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Diving to Prone and IS

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#41
Ah, so this is why people have been diving to prone at ridiculously short ranges before they shoot at me.

Usually I can manage to get out of the way and put a grenade next to them to teach them that prone is not always a good idea. If I'm shooting well that day, I can usually show them that hipshots are faster and more effective than their "tactic".

I do hope this gets fixed, though. It's rather ridiculous that anyone would instantly drop to the ground with no cover when facing an enemy at such close ranges.
 
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#45
I see what you are saying in that it appears as though he instantly goes into ironsights, but I also see that you still have to aim at the guy, as choppy as the video is. The first three times you do it, the enemy is right in front of you at practically no distance... hell I could line up and hit anything from that distance whether its in prone, crouching, standing, or hipshooting.

He certainly doesnt have it up to his eyes in mid air and aiming while in mid air.

Alot of guys can line up a hipshot at those distances... is that a bug? I also dont see how this is any different than crouching and bringing up ironsights super fast and popping off a shot.

A simple strafe move nullifies this diving shooting thing in game for me, which usually sets up for a nice stab maneuver :D .

I dont see it as a bug, but maybe the devs could add a half second hard sway just to appease these guys.... I dont think it would matter in the long run. Thats my opinion.


edit = spelling error.
 
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#46
What I've proven is that you can shoot as soon as you hit the dirt. The point i'm making is it's unrealistic and more than likely a bug because you don't get the same effect when going prone without momentum. People are trying to make out that its realistic and its NOT, but the other player movements are designed to be as realistic as possible.

I don't personally use it because i'd rather hip shot at close range or stab because of the slow down you get when getting up from prone. At long range though it makes standing/crouching something to avoid if you are away from cover. And yes its all one motion pretty much, I know where to aim as I start the dive.

Also it's very effective if you're an SMG that doesn't like recoil, especially if you land in a resting position.

What i'm saying is, you get no sway, increased accuracy, are a smaller target and all as fast as it takes to dive to prone. BUT is the slow down getting up (which is minimal) enough to balance it against other stances?

Anyway we don't need to be "appeased" we're simply discussing it.
 
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#47
A simple strafe move nullifies this diving shooting thing in game for me, which usually sets up for a nice stab maneuver :D .
Click to expand...

But, you've said you never encountered this :confused:

It isn't too hard to line up your shot, and if the person has the advantage of killing you before you can get a shot off, why not dive and IS. If you line up your gun right you should be pretty much right on the guy anyway so when you hit the ground the IS will be on him or very close and you can take a shot almost instantly. I usually do the strafe when someone does this to me, but when he has an smg and you have a rifle, you are pretty much fubared.
 
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#50
No, no, no... I meant that I've never been able to recreate flying through the air in IS and being able to aim mid-air... also, I believe I said when I see people diving to prone in game, their ironsights dont come up till they hit the ground. Then you said the animation doesnt actually show it, but it's happening.
Strother said:
You never notice it because the animation of him bring up the rifle won't play while he is in the diving animation.
Click to expand...


Like I said, when I try to do it, he waits till he lands and then the IS comes up. To me the video is inconclusive, because he's playing bots, and he's right next to them... how could you miss? One of my other points is, that at any sort of distance, with a competent enemy, you still have to aim AFTER you hit the ground... there is no mid-air aiming, and it certainly doesnt offer you any sort of advantage unless they are standing completely still.

Yes, you can bring up the ironsights quickly after hitting the ground... so maybe a half second hard sway is what some people want to see... I just wonder how gameplay would be effected in that case. You probably wouldnt ever see anybody hitting the dirt and trying to take a prone shot because of the slight penalty for doing so would mean sure death with how good most riflemen/snipers are.

In any case, I'm sure the devs have read this thread by now and are aware of the concerns, so if they in fact consider it an issue, you can be rest assured that they will take the necessary steps to change it.
 
