Level Design [Preview] RO-Berezina
- Thread starter Slyk
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First alpha run with anyone other than Lex or myself on the map went pretty well considering the state of things. Found only one real objective issue which was fixed. Spawn logic for my vehicles is goofy but by 12:00 am I figured that out. Just need to fix those and clean up a couple miscellaneous floaties and we're good to go for alpha .02!
Also planning to increase the 2nd Defense Line South trench system. Thinking of going more in depth and adding some bunker rooms under the ground... possibly even doing tunnel exits to the village side to give infantry a less exposed route to get past that ridge line. Probably 3 exits to lessen camping. It worked in my CoD maps so it should be good here. Not to mention it will give the SMG crowd some specialty work!
Also planning to increase the 2nd Defense Line South trench system. Thinking of going more in depth and adding some bunker rooms under the ground... possibly even doing tunnel exits to the village side to give infantry a less exposed route to get past that ridge line. Probably 3 exits to lessen camping. It worked in my CoD maps so it should be good here. Not to mention it will give the SMG crowd some specialty work!
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Im really interested to see how this turns out, might i add thanks afterhourz we're really lucky to have you guys mapping for us cod2's loss is our gain, professional looking maps that look good and play well.
One more thing is there any chance you'd be able to get moddler to do a russian halftrack the clown car given the size of the map would ruin it and give a big advantage to russians.
One more thing is there any chance you'd be able to get moddler to do a russian halftrack the clown car given the size of the map would ruin it and give a big advantage to russians.
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thought
thought
On the defense line, I read once that the Russians would prepare positions forward of their main line with the firing position looking back to their line. So the position is concealed from the advance of the enemy and they move past it and the position opens on them from behind. You might want to add of few of these bypass positions in your defensive system.
I use to play your map on CoD UO and really enjoyed it. It is what first got me to look for something better than the normal CoD run and gun maps and led me to Red Orchestra.
Looking forward to playing your map.
thought
Slyk said:
On the defense line, I read once that the Russians would prepare positions forward of their main line with the firing position looking back to their line. So the position is concealed from the advance of the enemy and they move past it and the position opens on them from behind. You might want to add of few of these bypass positions in your defensive system.
I use to play your map on CoD UO and really enjoyed it. It is what first got me to look for something better than the normal CoD run and gun maps and led me to Red Orchestra.
Looking forward to playing your map.
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Thanks for the recent comments and shameless plugs (Lex) 
.
To address a few questions:
- No on the destructible bridges. The first bridge is a bottleneck for vehicles in that area and serves a good purpose that if either team, in theory, wanted to have free movement in the area they would not blow it. The river bridge would be same case although the Russians would blow it as a last ditch effort although many rivers in Russia could be forded at multiple crossings in mid-summer or easily bridged if too deep. The German engineers/pioneers could throw a bridge over a river this size in hours.
- Defensive lines (passive ones). 'Eh'. Not so much. Not in this scenario as with this number of players and scale of map, it wouldn't really work out. Your best bet is to get into a position and fire as fast as possible to inflict whatever damage you can before being overrun.
What I hope will make for an interesting choice is the 'flanking' option built into the objectives. Do the Germans want to risk a head-on attack on the 2nd Lines south sector vs a hard left push to take the village from the north? Can they both hold the farm and flank? Or is it faster to give up the blood and storm the lines for the overall shorter route? When do you use arty? Only to clear trench lines or sit on it for the end? I think this map will offer more choices for local tactics and overall strategy than anything else out there at the moment (to the best of my knowledge). The fighting should be localized a lot more than you might think, with the emphasis being on infantry actually doing the taking and holding. Limited active tanks and limited spawn of them will make your vehicles a premium to be guarded rather than used as assault guns charging into the fray. I dare hope to see infantry flanking their tanks as the move toward objectives with arty raining down on the position they are about to assault.
Epic.
That is what I am shooting for.
.To address a few questions:
- No on the destructible bridges. The first bridge is a bottleneck for vehicles in that area and serves a good purpose that if either team, in theory, wanted to have free movement in the area they would not blow it. The river bridge would be same case although the Russians would blow it as a last ditch effort although many rivers in Russia could be forded at multiple crossings in mid-summer or easily bridged if too deep. The German engineers/pioneers could throw a bridge over a river this size in hours.
- Defensive lines (passive ones). 'Eh'. Not so much. Not in this scenario as with this number of players and scale of map, it wouldn't really work out. Your best bet is to get into a position and fire as fast as possible to inflict whatever damage you can before being overrun.
What I hope will make for an interesting choice is the 'flanking' option built into the objectives. Do the Germans want to risk a head-on attack on the 2nd Lines south sector vs a hard left push to take the village from the north? Can they both hold the farm and flank? Or is it faster to give up the blood and storm the lines for the overall shorter route? When do you use arty? Only to clear trench lines or sit on it for the end? I think this map will offer more choices for local tactics and overall strategy than anything else out there at the moment (to the best of my knowledge). The fighting should be localized a lot more than you might think, with the emphasis being on infantry actually doing the taking and holding. Limited active tanks and limited spawn of them will make your vehicles a premium to be guarded rather than used as assault guns charging into the fray. I dare hope to see infantry flanking their tanks as the move toward objectives with arty raining down on the position they are about to assault.
Epic.
That is what I am shooting for.
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I think this will do for RO what Barbarossa did for UO. Bring it into a whole new field of big tactical/Strategical maps.
