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the stug machine gun

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#22
CaptRanger said:
Of course the dev's try to balance gameplay. They want to make the game enjoyable for everyone (and it's no fun when one side gets creamed every time). But, the dev's also try to keep things as realistic as possible.

Stug is the German equivalent of the SU-76

Mark IV is roughly the equivalent of the T-34/76 (although the 34 clearly outmatches it, which is historically accurate... basically, the Germans didn't have a good answer for the 34)

Panther matches the T-34/85 and IS2
Tiger matches the T-34/85 and IS2

The strength of the Mark IV is its speed and firepower. Same as the T-34/76. If you think they 76 drivers are doing a ton better than IV's, try hopping in one and going against a Panzer. It, like the mk IV, also relies on speed and firepower. Also notice how each side gets 2 good later war tanks.

My point is, the dev's have tried giving the historical counterpart for each tank. This is for gameplay balance and it still keeps realism. The dev's have stated several times that they will have fixes for tank penetration, so hopefully in the next patch everyone will be able to see how effective the tiger and panther are against soviet armor.
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Matching either the Tiger or the Panther against the IS2 is laughable. The IS2 outperforms both by a large margin in both armor and firepower.

As mentioned earlier, the IS2 is more of a matchup for the Royal Tiger (who is actually superior to the IS2).

What I find interesting is that there are a variety of tank-hunter vehicles used by the Germans that would be more appropriate in the "late war" maps than the PzIVF and STUGIIIF the Germans are currently required to use. The Jadpanzer and JadPanther are both VERY heavily armored (frontally) and carry decent guns.

The Nashorn would also be interesting (and easy to model), though it certainly wouldn't be very survivable until they get the "you have to shoot every tank twice" bug worked out.

The Elefant would also be nice to see modelled, since I believe it was primarily used on the Eastern Front.
 
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#23
Heinz said:
what about Bondarevo? lol, I call it Bon-da-RAPE-oh, as the tanks are so unbalanced, being a German tanker is silly.
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That's the one I was refering to.

Heinz said:
And Hedgehog, that's an early one too, right? that's the one where that war-winning titan, the T60, kills everything in sight. :D
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That takes place in 44 during operation bagration. Apparently there were still significant numbers of T60's in use.:rolleyes:
 
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#24
kabex said:
True, but I was referring to the STUG being an older model, which was incredibly rare.

It doesn't take much research to know the devs are biased towards the soviets(or at least soviet armor)

In Arad, a '44 map:
Soviets have the best tanks available(super ultra elite equipment, let's be honest), all T34's are /85 variants, even when the 85 variant had just been deployed the same year and was not so common, meanwhile the /76 was still in heavy use, also they have quite a few IS2s(3?) which weren't that common either. The IS2 is an opponent for the Tiger2, not the TigerI or Panther(balancing issue here).

Germans get 2 tigers and a panther(afaik) which is ok, but they also get a bunch of completely useless PZIV's by '44 standards, come on.

If the devs are going to balance the game, balance it even. Give the Soviets their best armor, but also to the Germans. If you're going to have all /85s then I want all Panthers. It's only fair.

I admit I prefer the Axis, but I don't want the Soviets to suffer, I want them using their best weaponry also, and in fair numbers. A bunch of PZIV's against T34/85s just isn't fair to be honest, and don't tell me the devs aren't balancing the game, they clearly are.

Why do the Soviets get access to hundreds(really, how many fausts can the Soviets access in one game?) of Panzerfausts? That is completely ridiculous, they should get absolutely no Panzerfausts just like Germans don't get any Papashas.
--

By the way, I had NO idea tariff was an unrealiable site, I'm very sorry I won't use it as reference material again, thanks for that link and any other good sources are appreciated(I don't have books, impossible to find here).
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yes you are right i only got this game for the tanks battles. PZIV's are **** in this game they need the side armor on them, and no king tigers this is stupid :mad: put these panzer PZIV's http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/download/panz_wallp2/pz4_02.jpg http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/artykuly/rysunki/panzer4_rys_bw.jpg
 
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#26
Hans_klempner said:
OFF TOPIC SRY!

Another instance where CMBB is taken as a reliable source.

It just shows how great game it is!
I absolutly love it, and its realistic.
Uhm when will RO have similar armour penetration system
:rolleyes:
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Only exception I've found is the PanzerIIJ, in one scenario it has 80mm frontal and 50mm side armor, which makes it hard on the Soviet PTRD squads. :eek:
 
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#27
Saturnalia said:
The Tiger was the match for the T-34/76, it just happened to overmatch it :p
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depends i woud say, on distance, defiently, though Tiger is not a unstopable killing machine :p



kabex said:
The IS2 is an opponent for the Tiger2, not the TigerI or Panther(balancing issue here).
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are you kidding ? Even i, with my lidle knowledge from tanks, know, that the IS2 can not realy be compared with the german tanks, not even from a balancing issue, since the Tiger, Panther and IS2 where developed and used for totally different roles ... tanks shoud not be compared just the straight way, "this has better armor, this better gun etc. Tiger rules over T34, King Tiger over IS2 etc.",, there are many heavy factors that come in to play, with all that, compare for what tanks where used on the frontline and how succesfull they have been in there tasks. And there is no doubt, that for what russian tanks where designed for (the most that where succesfull on the frontline), they have done there job quite good. The IS2 for example with main use again, enemy artilery, infantry, fortifications AND again enemy tanks, as far i know, it was never designed as a pure anti tank weapon, like the panther or tiger

and it shoud of course never forget that the best tank, is in the first place only a big peace of metal, its the 5 men (or how much ever), that decide, how dangerous the tank is.
 