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#51
If you watch the slow-mo near the end you can blatently see the Iron Site coming up on the way down. As he lands the IS is up so you can shoot straight away. Personally i wouldn't shoot straight away with a rifle so that I can fine tune the aim (if the nme isn't aware of my position), but as an SMG you can start spraying as soon as you finish the dive animation. I'll do another video with SMG's against real people when I get the chance. Problem is I get v low FPS when recording so this will probably hamper the SMG's recoil because of the recoil bug. I'll try lower res and do some testing maybe tomorrow
 
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#53
I'm not against anything in this thread... I just dont see any bugs or exploits at all with how diving and IS works. None at all. Like I said before, if the devs think there is a problem with it and they want to add extra sway to your aim after you've made your dive to the ground, or whatever else they might see fit, it wouldnt effect me or my game at all. I would continue with my daily prawnage as it were.

Can you not accept that I dont agree, and I'm letting it be known? Cause if thats the case, tough titties :cool:
 
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#54
seems to not be a bug, just an only half thought out feature.
You have to be moving ahead and dive to prone to do it, and it doesnt rob accuracy at all except for if you were running of course. In fact since your supported it is way MORE accurate then if you simply took the rifle to your shoulder.
Works just as well for the sniper rifles. At way longer ranges. With a few minutes practice I could hit street lamps dead center with a scoped G43 from a trot to prone quicker then I could have stoped and hit them from teh shoulder.
With this the devs are absolutly encouraging a correct fire and movement kind of combat. We could argue all day if it is realistic or not for iron sights. I have would certainly say that you can drop to your knees and then to the prone and have an assault rifle ready to shoot a guy a few feet away. But a rifle with a scope? how would that work, you would take a bleeding head wound every time you tried it.

Lighter weapons seem way better at this then heavier ones. I suspect with a K98 scoped it would be a fantastic tactic if you were facing one guy.

Anyway. Its all over the servers now, all the best guys do it nearly every time at nearly all ranges. Why not.
 
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#55
Pongo said:
Anyway. Its all over the servers now, all the best guys do it nearly every time at nearly all ranges. Why not.
Click to expand...
Because its not realistic. You're able to track your target while falling and pop off a perfect shot (via IS) the instant you hit the ground. This is a realism game, not BF2 (and heck, even BF2 patched out a similar "tactic").
 
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#56
REZ, even if you can't reproduce it you might consider taking the word of several people here that they are able to do it. I have pulled it off a few times as well.

Why is it a problem?

If two players are sprinting towards each other, spot each other at the same time, and try to fire, here's what happens.

Time 1: Player A lets go of move keys. He starts to decelerate.
Player B hits dive and IS keys. He starts to fall to the ground and his IS comes up.

Time 2: Player A is now stationary and can hit IS. His IS starts to come up.
Player B lands in IS and starts to aim.

Time 3: Player A's IS are almost up.
Player B fires.

Time 4: Player A's IS are now up and he can start to aim (if he's still alive).
Player B works the bolt.

Time 5: Player A fires.
Player B fires again.

It really doesn't matter whether Player B hits player A or not. The point is, he can carry out two actions at once (dive and IS) while the other guy has to carry out his actions in sequence (stop THEN go to IS). This is an exploit on the part of the diving player. He basically dives and gets two prone shots in the time it takes the other guy to just stop and fire once.

Regards
33
 
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#57
To me the video is inconclusive, because he's playing bots, and he's right next to them... how could you miss?
Click to expand...

I must be a bot since this exploit has been used on me. And not everyone who uses it is a riflemen, some are smgs, and since they can hit the ground (which reduces their target size) and they bring up their Ironsights instantly your only chance is to hipshoot him. You CAN'T bring your ironsights up faster than the diver, and if he has an smg, he isn't likely to miss.

One of my other points is, that at any sort of distance, with a competent enemy, you still have to aim AFTER you hit the ground
Click to expand...

This isn't a distance shooting tactic. It is almost exclusively used at point blank on near point blank range as seen in the video, which reduces the chances of missing. Most of the time this is used is when someone gets suprised at close ranges and it is a race to see who gets their iron sights up faster. But instead of doing the race, they dive sight and unrealistically get an instant advantage over you. That to me is an exploit, probably not a bug, but it is at least an exploit.
 
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#60
Diving and IS

Diving and IS

Very surprised to see no comments from the dev's on this one. I am not sure if this is a bug though or just something that has been overlooked. I would have thought the beta testers would have spotted it straight away.

No comments from anyone about the ablility to crawl while in IS which I know is a little thing but I dont like it or the fact you can reload while crawling.

Comments Ramm ?

Ta

Chi
 
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