Wow I just got done pratcing on a custom map with the panzerfaust and wtf how can the thing go right through is2 and t34 armor from the front in one shot and destroy it! that thing is incredably overpowered. Maybe one shot to the amno storage or two for the engine. Just look at the ptrd you have to be prone and hit the amno storage right on for a one hit kill the panzerfaust can kill the most heavly armored tank from the front in one hit even a tiger 1 cant do that! I highly doubt that this is correct or else in ww2 you wouldent need tanks to kill other tanks just one shot them all with the panzerfaust! What bs I think this needs to be looked at right away.
The hugly overpowered panzerfaust
- Thread starter Phantom2828
- Start date
Well ingame the ptrd is way overpowered because the most penetration it should be doing is 40mm, I don;t think it should be going through the front plate of the is2 though. It could penetrate the front of the t-34 though, that's accurate.
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Right through the front plate of a t34 no way I dont even think a panzer could do that in one shot. Panzerfaust is bs.Dheepan said:
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Hate to burst your bubble, but the panzerfaust could penetrate 200mm of armor. It was the single most feared weapon in bocage, urban or brushy terrain that Allied armor faced. Late war versions had a range of 150 meters to make that threat even worse.
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Yeah, seriously, the Panzerfaust was an excellent anti-tank weapon--made even more so by the fact that is was cheap and made by the million.
Basically, the Panzerfaust melts and forms a superheated cone of metal once it's fired and it will melt a hole through the armor of a tank. Of course, I'm a bit rusty on my Panzerfaust facts.
Basically, the Panzerfaust melts and forms a superheated cone of metal once it's fired and it will melt a hole through the armor of a tank. Of course, I'm a bit rusty on my Panzerfaust facts.
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I thought that the Panzerfuast penetrated 300mm, but I'm not sure, I havent looked it up in a while.
Since there still seems to be some misconception on Shaped charges, Im gonna repost my repost that was a repost of a post that I made on shaped charges.
"Alright, alright, Im gonna have to clear some things up. The information yall are describing about HEAT warheads is completely wrong. HEAT rounds dont direct the explosions in one direction, in fact, thats about as extreme from the truth as you can get. Before I explain what HEAT rounds actually do, let me explain about the explosive properties. HEAT rounds are still HE. The explosion goes in all directions. The reason for not being the best at anti- personal is because the HEAT casings arent designed to fragment properely. An example of the comparison would be a hand grenade and a pipe bomb with out shrapnel (nuts bolts etc.) loaded inside. The hand grenede is designed to fragment, hence it kills people with shrapnel. The pipe bomb, although the casing is metal, blows up, sending reletively little shrapnel into the air (in comparison to the hand grenade). The pipe bomb, just like the HEAT round, still has as much EXPLOSIVE power as the hand grenade.
So the point of this part of my explanation is, yes, AT weapons (bazooka, Panzerschreck, etc.) can effectively be used against light fortifications (earth bunkers, wooden bunkers, buildings, light structures, etc.). In fact, the old U.S. LAW weapon was used in vietnam as an anti-bunker weapon, as well as the modern U.S. AT4 is used against structures in Iraq as well as caves and the like in Afghanistan.
Now onto the AT properties of HEAT weapons. Im gonna draw some pictures but Im going to show what really happens, as well as the different properties of the different shapes. Here we go.
http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heat9su.png
http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heat26ef.png
Ok, Heres what the first picture shows (Ill explain 2 and 3 later)
1 is the explosive filler
2 is the metal liner
3 is the Standoff fuse
The Second picture shows how the metal liner collapses and the direction of FORCES (Ill explain this later too) (This picture doesnt matter anymore)
And the Third picture shows the penetration of the liner for the different liner shapes. (this is now the second picture)
From top to bottom then far right
- Self forging fragment charge
- the Schardin Charge
- P charge
- Hollow Charge
Ok, now for the explanations.
A HEAT (hollow charge) round, is essentially a cylinder of HE, with the front of the explosive shaped conically inward. In this cavity is a conical metal liner, fitted very tightly. At the end is the standoff fuse (explained later). The HE is detonated in the rear of the explosive, creating a high-pressure shockwave that heads to the front of the round reaching the thin tip of the liner first at speeds of about 8000 m/s. As the shockwave passes over the liner, it forces it to collapse, starting at the narrow tip. The walls of the liner slam against each other, creating pressures so far above the yeild strenght of the liner material that the metal flows in a fluid fashion, even though the temperature is below the melting point of the material. So now a long jet of liner shoots forward through the open end of the cone. This jet is moving so quickly (around 10000 m/s) that if forces the armor to flow to the sides of the stream, opening a long narrow crater in the path of the jet. So it doesnt actually "burn" a hole in the armor, but actually forces it aside.
