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The Machine guns

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#61
Harry S. Truman said:
In the video, use your still mouse cursor as a stationary point (the camera doesn't move) and look how much the postion of the end of the barrel changes during firing. If that's not recoil, I don't know what is.
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Looks like you just pwned yourself because the barrel hardly move UP, but backwards. Take a look again. It even ends up at the exact same spot after every burst

As for the MP40 video, that is a SWAT guy. I'm sure he received extra training on how to control an automatic weapon really well. And then theres the fact he's on a range of course, he's in a comfortable environment, not in a combat situation.

The MP40 is fine. Really. Do you guys even pull down your mouse and crouch while firing the thing? Or rest it on a sandbag?
 
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#63
I just played practice mode trying to control recoil for the MG42 and I did a good job at it, then I tried it online then the recoil was ultra high even when I pulled down on the mouse. Maybe it's because the place I was firing from online I had to stand. I'll go back to practice mode to see if there's recoil differences depending on your stance. So now the only thing I want changed is the cone-of-fire.

"So distinct and terrifying was the weapon, that the United States Army created training films to aid its soldiers in dealing with the psychological trauma of facing the weapon in battle."

Either the lack of fear-of-death or the cone-of-fire explain why suppressing is nearly impossible with the MG42.
 
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#65
gonzman said:
The only MG fire I hide from is tank MG fire because I know I can't just pop my head up and shoot it in the face with my rifle to remove the threat.
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EXACTLY!

It seems its the only MG in game that feels realistic, cause the enemy target knows, "****, theres no chance"

always rember this, when i get pined down by tank mgs, behind a obstacle. Only times im realy frightened by mgs.

aag567 said:
Either the lack of fear-of-death or the cone-of-fire explain why suppressing is nearly impossible with the MG42.
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its just not deadly enough. To often i find my self, walkign around, beeing "missed" by the guy who is using the mg34/42, on point blank range (50m maybe?), that shoud not happen realy. With the usual distances we have here in game, the Mg shoud be as deadly like the rifles are.
 
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#66
gonzman said:
The only MG fire I hide from is tank MG fire because I know I can't just pop my head up and shoot it in the face with my rifle to remove the threat.
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If and when enough players learn to properly shoot with them, it might have the same effect. I'd say about 90% of the machine gunners I face can't hit the broadside of a barn, but there's a few others of you out there that I respect and will actively look for and stay away from their tracers.

I think I might write a machine gunner guide.
 
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#69
Harry S. Truman said:
If and when enough players learn to properly shoot with them, it might have the same effect. I'd say about 90% of the machine gunners I face can't hit the broadside of a barn, but there's a few others of you out there that I respect and will actively look for and stay away from their tracers.

I think I might write a machine gunner guide.
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Yeah that'd be good. Post it on the tactics forum :)

HEre is a clip of DUCKING while reloading an MG.
Its a bit out there.. but U'll get the point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g68rao5SqxY&mode=related&search=
 
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#70
Harry S. Truman said:
I watched the same video you did and you can't tell me the end of that gun does not moves around. It moves at least 1-2 cm vertical and moved back 7-8 cm. We are not getting an eye view across the sights of the weapon. If you are looking at a target say, 300 meters away, and the end of the barrel raises say 2 cm during firing (which I would guess from looking at the video) it could throw you off your target quite a bit. He may not appear to be shaking relative to the camera, but you can bet your ass with that thing pushed up against his shoulder his view was shaking.

That convinces me even more that there's nothing wrong with the recoil in the game. Don't believe me? In the video, use your still mouse cursor as a stationary point (the camera doesn't move) and look how much the postion of the end of the barrel changes during firing. If that's not recoil, I don't know what is. Even that amount is going to change your aim point, which will increase significantly with distance to the target.

We are talking about an MG42 on a bipod. Many of you, I'm sure, are referring to a "heavy" MG42 on a tripod or mounted on something. There's a significant difference in those use of the weapon.

