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The Machine guns

no bullet goes "straight" to the target. The longe the distance to the target is, the higher the deviation is. For rifles, with "high" accuracy, this devition is just way smaller then for assault rifles or machine pistols. Thats why sniping is on long ranges, a absoulte chalange and evry "usual" shoter can use a scope without much problems, on 100m. A "con" fire, IS realistic to some degree, compared to WHAT weapon you use! Or as some already said, the bullets woud go, where you aim, all the time, which is for some weapons, not imaginable.

What makes it strange by times is, when you use on, 50m for example, short, clear bursts (letz say between 3-6 bullets per bursts) with machine guns and mps, but you do NOT hit the enemy even with the 5 or 6 burst, nor does the enemy get in to cover ... (not even i go to cover all the time, when i notice someone is shoting at me). I notice, with machinpistols, i usualy tend, to empty always my whole magazin in to 1 single enemy, even on close range, cause the chance to hit then, is most of the time higer, the risk, it coud be a skilled riflemen, using the advantage of his rifle, to hit you, in the delay, between your burst, when you havnt got him with the first burst, is just to high for me. Dont know, if its realistic or not, but i have somewhat good succes with it. A strange thing is just, that others seem, to do the same, using a burst, killing me with the FIRST one, but other times, not even with the 3th or 4 burst (which i retourn fire then, when i hae a rifle, between there delays, and usualy killing them).

a problem, why you are "under fire" acting to cool in game, is cause you get missed, TO often in game, if you ask me. I find my self way to often, geting missed, even when i KNOW the enemy is "aiming accuratly at me" (hearing the whiz of bullets, and the shoots battering very close to me), with machine guns and mps, of course, im not talking from distances more then 100m, cause there, full automatic shooting is usualy wasting bullets, but on 50m even with a constant fire, at least one bullet shoud hit you. Of course while resting the gun, or from a supporting position (prone) etc.
 
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Sichartshofen said:
I agree.

The MG34 and MG42 control and accuracy is just crap. While the DP27 has easily controlled recoil and far better accuracy. Once again the Germans get shafted. The MG42 should atleast be able to fire in the assualt stance. There is no logical reason for why you aren't able to. If it was for balance it actually makes it unbalanced.

The assault stance is just ridiculous, you have no control over where the MG goes when firing. It was fine in the mod and it didn't need to be changed.
The MG42 was in fact way too heavy too be helded by one person standing. Let alone shoot it.

There were MG42 and MG34 crews for a REASON.
 
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Verluste21 said:
The MG42 was in fact way too heavy too be helded by one person standing. Let alone shoot it.

There were MG42 and MG34 crews for a REASON.
Um...the MG42 only weighs eleven kilos, thats nine kilos less than I have on my one handed dungbells and there are plenty of videos showing the MG42 being held by one person and firing it in the assault stance. In fact the German army still teaches that tactic today.

Yes, they did have crews for effciency of operation and carrying all the extra gear.

Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsvMHrWOcEw - Assault position (inexpert)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDysZBfnYGY -Assault position German army (expert)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAxkvctd5Ps - Soldiers marching with and firing the MG42.
 
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Witzig said:
You know in training they use a colleague to rest the gun right? But gauranteed in real combat (if German forces ever see real combat) that practice would never be used! Its pointless & un-necessary and will never happen IRL :rolleyes:

Some peeps come up with 'suggestions' about being able to use fellow soldiers as rests, and use videos like that as reference...

Its ****ing stoopid!!

Also note how tiny each burst was, from standing, walking or totally prone. If peeps in RO fired like that, there will be none of these complaints :rolleyes:
 
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D3terioNation said:
You know in training they use a colleague to rest the gun right? But gauranteed in real combat (if German forces ever see real combat) that practice would never be used! Its pointless & un-necessary and will never happen IRL :rolleyes:

Some peeps come up with 'suggestions' about being able to use fellow soldiers as rests, and use videos like that as reference...