The tips of these jets erode as they penetrate deeper, meaning the get shorter as the pass through armor, so the length of the jet determines how far it can penetrate. Now this is where the standoff fuse comes into play. This is also the trickiest part. The tip of this jet moves thousands of meters a second faster than its base, so the jet stretches as it moves forward, and will eventually break up into a series of particles. The deepest penetration occurs when the jet has time and space to stretch out as long as possible withouth breaking apart. So the standoff fuse sets the round off at a distance where maximum penetration can be achieved (most efficient jet). The standoff is measured in cone diameters (CD). The optimum Ci is around 4 to 7. CD can be determined by dividing standoff by diameter, so an 80mm HEAT shell has a standoff of 160mm means that (160/80 = 2) it has a CD of 2. Realizing this means realizing that its nearly impossible to build an optimal standoff into large warheads, so sometimes small liners can outperform large liners because of the ability to have a better standoff.
Now heres where the shape of the liner comes into play. The Thinner/longer the stream (check picture three) the greater the penetration, but the worse the behind-armor effects, where as the Broader/shorter the stream the worse the penetration but the greater the behind-armor effects.
There are other factors as well, like adding certain materials to the explosive to shape the wave for better collapsing of the liner, as well as quality of manufacture of the liner and its alloy and thickness.
Well, thats basically everything you would ever want to know about Shaped charges (Hollow charge, HEAT round, whatever). This should also clear up some misconceptions about possible uses for AT weapons (refering back to the first paragraph)."
Since there still seems to be some misconception on Shaped charges, Im gonna repost my repost that was a repost of a post that I made on shaped charges.
"Alright, alright, Im gonna have to clear some things up. The information yall are describing about HEAT warheads is completely wrong. HEAT rounds dont direct the explosions in one direction, in fact, thats about as extreme from the truth as you can get. Before I explain what HEAT rounds actually do, let me explain about the explosive properties. HEAT rounds are still HE. The explosion goes in all directions. The reason for not being the best at anti- personal is because the HEAT casings arent designed to fragment properely. An example of the comparison would be a hand grenade and a pipe bomb with out shrapnel (nuts bolts etc.) loaded inside. The hand grenede is designed to fragment, hence it kills people with shrapnel. The pipe bomb, although the casing is metal, blows up, sending reletively little shrapnel into the air (in comparison to the hand grenade). The pipe bomb, just like the HEAT round, still has as much EXPLOSIVE power as the hand grenade.
So the point of this part of my explanation is, yes, AT weapons (bazooka, Panzerschreck, etc.) can effectively be used against light fortifications (earth bunkers, wooden bunkers, buildings, light structures, etc.). In fact, the old U.S. LAW weapon was used in vietnam as an anti-bunker weapon, as well as the modern U.S. AT4 is used against structures in Iraq as well as caves and the like in Afghanistan.
Now onto the AT properties of HEAT weapons. Im gonna draw some pictures but Im going to show what really happens, as well as the different properties of the different shapes. Here we go.
http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heat9su.png
http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heat26ef.png
Ok, Heres what the first picture shows (Ill explain 2 and 3 later)
1 is the explosive filler
2 is the metal liner
3 is the Standoff fuse
The Second picture shows how the metal liner collapses and the direction of FORCES (Ill explain this later too) (This picture doesnt matter anymore)
And the Third picture shows the penetration of the liner for the different liner shapes. (this is now the second picture)
From top to bottom then far right
- Self forging fragment charge
- the Schardin Charge
- P charge
- Hollow Charge
Ok, now for the explanations.
A HEAT (hollow charge) round, is essentially a cylinder of HE, with the front of the explosive shaped conically inward. In this cavity is a conical metal liner, fitted very tightly. At the end is the standoff fuse (explained later). The HE is detonated in the rear of the explosive, creating a high-pressure shockwave that heads to the front of the round reaching the thin tip of the liner first at speeds of about 8000 m/s. As the shockwave passes over the liner, it forces it to collapse, starting at the narrow tip. The walls of the liner slam against each other, creating pressures so far above the yeild strenght of the liner material that the metal flows in a fluid fashion, even though the temperature is below the melting point of the material. So now a long jet of liner shoots forward through the open end of the cone. This jet is moving so quickly (around 10000 m/s) that if forces the armor to flow to the sides of the stream, opening a long narrow crater in the path of the jet. So it doesnt actually "burn" a hole in the armor, but actually forces it aside.
The tips of these jets erode as they penetrate deeper, meaning the get shorter as the pass through armor, so the length of the jet determines how far it can penetrate. Now this is where the standoff fuse comes into play. This is also the trickiest part. The tip of this jet moves thousands of meters a second faster than its base, so the jet stretches as it moves forward, and will eventually break up into a series of particles. The deepest penetration occurs when the jet has time and space to stretch out as long as possible withouth breaking apart. So the standoff fuse sets the round off at a distance where maximum penetration can be achieved (most efficient jet). The standoff is measured in cone diameters (CD). The optimum Ci is around 4 to 7. CD can be determined by dividing standoff by diameter, so an 80mm HEAT shell has a standoff of 160mm means that (160/80 = 2) it has a CD of 2. Realizing this means realizing that its nearly impossible to build an optimal standoff into large warheads, so sometimes small liners can outperform large liners because of the ability to have a better standoff.