Using the same technique, also notice how much less change there was in the short bursts compared to the longer one.

Anyone want to do the math of what a 1 cm rise at the end of the barrel would cause the aim to be off at 300 m? It would have to be at least a meter or more after a 1 cm rise. Of course, if you fire short tapping bursts, it doesn't do that.
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LOL maybe you should get glasses. IN the video I posted, camera DOES move, yet you can CLEARLY see that he's not getting any insane recoil at all. He's only getting a slight backwards recoil, which is ok.

The only bad thing about recoil is, when you pull the trigger. The gun move backwards and up a little(just because of him, and the surface he's doing it), but keeps a really steady position if he continues. So, in constant shooting this means the machine gun is more accurate than your so called gamey "tapping". This is not an SMG, it's designed to be accurate over long bursts. It's not a "tapping" weapon.

You can clearly see what I mean in the first video that posted here. No visible recoil at all when long he's bursting.

And no, I'm not writing here because I can't use them as you claim, but the "bad" changes are just so visible after mod version. It's just silly to for you to say everything is perfect about MG's yet it's clear you don't have a clue how good the mod did MG's(at least compared to this).
 
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#72
Believe what you want, but if you want recoil to go backwards you are going to be pretty pissed when your sight picture gets completely messed ;)

The handy thing about how this is currently handled is that the sight picture is ALWAYS maintained which means that you can always predict where your bullets will land. IF there is backward recoil your sight picture will NOT remain perfect which means that you will NOT be able to predict where your bullets will fall. You will have to go by tracers and/or hitpuffs.

That being said the recoil IS high in ROO, but you have to remember that all of the people you see firing these weapons arent some senile grandma (yes I know that video with the mp40) whose muscles have atrophied. In most cases they are people who have used weapons before and know how to control the recoil. In those videos you really have no idea how much recoil these weapons inately have. If you watched some players firing some of these weapons in game you might discover that you see just as minimal recoil as you do in those vidoes.

The MP40 cycle rate in game seems to be a bit low to me, but I'm probably wrong, however you will notice that the stance the guy is in is the one that your character goes into when you are crouched IS ;) Also, look at his left arm and you will see that he is actually exerting force to keep the thing down.
EDIT: If you would take the time to look at some of the other vidoes of that guy you will see that there is some recoil ;) Try the one at 25m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq-JKQyWit0&mode=related&search=
EDIT again: Feel free to look at the ones with the "cousin" titles in Las Vegs, there you will see what happens when you dont control your recoil! You get muzzel climb!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FO3IVhyXW8&mode=related&search=

What does this teach us? Perhaps a bit less in some cases, but otherwise:

PULL DOWN! Thats why you have a mouse.
 
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#75
The handy thing about how this is currently handled is that the sight picture is ALWAYS maintained which means that you can always predict where your bullets will land. IF there is backward recoil your sight picture will NOT remain perfect which means that you will NOT be able to predict where your bullets will fall. You will have to go by tracers and/or hitpuffs.
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It only goes backwards when he touches the trigger first time. It's stable if he continues shooting.

I watched that MP40 video :) The guys just doesn't push the weapon onto his shoulder, so the gun moves because there is free space :)
 
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#76
Don't argue with Truman, Rak. He's right and everybody else is wrong when it comes to MG performance in RO. Even the ppl. that have real life experience with MG's like the MG 3 are wrong.:rolleyes: Who needs realistic modelling of the german MG's when you can "TAP TAP TAP" (Wich doesn't work all the time btw.)
Currently the german MG's are just flawed. But this has discussed to braindead in several other threads allready.
 
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#77
Teq said:
Suggestion: limit the mouse sensitivity on the MG while running
to simulate heavy weapon handling. Or some kinda a movement delay.
So when you stop the movement on the mouse, the gun continues to move abit.

