if I play on 3 maps and do a tk on each and the limit is 3 for a kick, I will be kicked for just 1 tk per map, even if my tk's weren't my fault! For example, people run into mg fire OR people run where i've thrown a grenade OR someone stands next to the satchels i've placed next to a doorway on maps like Stalingrad Kessel. I'm sure on these occassions people would forgive rather than get you kicked if the option was there.

I know you can set the server up so that tk's are considered differently depending on the type, grenades, normal weapons, arty etc, but the way tk's carry over from one map to the next and the way tk's aren't always the fault of the tker and mistakes will always happen suggests that a forgiveness option would be a great addition to RO.
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[nodachi]

The system is fine, you get punished for mistakes. i'm pretty sure you will be repremanded in real life if you accedently nading your own machinegun nest.

 

[melipone]

I'm talking about tk's that happen that weren't your fault, such as people walking into artillery, people walking into nades, nades going off after you died because you were just about to throw 1 when you were killed, people standing by satchels, people walking into MG fire etc. Under these circumstances no one should be punished. Also I would rather have control of who I punish. If someone kills me and I can see that it was a mistake then I would rather forgive than see them get kicked for no reason.
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[con20or]

The title sounds like the title for a crappy anime movie!

 

[fiftyone]

I'm not a good player, I'm not a bad player, I help people when I can, sry & np are frequent, and I do my best !

I get kicked about once a week,you have to laugh really.

Last night I called in arty 60 or 70 + yards behind the cap zone (Basovka Command Bunker), oops, 3 in a row,,,===kicked...

The worst was during the Free Week, called in Arty behind the Station, even before the Command Bunker was taken, (I was German),oops 3 in a row,,,===kicked.

I accept humbly a one shot TK punishment, but this "multiple TK kick" bugs me.
Commanders are becoming rare.
So I'm interested in the response to this thread !

I'm not going to moan about players walking into friendly fire because I do that quite well also !

 

[slyder73]

I'm talking about tk's that happen that weren't your fault, such as people walking into artillery, people walking into nades, nades going off after you died because you were just about to throw 1 when you were killed, people standing by satchels, people walking into MG fire etc. Under these circumstances no one should be punished. Also I would rather have control of who I punish. If someone kills me and I can see that it was a mistake then I would rather forgive than see them get kicked for no reason.​

Giving the dead player an option to forgive does not work. They tried that in Battlefield2, and the overwhelming majority of players automaticlly punished, regardless of circumstance. Even without the punish, people would not forgive in general. Oddly, psychology proves this LOL, all those experiments they did with people hooked up to electrodes or the participants thinking someone is hooked up to an electrode...then giving someone the power to give electric shocks to people without punishment, reason, or being identified. What did they find? That the vastly overwhelming majority of people will punish (shock) the victim regardless of circumstances in the experiment or the "rules" that were suppoed to bring on punishment.
Long and short of it, give people power to do harm in little ways without restitution and they will.

 

[Dav1d]

Ive noticed since the game has gone retail when you get accidentally tk'd hardly anyone ever says sorry anymore.

I remember in the mod whenver someone accidentally tk'd there was almost always at least a 'sry' or something.

 

[melipone]

Giving the dead player an option to forgive does not work. They tried that in Battlefield2, and the overwhelming majority of players automaticlly punished, regardless of circumstance. Even without the punish, people would not forgive in general. Oddly, psychology proves this LOL, all those experiments they did with people hooked up to electrodes or the participants thinking someone is hooked up to an electrode...then giving someone the power to give electric shocks to people without punishment, reason, or being identified. What did they find? That the vastly overwhelming majority of people will punish (shock) the victim regardless of circumstances in the experiment or the "rules" that were suppoed to bring on punishment.
Long and short of it, give people power to do harm in little ways without restitution and they will.

My limited experience of teamkill forgiveness before retail showed the opposite - people nearly always forgave for TK's and I see people say NP all the time now after a tk. It depends on the person. Me personally will give the player the benefit of the doubt and forgive (usually ), and I think the community as a whole will probably want to forgive if the option is there.

