Melee Attack with Fists

[SiC-Disaster]

It would hurt when you see some jagoff running around the battlefield with just his fists and then K'ock 4 guys inna row, as you know that would happen... you people are always complaining about 'gaminess' then you come in and request something like this?

i think others have pointed out that a frontal assault is futile, so im not gonna do that.
also i didnt mean this to sound like a weapon, like you can 'scroll' to get your grenades and stuff, this should only happen when you lose your weapon IMO.
it should NOT be a selectable weapon, but you should be able to scroll away from it, and then you lost it, you cant go back to it.
like: *some guy shoots your rifle out of your hands* now you stand there with your fists, right? you decide it isnt gonna work, you want your grenade, you scroll to get your grenade, youve got it, but youve lost your fists now, and you cant get them back. make it something like a panzerfaust or whatever, i dont know. just to have that chance, or decide to do something else, but you lose that chance, so no ninja stuff. by all means, i do not want to encourage ninja stuff, honestly

i ofcourse get your concern REZ, but somehow i allways get the feeling you guys deliberately mis-understand me
or it is jus tso damn hard to explain something in another language, let alone your own language wich often enough presents a challenge allready XD

 

[Chi]

Melee

Melee

By REZ

It would hurt when you see some jagoff running around the battlefield with just his fists and then K'ock 4 guys inna row, as you know that would happen... you people are always complaining about 'gaminess' then you come in and request something like this?

First you insist that anyone would simply be killed if up against someone with a gun while unarmed. You now say that players will run around knocking everyone out. Is that not a contradiction there ?

Please keep this civil, with constructive posts only. There is no point in having a suggestions and ideas thread if when someone posts an idea it is immediately flamed. Any new players reading this forum will be put off from posting anything. Lets not turn this into a childish CS type forum.

I first posted this with a touch of humour and am just saying what others in game and friends think also. If you dont agree like I said earlier, fair enough. I dont expect everyone who visits this forum to agree with all I say, just to take it in, think about it and post a view without any sarcastic comments or nastiness. It is possible I read them all the time.

I would have thought the devs have thought about this anyway and the fact it isnt already ingame speaks volumes. If it does not get added I will not lose any sleep over it as this game outshines anything else I have played for years.

We are all on the same side here and we all want the game to grow and improve. Keep it friendly and lets not go down the road of other forums with petty flaming and arguments over what at the end of the day is only a game.

Ta

Chi

 

[Archeoptrix]

I kind of liked the idea someone mentioned in some other thread, that when your weapon is shot out of your hand you then pull out your spade/knife/whathaveya.

 

[REZ]

First you insist that anyone would simply be killed if up against someone with a gun while unarmed. You now say that players will run around knocking everyone out. Is that not a contradiction there ?

I'm talking about in real life... a person in their right mind would not try to punch someone who just shot their gun out of their hands.. I mean, really..


also, no one is flaming you, or anyone else, Chi.. it's the idea that catches the brunt of the sarcasm... you need not feel under attack if someone disagrees with your suggestions.


I want to know what happens if you do punch somebody in game... does he die? get knocked out only to recover later? is it only good for knocking the other guys weapon from his hands? After the fist fight is over, then what? are you still running around with just your fists?

 

[pookie]

then your nickname really suits you pookie haha

(srry for doubleposting but i just had to say that )

Yeah, that's on purpose... It's not hard to live up to a name like Pookie. If I chose "SuperBadNinjaKiller", then people would expect more from me!

It's my own brand of psychological warfare.

 

[Zbojnik]

hahaha, cmon man, you would be killed. A tough guy attitude would surely get you killed in a situation like the one described. Of course if you have a deathwish, then be my guest and try to 'punch' a trained soldier holding a loaded weapon, lmao.. I'm sorry it just sounds so funny I need to laugh.

I think everyone knows that a single punch can knock a guy out, and possibly break bones in the face, and since you are absolutely sure that those in this thread have 'sissy stick arms' I guess its okay to say in turn that maybe some of the meat-headed macho construction workers out there dont understand what a bullet can do, or what the stock of a rifle can do in the hands of a trained killer.

I'm no e-tough guy, but I'll take your challenge anytime... give me a rifle that needs the bullet bolted, and you about 6 feet away, oh hell yeah, anytime my friend . ...and I'm no trained soldier, imagine if it were.


waitaminute, Zbojnik, do you know how many soldiers surrendered in WWII? Are you saying that they are little girls?

Quite the contrary, but do you know how many fought? For example when this one Type IX U-Boat was sunk, sorry can't remember number, only two survivers got out. One refused to be rescued and drowned himself infront of the British Destroyer while the other allowed himself to be rescued, and when on board stole some guy's pistol and shot 7 crewman before they got him.

 

[pookie]

I think everyone knows that a single punch can knock a guy out, and possibly break bones in the face, and since you are absolutely sure that those in this thread have 'sissy stick arms' I guess its okay to say in turn that maybe some of the meat-headed macho construction workers out there dont understand what a bullet can do, or what the stock of a rifle can do in the hands of a trained killer.