In fact simmulating weapon handling on all wapons would be really NICE.
Waving a Mp40 should be alot easier and more accurate than a long Rifle...
Or not to speak about the PTRD!!
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I`m with you , Good Ideas
 
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#78
To the people who think the german mg is fine why is it in this game that russian dp can consistently out perform its german counter part honestly i thought the german mg-42 was the best mg of the war why is it in this game the russian dp is far superior. Im a good mg player with the russian dp even the mg-42 im quite good but i consistently live longer and kill more with russian dp then with the german one why is that and dont say get some skillz.
 
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#79
I found this on 2Manny's forum. I play on his server a lot. It's a pretty good MG guide. He explains exactly how I use the MG42.

http://2manny.com/forum/index.php?topic=139.0

MG42 i have to say that i really didnt like this mg when i first was using it.just like i didnt understand the SMGs..i didnt understand this weapon and i was using it ALL WRONG. i have put in ALOT of time lately on the 42 and i really think it IS the TRUE machine gun of the game. your useless on the move so get used to the pistol. you start with only one belt of ammo in reserve. when i first used this i would run 20 rounds at a target and just spray them.i would MISS alot.i figured the amount of bullets spraying around would just kill wahtever was close the the sights..i was wrong. the 42 is VERY powerful for the team if players will run by it and give it ammo, because without CONSTANT resupply youll end up dropping it because your out. it seems to have a wierd "bug" sometimes when emplaced, the bullets shift to the left..just a little bit.THAT SAID there are really great things about it. on the longest ranges in the game you fire out a burst of little bursts at your targets, say 4 rounds...5 rounds....4 rounds....5 rounds.. then change the barrel, and keep this up. the mg 42 i SO accurate when the barrle is changed with just a little bit of lead and some elevation to your shot,exposed infantry DONT have a chance. after you fire 5 rounds from the gun, its starts throwing bullets all around the sight. but the FIRST 5 ROUNDS are right under the sight. keep your bursts short, and at extreme ranges you aim a little high..higher than all the other mgs but its not much more, and a little bit of lead. 5 rounds bursts. it changes barrles fast and reloads fast as well. if you have some teamplayers that will give you ammo, the bring the 42. if your on your own then it may not work for you. its easy to try to hold the fire button and just try to hose down your long range target, but if you see an mg 42 doing that from the other side,you will see tracers come at you...then ALL AROUND. you will not hit your target,and if you did it was luck. when you see short bursts of tracers real close together,and staying in a straight stream, then the mg42 gunner is using small bursts,and he is MUCH more dangerous. if you can get a battle buddy,and have him watch your flanks,and bring ammo,you will dominate lanes of fire. if you go down your buddy should pick up the ammo, and weapon and keep the mg going. if your get there and your buddy is still fighting with an mg, the dig in next to him and you have a dual mg pill box. twice the chance of killing enemys in your lanes.i have found the MG42 is MUCH more accurate than i thought. iwas firing 20 rounds and wasting the "sweet spot" on the barrel. now after 5-or 6 short bursts, i change out the barrel,and im good for REAL long ranges.try it! try using it like you would the 98k , fire 4-5 round bursts, and i think youll find if you keep the barrel changed out it can be just as accurate as a rifle.
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Combine this with some smart placement and you will OWN guys. I use the 42 on Kongisplatz all the time and I can shoot guys when they are almost fogged out in the distance.
 
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#80
Daemion said:
Don't argue with Truman, Rak. He's right and everybody else is wrong when it comes to MG performance in RO. Even the ppl. that have real life experience with MG's like the MG 3 are wrong.:rolleyes: Who needs realistic modelling of the german MG's when you can "TAP TAP TAP" (Wich doesn't work all the time btw.)
Currently the german MG's are just flawed. But this has discussed to braindead in several other threads allready.
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Don't stick words in my mouth. I never claimed such a thing. I just tried to get you people to understand that the MG's in the game are more than effective if you use them properly. Of course, you and others like you just claim they are flawed because you don't want to take the time to learn how to use them. You think they should be point, spray, kill. I'll say it again. I don't have any super-human gaming skillz. So why is it I can do it but YOU cant?
 
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