If you assume people will act like an arse just because they can, then whats stopping people getting you kicked by going in arty on purpose? If you want to be an arse then you can and there's numerous ways to do it, so don't knock an idea just because you think people will NEVER forgive because I think they will. It really depends on the people.

 

[Muddy_May]

I miss the forgive mutator from the mod and would like to see it implemented in Ost.

I disagree that forgive systems do not work well in FPS. I do agree, however, that the forgive system in BF2 did not work. The forgive system in the RO mod was great, I think. I would like a chance to forgive people since I get TKed accidentally a **** load of the time.

 

[The End]

Depends on the game, I reckon.

BF2 players don't tend to forgive because the majority of them are little asshats. RO attracts a more sensible and older crowd, so it would work alot better I think. I remember it worked well enough on the old CiA server.

 

[NKatsyev]

I've never yelled at someone for TK'ing, nor do I get all *****y on the mic for it and only will say anything other than "Don't worry, it happens", when it's clearly intentional. Friendly fire is part of warfare, it happens and though sometimes frustrating, it should be expected.

 

[Moz]

Protip: Capt.Marion is a jerk.

We had a mut back in the mod days and it worked great, I've love to see this implimented into standard RO

 

[Rrralphster]

I voted yes.
This is a better system for servers without admins that do have a group of regulars that are normally friendly towards eachother.
The normal system doesn't seem to work properly so there also quite a few servers that have automated kicking for tk's and voting off.
Something like this helps players to have more control.
And as far as I know the mutator you can download at the moment crashes servers.

 

[Grobut]

It can only be a good thing if you think about it, the normal system just punishes regardless, so even if you are playing with people who can't be bothered to forgive, you haven't lost anything, the normal system woulden't have forgiven you either.

So having the option can only be a plus.

 

[U3BAPuHCKUU*_4yBAK]

need something like in wolf:ET

when someone TKed you, you may press F1 or F2 button to forgive or not to forgive TKer. Of course, needed other buttons (because f1,f2 already bound)

 

[Murphy]

I agree that a little message box that asks you:
"Do you want to forgive your teamkiller?
Key x = Yes; Key y = No"
would be better because everyone would know what to do then.

The mutator worked great during the mod days so it would be good to have in Ostfront.

 

[nodachi]

Of course ever one is going to vote A on the bloody forum. But try playing the game with that option.. it's going to be 'punish' 'punish' 'punish'

 

[MILK]

Giving the dead player an option to forgive does not work. They tried that in Battlefield2, and the overwhelming majority of players automaticlly punished, regardless of circumstance. ...

well maybe in BF2 but in mod times of RO I can hardly remember any kick for TKs when this mutator was there - excepts evil respawn TKers... People used this option to forgive very much. I forgave everytime someone said "sry" after TKed me.

 

[Mr. Cheese]

Even if there are idiots who don't forgive when it was an accident/their fault they got tked, it's better to have some if not most who do forgive as opposed to a system that punishes [adds 1 to the tk kick count] for all TKs no matter what the circumstance.

 

[MAXX]

I'd forgive any TK that was not deliberate

I'd forgive any TK that was not deliberate

I'm talking about tk's that happen that weren't your fault, such as people walking into artillery, people walking into nades, nades going off after you died because you were just about to throw 1 when you were killed, people standing by satchels, people walking into MG fire etc. Under these circumstances no one should be punished. Also I would rather have control of who I punish. If someone kills me and I can see that it was a mistake then I would rather forgive than see them get kicked for no reason.​

From what I've seen, you can tell if somebody is TK-ing just for fun. I would even forgive all the people who have shot me when I was right among the enemy since I'm sure that my tendency to go forward often puts me right among the obvious targets. In the real world I probably would not be all that eager to get close to a lot of people with big guns, so real world punishment arguments do not apply to my team mates who shoot me accidently even if they were aiming at me and meant to hit me.