I'm no e-tough guy, but I'll take your challenge anytime... give me a rifle that needs the bullet bolted, and you about 6 feet away, oh hell yeah, anytime my friend . ...and I'm no trained soldier, imagine if it were.

OK, the "sissy stick-arm" thing was an unfair generalization, similar to a comment like "meat-headed macho construction worker". Do you like the home you live in, the roads you drive on, your plumbing, and the roof over your head? Thank a construction worker. I'd also like to thank all the sissies for these video games that I like so much. (Kidding guys! Joke! )

The "you" I was referring to wasn't any particular "you", so there's no need to take it personally. I said "...if you had a bolt action rifle and missed me at close range the first time...", so it's a limited situation, but yes I think I could get too close for you to fire on me again before that second round was chambered. Once we've both got our hands on that gun it's anybody's game. I certainly wouldn't turn my back on you so you could shoot me.

Again, the "you" is general, so please don't feel like you have to show up at my front door with an antique boltie, REZ! Oh, hell yeah!

What were we talking about?

 

[Chi]

Melee

Melee

I'm talking about in real life... a person in their right mind would not try to punch someone who just shot their gun out of their hands.. I mean, really..

I have friends who have spent years in the armed forces. They were all trained in unarmed combat and how to disarm an enemy in the field and use their weapon against them. Any tactic to gain an advantage is taught whether it be fists, elbows, strangulation, gauging at the eyes ect. Dont forget I am and always have talked about close quarters here where this would be feasable.

also, no one is flaming you, or anyone else, Chi.. it's the idea that catches the brunt of the sarcasm... you need not feel under attack if someone disagrees with your suggestions.

I am not in any way attacking any particular person on this. If someone has an idea and no matter how ridiculous it may seem to some they are entitled to their opinion without fear of flaming or ridicule whether its the idea itself or not.

I want to know what happens if you do punch somebody in game... does he die? get knocked out only to recover later? is it only good for knocking the other guys weapon from his hands? After the fist fight is over, then what? are you still running around with just your fists?

Someone suggested the blur effect when a player is but smacked which would be a good idea which would suit this idea too. I all too often crack someone across the skull with a rifle, which lets face would smart more than a little to have them spin round and shoot me. I realise the chances of overcoming someone empty handed would be small but a small chance is better than no chance at all. If and when you did overcome the player then you would be able to take his weapon and finish him off. I dont know if we should be able to kill a player or just stun him to the point he drops his gear which you could pick up and use while he is stunned/knocked out. It is possible that a person is knocked out or even killed with one punch especially a trained soldier who knows what they are doing.

Ta

Chi

 

[breadtruck]

I give my stamp of approval on this idea, since I wanted it too http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9799

Its a silly "feature" to leave us without any defence when we lose our gun. In real life this is where fight or flight kicks in... give us the option to fight, or flight for the guys who would rather try to run away and cower behind a box.

 

[Reise]

Either that or give us knives instead of bare fists. There have been a few times I remember fumbling for my weapon after it got shot out of my hands and wishing I could charge the guy.

And I wouldn't worry about people running around with knives only. Unarmed soldiers in Ro aren't agile enough to pose a threat unless they're 3 feet infront of you.

And if they are you have crappy aim and/or bad battle sense.

 

[Mormegil]

Rez,

I'm in agreement with you that this game doesn't need fisticuffs.

But I'm in disagreement with you about being dead from 6 feet away from you with a rifle needing bolting.

6 feet means 3-4 feet to grab the end of the rifle and deflect the point it away from me, and get within it's firing arc. As we know, grabbing isn't implemented in RO, but I'd rather see that than punching.



Note: My martial arts instructor (Dan Inosanto) in a "draw" situation training cops bests a cop with a holstered gun from 10 feet away with a holstered butterfly knife (balisong). Admittadly, most people aren't that fast, but 6 feet really isn't much distance, especially if you need to bolt. I can easily cover that in less than a quarter of a second*.


*It also helps in my training, that we immediately grab the opponents weapon if we're dissarmed.

 

[Berentzen]

stroke mustnt be, but knifes and shovels.

 

[Uber_Noob]

If your weapon has been shot out of your hands, doesn't that mean you have been shot IN THE HAND? Or is it a dukes of hazzard style "no one gets hurt" shot that only hit the rifle?

just curious.

 

[Reise]

It's one of those bullet-hitting-weapon type deals. Only this one is damaging enough to rattle the ammo out of your belt.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

It's one of those bullet-hitting-weapon type deals. Only this one is damaging enough to rattle the ammo out of your belt.

lol its not only the rifle that gets hit. ive been hit in my hands and lost my rifle because of that, and i can know because the paperdoll had a red hand and i left a bloodtrail to follow from it but also ive been hit ON the rifle with no bleeding hands. i think its both possible

 

[Git R Done]

I'd like to see some sort of unarmed melee combat. I guess fist fighting would be best.

