Implement lag compensation

[Beardy]

I used to think Source had terrible hitboxes. Then I started messing with my rates to reduce choke/loss to 0, and sure enough, they're spot on now, save for the occasional server.

How often do you try playing practice mode? There's a huge difference between practice mode and 70 ping.

I don't know about you, but I shoot at a lot more enemies than I get shot at, so that behind the wall issue seems like a fair trade if all my bullets hit more often.

 

[Hyperion2010]

Let me put it this way:

At lest with the UE2.5 netcode ping actually TELLS you something important, like how much you *might* have to compensate. In source ping means about jack ****, I often have better proformance playing at 150 ping than 30, which is absolute BS and sort of gives ammo to the argument that lag comp ruines the game for everyone else with a low ping.

Realize also that because of ROO's balistics system calculates where bullets are lag compensation would require a complete rewrite of this code at some point because it is virtually guaranteed to screw it up.

 

[Beardy]

I play DoDS on with a ping of around 50 usually, although I notice no difference at all between 50 and 150. I've watched my friend play CSS with dial up at a ping of 250, and even it wasn't bad.

DoDS's bazooka works fine with lag compensation.

 

[Hyperion2010]

See, thats the problem, when someone is having a "smooth" game at 250 ping, that means someone with a 50 ping is probably having a horribly out of sync game (and I've had them).

Also, the bazook works just a tad differently since its hit detection is "explode all over your face" and not "which body part did I pass through at this time. With lag comp "this time" no longer exists, that or it is move to the time of the LAGGIEST player, which is absolute BS, time should be set by the server and the server alone.

 

[Comrade Wasabi]

I have been shot while sprinting around a corner in BF2 4789520345743657092346509374265043275435724306534276543279056034729657430925234569075610946517560742956407564759643175634109754617561438657431065834176570465103473016507984156154 times. Lag compensation like this would literally stop me from playing RO.

 

[AceOfSpades]

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Don't understand this much, so I posted this for someone who does. I've never had a problem with CS:S hitboxes or RO:O hitboxes.

 

[Beardy]

See, thats the problem, when someone is having a "smooth" game at 250 ping, that means someone with a 50 ping is probably having a horribly out of sync game (and I've had them).

No idea where you get this. I play DoDS with 50 ping, against people with 200 or so, and I have no problems.

With lag comp "this time" no longer exists, that or it is move to the time of the LAGGIEST player, which is absolute BS, time should be set by the server and the server alone.

It's not set by the laggiest player, it's set by who shot the bullet.

 

[Hyperion2010]

It's not set by the laggiest player, it's set by who shot the bullet.

AKA, not the server, and in most cases people with lower pings will magically die after rounding a corner when shot by a player with higher ping.

 

[Beardy]

AKA, not the server, and in most cases people with lower pings will magically die after rounding a corner when shot by a player with higher ping.

And how frustrating is it for the guy with 100 ping to shoot at some guy running to cover, but have him dodge a bullet because of ping?

I find missing perfectly good shots a lot worse than dying when I was barely around a corner.

 

[Murphy]

The point is, that the lag still affects the gameplay, with or without the compenstions. The only difference is where it strikes.

I

 

[Beardy]

I find that even with a ping of 70, it creates an unrealistic amount of leading time. I couldn't bear to play at anything over 80. Part of the reason I quit America's Army was because of having to lead my shots at close range was insane and unrealistic. Putting your crosshair on an enemy and firing while they strafe and watching your bullets trail behind them is, imo, one of the worst possible occurrences in online gaming.

 

[Hyperion2010]

Leading is because bullets in ROO have travel time, personally I really dont see how lag comp would do anything but screw things up. Just learn to aim ahead of the running player.

 

[Beardy]

Leading is because bullets in ROO have travel time, personally I really dont see how lag comp would do anything but screw things up. Just learn to aim ahead of the running player.

The amount of lead time is negligible for all but the longest ranges in RO. I'm talking about 5 feet away. Try practice mode, and tell me you need to lead the target from 5 feet away.

 

[Hyperion2010]

At 20 meters in practice mode I lead my targets, it is just a habbit.

 

[Beardy]

I find when I lead at all in practice mode, I miss.

 

[[tR]Mad Mac]

The only time I noticeable have to lead more than I would in practice mode is with pings greater than 150.

If a person is having pings that high, either play on a closer server or upgrade your ISP. Don't change the RO shooting system, it is smooth and PREDICTABLE as is.

 

[Beardy]

Since I find it hard to argue with blatant denial, I'll offer some proof.
http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=files/080806/1155077656/practice0ping.avi

As you can see, there's no delay from the animation to the bullet puff.

Next, a ping of 160. No, it's not 150, but if 150 ping doesn't make a difference, according to you, then the extra 10 wouldn't hurt either.
http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=files/080806/1155077832/160test.avi

I find it strange that some of you are defending lag, as if it's a good thing.

 

[Phoenix-D]

We're not defending lag we're saying RO handles it well enough already.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as the "bullets take 1/10 of a second to arrive, no leading needed" argument- the sprint speed in RO is about 5 m/s (you cover 100m in 19.x seconds). So in that 1/10 of a second the target has moved .5 meters- one and a half feet- if he's moving laterally to you.

That's quite enough to generate a miss..

 

[Hyperion2010]

You cant just go plugging new code into an old system. You cant predict how it will react. The netcode interfaces with an incredable ammount of the game's code and just looking at it you cant predict why something might happen, therefore, you dont change it because it isnt broken.

Take for example the "low fps no recoil" bug. Would you care to explain why something it is not apparently linked to FPS in the code should display this behavior? Now extrapolate that over to hit detection.

 

[Beardy]

EDIT: Oh, and as far as the "bullets take 1/10 of a second to arrive, no leading needed" argument- the sprint speed in RO is about 5 m/s (you cover 100m in 19.x seconds). So in that 1/10 of a second the target has moved .5 meters- one and a half feet- if he's moving laterally to you.

That's quite enough to generate a miss..

So then you agree with me.

You cant just go plugging new code into an old system. You cant predict how it will react. The netcode interfaces with an incredable ammount of the game's code and just looking at it you cant predict why something might happen, therefore, you dont change it because it isnt broken.

Take for example the "low fps no recoil" bug. Would you care to explain why something it is not apparently linked to FPS in the code should display this behavior? Now extrapolate that over to hit detection.

Maybe I can't predict how it would react, but a Dev could shed some light. I would consider the current system pretty bad, as it really adds to the gamey feeling. You could even say it's Unreal. Terrible pun or not, compensating for ping ruins the immersion for me.