Now heres where the shape of the liner comes into play. The Thinner/longer the stream (check picture three) the greater the penetration, but the worse the behind-armor effects, where as the Broader/shorter the stream the worse the penetration but the greater the behind-armor effects.
There are other factors as well, like adding certain materials to the explosive to shape the wave for better collapsing of the liner, as well as quality of manufacture of the liner and its alloy and thickness.
Well, thats basically everything you would ever want to know about Shaped charges (Hollow charge, HEAT round, whatever). This should also clear up some misconceptions about possible uses for AT weapons (refering back to the first paragraph)."
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only thing wrong with it now in the game is its too easy to get. it shouldnt be scattered around everywhere. kinda dumb that the anti tank class can go to a ammo depot in some town they are trying to take and still restock on ammo over and over again. Not to mention you wouldnt see someone running around with 3 of these things. they dont exactly fit in your pocket. Shouldnt be random boxes of them laying around everywhere.
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Phantom2828 said:
Yes Way...
Man, do you even know how a panzerfaust works?[CoFR]BooBoo said:
Agreed. It doesn't operate like an AP shell. There were various versions, and even the weakest was quite powerful.
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Hi all
I dont want to sound rude or so to anyone or any age. But please, you have the whole internet of info to check up facts. Even a libery in every town and city. It's absolute no wrong to write it up here, it's even better as you can see there are now plenty of good m8's typing it up for you in great and nice manners and now we have a great subject to speak about
Yes we have a game, we are in a game it will always be hard and diffiuclt to make it real or even uber real that even the fanaticals wants it *smiles*
Atleast TW staffs struggling with this everyday at the same time ballance it a tiny little drop as it needs to be fun too. Still atleast i and probly most of us havent seen anything that is easy in the game or to arcade action orentated like others game? And that is what this realism game are " Uniq" and most of us would probly ripp up walls if it becomes to easy or to arcade and take of the realism simulations we hold on to so much with love
Lets sitt back read and learn and the wise once will continue to drop in with nice facts so we can all learn and accept the rules in RO.
And we all, we wiat to see how close RO can become as real as history was, even so it's just a computer game? My all faith goes with TW staff that they struggle all hard to make it as real as possibli and above fun with all the facts that we have to accept and re learn from start that it was like this more or less in those old times.
And nothing is easy in any age of warfare years, we just need to start to crawl before we can run around with lots of joy and in the end of weekend buy lots of good beers hick!
I think i have wroth my self over the hill as i just woke up and typ and think alot Think i should stop and thank you all for the time.
Cya on the fields Ladies and gentleman.
BR A N.
I dont want to sound rude or so to anyone or any age. But please, you have the whole internet of info to check up facts. Even a libery in every town and city. It's absolute no wrong to write it up here, it's even better as you can see there are now plenty of good m8's typing it up for you in great and nice manners and now we have a great subject to speak about
Yes we have a game, we are in a game it will always be hard and diffiuclt to make it real or even uber real that even the fanaticals wants it *smiles*
Atleast TW staffs struggling with this everyday at the same time ballance it a tiny little drop as it needs to be fun too. Still atleast i and probly most of us havent seen anything that is easy in the game or to arcade action orentated like others game? And that is what this realism game are " Uniq" and most of us would probly ripp up walls if it becomes to easy or to arcade and take of the realism simulations we hold on to so much with love
Lets sitt back read and learn and the wise once will continue to drop in with nice facts so we can all learn and accept the rules in RO.
And we all, we wiat to see how close RO can become as real as history was, even so it's just a computer game? My all faith goes with TW staff that they struggle all hard to make it as real as possibli and above fun with all the facts that we have to accept and re learn from start that it was like this more or less in those old times.
And nothing is easy in any age of warfare years, we just need to start to crawl before we can run around with lots of joy and in the end of weekend buy lots of good beers hick!
I think i have wroth my self over the hill as i just woke up and typ and think alot
Think i should stop and thank you all for the time.Cya on the fields Ladies and gentleman.
BR A N.
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list
list
in the german wikipedia is a list of penetrating power:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust
list
in the german wikipedia is a list of penetrating power:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerfaust
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Yeah. The original faustpatrone was especially prone to deflecting, so they changed the warhead shape to reduce the chance of it deflecting. The first faust had a more pointed nose, unlike the later blunt nose on the panzerfaust 60 we have.EvilHobo said:
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