Its ****ing stoopid!!

Also note how tiny each burst was, from standing, walking or totally prone. If peeps in RO fired like that, there will none of these complaints :rolleyes:

what woud you do then, for example, as a soldier, in stalingrad, facing a enemy 2m from you, only armed with your mg42 in hand, while your comrade with the rifle, is lying wounded/dead on the ground ?

Only for curriosty.
 
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Verluste21 said:
The MG42 was in fact way too heavy too be helded by one person standing. Let alone shoot it.

There were MG42 and MG34 crews for a REASON.
Time to school the children again. Where the hell are you people reading this bull****?

A fully loaded MG42 weighs 25 pounds (11.6kg). If you have trouble holding this amount of weight you're either a wuss or a 5 year old girl.
 
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Sichartshofen said:
Time to school the children again. Where the hell are you people reading this bull****?

A fully loaded MG42 weighs 25 pounds (11.6kg). If you have trouble holding this amount of weight you're either a wuss or a 5 year old girl.
Yeah. Gotta love these people who know absolutely nothing pulling facts out of their ass.

That's who we are arguing against.
 
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Theres obviosuly a problem with the german mg's, especially the 42. I take the mg as much as i can and quite often finish top of the scroreboard, you can still do well with them with proper positioning and use but there are so many instances of getting picked off by a pop up rifleman or players running through a hail of lead without a scratch that you have to be stupid to argue that theres nothing wrong with them. We all expect the gun to shake rattle and roll like a *****, your getting 20 rounds a second afterall, but to have the recoil to the extent where you'll be looking at the sky after 10 rounds is redicolous.

Bursting can work .... but often doesn't, in contrast extended long bursts are more controlable and more deadly, but then you run out of ammo after about 10 kills. Too me thats just ****ed up. Would be great if a Dev woud once reply to a MG thread :rolleyes:

and truman, pull ur head out of your ass ...
 
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BLind^ said:
a pop up rifleman
Aaah you cant beat skill :rolleyes:

jedinstven-o crni Wuk said:
what woud you do then, for example, as a soldier, in stalingrad, facing a enemy 2m from you, only armed with your mg42 in hand, while your comrade with the rifle, is lying wounded/dead on the ground ?

Only for curriosty.
Ummm as an mg'er in Stalingrad, if I got that close, I deserved to die...
 
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It would be good if these things where in the next patch:
More accuracy to start then a reduction the longer the burst
A little less recoil
Greater suppression effect

In the future:
Being able to duck well stiff deployed and then being able to reload
Use IS well deployed
Stop a reload and duck or run.
Reload while not deployed but on a flat surface
Make it easier to deploy in windows i.e. not having to duck then bump into the wall until you get the ability to deploy.


I hope that the devs at least get the top 3 things I said and put in some of the other stuff in the future.

Didn
 
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BLind^ said:
Theres obviosuly a problem with the german mg's, especially the 42. I take the mg as much as i can and quite often finish top of the scroreboard, you can still do well with them with proper positioning and use but there are so many instances of getting picked off by a pop up rifleman or players running through a hail of lead without a scratch that you have to be stupid to argue that theres nothing wrong with them. We all expect the gun to shake rattle and roll like a *****, your getting 20 rounds a second afterall, but to have the recoil to the extent where you'll be looking at the sky after 10 rounds is redicolous.

Bursting can work .... but often doesn't, in contrast extended long bursts are more controlable and more deadly, but then you run out of ammo after about 10 kills. Too me thats just ****ed up. Would be great if a Dev woud once reply to a MG thread :rolleyes:

and truman, pull ur head out of your ass ...
Sorry you have problems with them. It has nothing to do with how they are modeled. Wait a minute? Are you *****ing because you got 10 kills and ran out of ammo? Sounds like they are working fine to me....

