Level Design KurlandKessel poll

[[5.SS]Strother]

What do you guys think of Kurland Kessel, is it better than snowy forest or worse?

I just played it for 2 rounds and I think its a major step backwards in comparison to snowy forest. It just doesn't flow the same way and it just doesn't feel right. Snowyforest might not have been 100% historically accurate but I think it was more fun than kurlandkessel. In my opinion I think you listened to the community to much and you lost your path. The map layout feels really different, and the moved up barbed wire isn't anything special at all. I couldn't even see the russians as they blew the fencing, they blow it before you even have time to prepare yourself. I liked where the fence was in the old snowyforest. Also I've noticed a lot more artillery is being used and now it reminds me of a snowy basovka. Thats my opinion, and I"m rather displeased that this map has degraded into what it has. We sacraficed fun and gameplay for nitpicking realism.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I think KurlandKessel is a big improvement on Snowy Forest for many reasons, but everyone should have their own opinion.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

I think the fence is not right at all. It has premade gaps in it so the germans can get out....what kind of defensive fence leaves large gaps.....also the firing lanes at the fence arn't clear, there are PILES OF FIREWOOD stacked up at the fence. Surely no defensive team would put a big pile of firewood right in front of fencing.

Also, what is with the fallen trees at the craters/foxholes? Are they to create a wooden bunker type thing? If so why don't you use smaller logs and some bushes, as of right now the leaves and pineneedles of the trees stand pretty tall and it obstructs firing lanes. Any german commander would make sure those tree limbs were cut off so his men could actually see.

 

[The Soup Nazi]

I consider the two different maps. In Snowy Forest, its a very hard fight for both sides. For Kurland, it all depends on the execution of the Russian team. Me playing on the German team and being a crackshot with bolt action rifles, it becomes a turkey shoot especially with the aid of cover and log-rests. On the Russian team, you either don't cap the first objective, or you make a mad blitz for the win.

The first scenario involves little coordination, where the Russians get gunned down in a fashion similar to Enemy at the Gates. The second scenario involves the same thing, but with a sizable force of Russians attacking the flanks and capping very quickly. This map relies on the team's best marksmen to retain a foothold.

 

[FreeMan]

I think it flows much better though the fence placement is a little odd. Maybe it should be placed right before the first objective.

I feel the opposite of Soup whereas I thought Snowy was easy for the Germans.

 

[Floyd]

They play differently. Both are fun.

I'd like to run both maps.

imo, Snowy Forrest is an easier map for the attackers. Kruland Kessel requires a lot of teamwork by the attackers, but is very winnable.

 

[Novogradov]

I love both maps!

On snowy forest, why not just fix the capture point bug (where you die immediatly after the enemy has capped the area near you) and leave it at that? Other than that, I think the original was excellent and nothing had to be changed!

Kruland Kessel is very different, and just as good in a different way to SF is also good. I especially love the high amount of cover - this adds to the already worrying feeling of being shot from any angle in this forest.

 

[Cyion]

SnowyForest Beta 5 was the best. The terrain wasn't made ridiculously hilly like in the future versions.

 

[Nestor Makhno]

In my opinion I think you listened to the community to much and you lost your path.

Yeah, Tochiri-san, stop listening to what the community says - especially in this thread - and, most of all, ignore this post

 

[tochiri]

Yeah, Tochiri-san, stop listening to what the community says - especially in this thread - and, most of all, ignore this post

*7GA* Nestor Makhno-san, yeah, It does so.

 

[Drude]

Its still too pipe run, not enough space to flank totally the objectives.

 

[ButchCassidy]

I would like to see fencing before the first objective and at the axis base.
It would make the sappers work as part of the team and it would allow for some deception by setting charges in various places and keep the Germans guessing on the real entry points I think it would also offer the Axis a little more realistic protection as it would be in real ilife but that's just my opinion.

 

[Chi]

KurlandKessel

KurlandKessel

When I suggesed the change of name to Tochiri last week to Kurland or KurlandKessel, I didnt realise how many changes Tochiri had planned for his map SnowyForest. I didnt vote as I love both versions and lets face it the more maps we have the better, even if they are similar.

I would suggest to Tochiri that he keeps the maps the way HE wants them as everyone will have an opinion and he cannot please everybody. Small changes for balance and gameplay reasons are ok but the new version is a lot different to any of the original SnowyForest maps. Personaly I liked the wire in its original position and the ambiance of the Germans gathering at the other side and the rush of soldiers when the wire was blown. That is only my thoughts and I dare say there will be a lot of players who wont agree with me. Thats why the map maker has to stick with their first ideas and not change it to suit a handfull of forum posters.

Ta

Chi

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

I just think the orignal snowy forest with original terrain and wire had the most action. Bullets were flying everywhere. You saw blood all over the snow. People screaming. Grenades blowing up, people diving into craters together. People running from cover to cover. But now the action has been broken up. There are more one on one duels. There is more cover for the defense to hide behind so they just sit back and take popshots or they just nade spam since there is so much cover the grenades work better. There is also so much cover that you don't need to get with 5 people and hide behind a single hill, you are better off just running for it so you don't get sniped. There are too many hills and forests usually don't have such high mounds/hills. they need to be more of a rolling type hill. I was just expecting kurlandkessel to be bloody awesome but what I got was a totally changed product.

 

[Nimsky]

I just think the orignal snowy forest with original terrain and wire had the most action. Bullets were flying everywhere. You saw blood all over the snow. People screaming. Grenades blowing up, people diving into craters together. People running from cover to cover. But now the action has been broken up. There are more one on one duels. There is more cover for the defense to hide behind so they just sit back and take popshots or they just nade spam since there is so much cover the grenades work better. There is also so much cover that you don't need to get with 5 people and hide behind a single hill, you are better off just running for it so you don't get sniped. There are too many hills and forests usually don't have such high mounds/hills. they need to be more of a rolling type hill. I was just expecting kurlandkessel to be bloody awesome but what I got was a totally changed product.

Well, all of that is still in but with the new version all of the action happens during the FINAL phase of the map. With SnowyForest, it was chaos the entire time.

I don't see how the first versions were unreastic by the way?

Oh, another thing. Wouldn't it make more sense to make the wire the first objective for the attacker to blow up. I remember with SnowyForest, that the Germans, the defenders, had to blow up a wire before being able to defend the rest of the map. That doesn't make much sense. What does make sense is moving up the wire, slowing down the attackers. Because I assume that's why the Germans would put up a wire down the forest in the first place.

Also Tochiri, don't let this stuff demotivate you - we all just want to make an already kickass map even more kickass.

EDIT: I only played both versions just once, so in this case I'm not a very good critic.

 

[daschewy]

can someone post SS of the map?