Barbarossa was the one, if not the top UO map and to see it taking shape for a game like RO is just amazing. This will be one that changes the way people play RO and define how CA maps are made in the future.
Great job Slyk
Barbarossa was the one, if not the top UO map and to see it taking shape for a game like RO is just amazing. This will be one that changes the way people play RO and define how CA maps are made in the future.
Great job Slyk
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Cyion said:
I'm sure it could quite easily be converted to an Eastern Front sort of setting, just change the architecture around.
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'GA' was a cult classic from Mohaa/SH to CoDUO. I've had enough revising on that one, thanks. I don't see it working in RO. Same design theory, yes, but that map, not so much. I like having it retired to the wall under glass myself. I want to do bigger stuff now anyway.
Haven't decided on my next project but I have two candidates. Community reaction and other custom content will help determine what I do next. One is another map style similar to this, while the other is a TOTAL departure and one that I have been trying to get done in a game for nearly five years. I had it in full-release for Mohaa/AA, then upgraded it for Spearhead but ran into what became know as 'max_gamestate' errors in CoD. We never got past the Spearhead beta testing stage. I had a HUGE mock up done in CoDUO last summer waiting for CoD2 to come out and then, well, took a BIG shaft from the developer so it sits....plotted and begging to be finished... I will eventually get it done for RO and it will be massive. I think it will be broken into at least two maps that will share common middle ground. Time will tell.
Haven't decided on my next project but I have two candidates. Community reaction and other custom content will help determine what I do next. One is another map style similar to this, while the other is a TOTAL departure and one that I have been trying to get done in a game for nearly five years. I had it in full-release for Mohaa/AA, then upgraded it for Spearhead but ran into what became know as 'max_gamestate' errors in CoD. We never got past the Spearhead beta testing stage. I had a HUGE mock up done in CoDUO last summer waiting for CoD2 to come out and then, well, took a BIG shaft from the developer so it sits....plotted and begging to be finished... I will eventually get it done for RO and it will be massive. I think it will be broken into at least two maps that will share common middle ground. Time will tell.
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From what little I have seen of that 'HUGE Map in waiting', if you ever finish that, in however many pcs/maps, it will be INCREDIBLE!!!
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Very impressive looking setup. Just wondering, what are the reinforcement levels / intervals going to be to for both sides?Slyk said:Wow! Bottom of page 2... BUMP! Shameless one at that.
Finally have my objectives working properly. A couple more tweaks to get just the right special tricks but looking cool. THANKS to Dingbat for a little commentary that helped a lot, I appreciate that.
I now have two flank options for the German attack. Looking at the image below, you can see that when the Germans capture the '1st Line' objective, the 'Bridge' and 'Farm' will activate. From the '1st Line', the Germans can now go left (north of map) or right (south) to drive on 'Berezinov Village'. As an example, if the Germans go left (north), they capture the 'Bridge', then '2nd Line North' and then the 'North Farm'. From here they can hook south to capture the village. Upon completing that capture, the 'Farm' and '2nd Line South' will lock out. Any Russians 'trapped' between the '1st Line' and 'Village' are hung out to dry... no hope of reinforcements and Germans on two, if not three sides!
The same effect will essentially work from the South route. Moral: DEFEND your butts off and if your other flank is collapsing, best to save lives and turn tail and head for the river. This should open a wealth of strategic options for players and for those serious about tactics/strategy, I hope they enjoy the multitude of options. It's complicated, but not. If you think about it.
Below is a screenshot of the overhead map with the 'alpha' testing data. I will clean up and polish this as testing moves to Beta...which could be within the week/10 days for Beta1.
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If you have problems with edgy sides of the river, try to flip the sides in the terrain segments. It can be done by clicking on them with the appropriate tool in the terrain tools.
This map overview looks huge! I hope my pc can run this map because it looks fantasic!
This map overview looks huge! I hope my pc can run this map because it looks fantasic!
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T_a_t_r_o_ks?Slyk said:, while the other is a TOTAL departure and one that I have been trying to get done in a game for nearly five years. I had it in full-release for Mohaa/AA, then upgraded it for Spearhead but ran into what became know as 'max_gamestate' errors in CoD. We never got past the Spearhead beta testing stage. I had a HUGE mock up done in CoDUO last summer waiting for CoD2 to come out and then, well, took a BIG shaft from the developer so it sits....plotted and begging to be finished... I will eventually get it done for RO and it will be massive. I think it will be broken into at least two maps that will share common middle ground. Time will tell.
Sweet! I loved that map! I never knew what happened to it after SH.
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Reinforcments: Will be starting the testing process with around 200 - 120 ish in favor of the Germans. :15 seconds on German respawn to maintain pressure and about :20 or :22 for the Russians to keep the fighting intense but encourage the Russian players to be a bit more cautious/smart about wasting lives.
Murphy: I will try to turn the edges, haven't tried that trick yet but would really help in some spots.
Arro: Ssssssshhhhh. Performance was always an issue in that map idea, regardless. It was my favorite SH map. The natural layout of the place should work well in RO though so I am actually looking forward to it. I will probably start the prelim work after 'Berezina' goes into Beta1. There are a ton of measurements to do and place.
Murphy: I will try to turn the edges, haven't tried that trick yet but would really help in some spots.
Arro: Ssssssshhhhh.
Performance was always an issue in that map idea, regardless. It was my favorite SH map. The natural layout of the place should work well in RO though so I am actually looking forward to it. I will probably start the prelim work after 'Berezina' goes into Beta1. There are a ton of measurements to do and place.
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