I think it's laughable that there's about a dozen of you who call yourself "the majority" and think because you all sign on to a single thread that, "everybody" agrees with you. :rolleyes:
 
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poping up and down in ironsights is no skill, if i were moving back and forth or could even move it all it would be a skill. Even the lowliest beginner can be a good rifleman on a target that cant move :rolleyes:

Truman ... I have no problem with the mg, infact i do very well with them, however it still doesn't change the fact that the weapon should still perform to a higher standard than it does now. It seems we are the majority, as there a numerous threads on this subject all with multple pages of people agreeing, on the other hand there are only a few people such as yourself taking the line up "i pwn with the weapon, it cant be the weapon thats as failt must be because nearly every other player is a noob and cba to learn how to use it" bull****.

i'm not *****ing because i got 10 kills and run out of ammo. I'm complaingng because the most efficient way of using the gun is exntended bursts of up to 4 seconds. This is best way to control the recoil as it levels out after a while, the fact that we have to hold the trigger down for a while before we get a properly controlable weapon is what i'm complaining about.
 
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the machine/nerf guns

the machine/nerf guns

I think some of the key problems have been brought up...

1 - hit detection
2 - lack of object penetration
3 - THE WORST - the emergence of the shot from the head model as opposed to the weapon model.

Aside of a few exceptional players who claim to be able to "rule the streets" picking the MG is just an excuse to get shot... these are not the weapons that caused infantry troops to come up with effective strategies of avoidance in WW2...if they had functioned in the war as poorly as they do in this game, frankly the war would have been over before the Americans ever got involved.

An historical example...When the Canadians were taking streets at Ortona, they were forced to "mousehole" through the attics of buildings with charges to move up the street rather than engage the mg42's directly. Does this sound like a weapon a rifleman can simply pop out and shoot? Up until the point that you can flank it and grenade or flank fire it, no-one that I no of, including modern armed forces suggest direct engagement with an mg42 or c-6 yet that is precisely what happens regularly with this gun in RO:Ost.

The personal experience of my sister-in-law's grand father in the Royal Winnepeg Rifles confirmed this... you stick your head up, you died. You charged at it, you died. You moved ONLY when they changed ammo or barrels and then you moved quickly and under cover.

Direct engagement should be absolute suicide. Period. If you move in its cone of fire anywhere up to 100 yards you should be dead. 200 you should be getting frequently wounded...anything past that and maybe you might get the odd miss due to recoil.

Given the ability of the mapmaker to control the amount of MG's in play, we don't have to worry about this becoming some kind of "ultimate" weapon as in other FPS's and its general slowness to move and set up plus cumbersome use would render it unweildy to all but a few... but come on... these weapons need a major overhaul.

Any average MG user should not be "picked off" by a so called "skilled" player who leans out at the right time...this simply does not reflect history...you want the mg dead either flank him or charge in and take massive casualties...or do the smart thing and get the sniper to shoot him from 300 yards...that's what they are for.
 
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BLind^ said:
Truman ... I have no problem with the mg, infact i do very well with them, however it still doesn't change the fact that the weapon should still perform to a higher standard than it does now. It seems we are the majority, as there a numerous threads on this subject all with multple pages of people agreeing, on the other hand there are only a few people such as yourself taking the line up "i pwn with the weapon, it cant be the weapon thats as failt must be because nearly every other player is a noob and cba to learn how to use it" bull****.

Rak said:
What's the logic in "OMG I OWN SOO GOOD SO THEY ARE MODELLED CORRECTLY!!1111111111" thinking?


None.
Rak said:
Being able to master them, does not mean they are modelled correctly.
Rak said:
So you're saying you are OK with any gun in game as long as it HITS something occasionally right? So, you don't care if it resemble the real weapon or not as long as you can master it? And you're talking about this in a game that aim for realism right?

Maybe you should stop playing realistic games.
. . .

This has been said(including %80 of them from me) 1000x times here, and 1000x times in other threads. Yet he still doesn't get it.
 
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