Remember, you also have to account for adrenaline. After running 100m and jumping into a trench, dodging bullets, I'm pretty sure any soldier would have their blood pumping to the point that if they were to lose their weapon, they would lunge at their opponent in a desperate act of self preservation. Fist-fighting could be the interpretation of that desperate act of self preservation.

That, or shovels/spades.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

I'd like to see some sort of unarmed melee combat. I guess fist fighting would be best.

Remember, you also have to account for adrenaline. After running 100m and jumping into a trench, dodging bullets, I'm pretty sure any soldier would have their blood pumping to the point that if they were to lose their weapon, they would lunge at their opponent in a desperate act of self preservation. Fist-fighting could be the interpretation of that desperate act of self preservation.

That, or shovels/spades.

or helmets nothing like a blunt item to punch someone to death with or unfixed bayonets that you would still have on you (riflemen)

 

[stebbs]

I think we're talking about a very limited situation with possible serious consequences to regular gameplay if this is implemented. How many players would purposely drop their weapons so that they could run around punching the enemy just for the satisfaction? I bet more than anyone would like. As it is the bayos were nerfed from the mod (probably because so many people used that tactic instead of shooting them, but I'm just guessing here).

The change to to the game would be immense, believe me. Anyone see the DOD players who run around with their spades instead of weapons hacking people with them? I thought we played this game because it is not as gamey as the other titles out there and more historically accurate.

The weapons and tactics we have are becasue they were used by a large amount of soldiers, not because it probably happened. I'm sure that many WWII soldiers were trained in hand to hand combat, but let's face it, a rifle is more effective than a punch to the noggin any day of the week, so that's what the game is and should be designed around IMO.

Look, it's a good idea in theory, but i think it would change the game too much to be considered a benefit for everyone. I'm just thinking of the consequences.

 

[REZ]

Morm,

Two soldiers trained in hand-to-hand, one with a weapon, whether a bullet is in the chamber or not, I'd say the advantage goes to the guy with the weapon, especially since his feet arent glued to the floor. 6 feet is plenty of space to control an unarmed opponent, but now we are getting into specifics of fighting skills.

To everyone else, it's gamey at best... you wait till 1337 kid 5000 comes in with his friends and has them bayo the weapon out of his hand and then goes on a knock out spree right through the middle of the battlefield. I myself can zig-zag right past most peoples rifle shots to get a bayo stab, so be prepared for some guy to come running from a 100 yards away only to punch you out.

You know you will see that stuff. DoD had the spades, which to me was totally lame, and now completely un-original, you had people running into battle with spade out trying to whack guys... is that the kind of gameplay you want to see? Ya, its easy to sit there and say, 'well, they'd be easy to shoot', but thats not completely true, nor is it the main issue.

If its me and my weapon gets shot out of my hand, and I'm able to run away safely, hell yeah thats what I'm gonna do, then I'm gonna find a friendly and follow him till either he dies or he kills an enemy, and then take whatever gun is available, given that its safe to do so. I certainly wouldnt throw myself in harms way trying to get close to someone with a gun so I can 'punch' them... heh

The situation in which a 'punch' would even be a viable option is sooo rare, that if I were a developer, and had to have my art team come up with the animations for it, and then code it into game... nahh, I wouldnt say its needed.

However, thats what this section is for, to get out ideas so the devs can see what some people want, and dont want, so who knows, they might think this a good idea, and we may see it down the road.

 

[Mormegil]

Rez,

6 foot unarmed vs. unchambered rifle, I'd say little better than 50/50 I could grab the end of the rifle before my opponent could get the shot off.

Throw in a bayo, and the odds change.


Now if we're talking knife / spade, that's silly. An armed opponent could easily rechamber and fire before you could get that knife or spade out for melee attack. The only viable option for this range is to run behind something or rush your opponent and grab his rifle.


Note, when I say grab, I don't mean necessarily grab and take, but merely grab and hold/struggle so they can't point it directly at you and fire.



So utlimately, what would be nice if TW had all the time in the world would be to have 2 possibilities:

1) Grab / grapple for weapon like on the CoD video. So immediately after your weapon is shot out of your hand, you're stuck with empty hands in front of you. While in this "mode" you can grab you're opponent's gun. Ideally rifles would be easiest to grab, SMG harder, and grenades and pistols practically impossible. It would also be nice if when in this mode, it's easier to pick up weapons on the ground. To switch to another weapon you're carrying, like grenade or pistol (or knife), you need to roll the mouse wheel.

2) Pull out knife / spade - but this can't be instantaenous. Again, You'll have to roll your mouse button to get out of empty hand mode.


I think this would be realistic, and wouldn't be as silly as going around punching people. I'd actually prefer a knife, as it's not a silly looking as running around with the spade.