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#29
It is weird how they choose to model the tanks that were barely produced. I mean I think it would look better if they changed the Panzer IV ausf F2 to the ausf G or ausf H, same with the stug it could use the version that was most commonly used. Also, I hope in the future they add the panzer III ausf F or any of the panzer III's that were armed with the 5cm L/42 cannon as that would help put the early war maps in a more historically correct perspective.
 
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#33
It's a little odd to be arguing along the lines of "which tank was the answer to which tank" - the T34 was the Soviet answer to the PZIV - does this mean that all tanks should have T34's destroying all the PZIV's in sight? Similarly, the Panther was the German answer to the T34, but again, if the Soviets get T34's and the Germans get Panthers, this is hardly fair or realistic. Instead, tanks should be included roughly by how common they are and how they match up in-game - the IS2 was about as common as the Panther, the Tiger was less common, the King Tiger very rarely saw actual combat. The percentage of the PZIV and T34 relative to the heavier tanks can adjusted to balance the two sides (same with the T34/76 to T34/85 ratio).
 
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#35
Eater1 said:
the IS2 was about as common as the Panther
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Ok, LOL. Do your research, then you can make suggestions.

The armor loadouts need to be balanced, do you have any idea how many T34/85s there were? I think like 20,000 by the end of the war. Do you have any idea how many operational "cats"(V, VI, VI-B) there were by that time? 100 at best.

We're talking 150 T34/85s versus a single Panther, or Tiger, or TigerII. Do you think that's fair? The russians get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY T34/85s AND THE GERMANS ONE TANK.

Get serious. The game needs to be balanced, the Germans were humongously outnumbered, and horribly outgunned. The game isn't going to represent that, it'd be stupid. Hey let's give the German team a single soldier and the soviets the rest of the thirty-one!!
 
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#36
I think just for kicks the devs should go off the handle and release a map that is late war and as close to proportionate numbers as possible. Make it an assault on Berlin or something. Give the german team five players (MP40 and K98 only) with a healthy amount of respawns, the Russians get the rest of the players (full arsenal), armored support, and double or tripple the amount of respawns.



That would be fair. Good for target practice to!



*insert sarcastic 'I pitty this thread!' image here*



Wait until the patch, and the armor will be better. There shouldn't be super-nuke PTRDs and T60s to go with the horribly random penetration model. That said, give it times, and the devs will probably put in most of the commonly used vehicles including different variants. It takes time to model, animate, skin, and implement a working tank.
​
 
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#37
Tak said:
I think just for kicks the devs should go off the handle and release a map that is late war and as close to proportionate numbers as possible. Make it an assault on Berlin or something. Give the german team five players (MP40 and K98 only) with a healthy amount of respawns, the Russians get the rest of the players (full arsenal), armored support, and double or tripple the amount of respawns.



That would be fair. Good for target practice to!



*insert sarcastic 'I pitty this thread!' image here*



Wait until the patch, and the armor will be better. There shouldn't be super-nuke PTRDs and T60s to go with the horribly random penetration model. That said, give it times, and the devs will probably put in most of the commonly used vehicles including different variants. It takes time to model, animate, skin, and implement a working tank.
​
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No. The devs will never balance it, there will always be Soviet bias.

Why are we seeing PZIVs in Arad and not T60s? Why do the Soviets always get the best possible armament? It's bull, and it will never be fixed. I'm just waiting for mods now.

It doesn't piss me off that much, with the right skills a single PZIV can destroy a bunch of IS2s(just like in the real war), but it still sucks. Get real people, there is definite Soviet bias.
 
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#38
kabex said:
No. The devs will never balance it, there will always be Soviet bias.

Why are we seeing PZIVs in Arad and not T60s? Why do the Soviets always get the best possible armament? It's bull, and it will never be fixed. I'm just waiting for mods now.

It doesn't piss me off that much, with the right skills a single PZIV can destroy a bunch of IS2s(just like in the real war), but it still sucks. Get real people, there is definite Soviet bias.
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Hrm...IIRC the Soviets _DID_ defeat the Germans. Damn bias... :rolleyes:
 
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#39
Is that Stug they stuck in RO still considered the "tankhunter" because I thought only the Stug III g was deemed "tankhunter". Also, whats up with the Panzers 3 and 4 without their skirts or side panel armor?? You'd think they would add it in since it was common. Yet the Soviets get the latest verisons of their tanks:mad:
 
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#40
The Panzer III's and IV's don't get their skirts because the versions we have in the game right now (F's I believe) never had them.

Personally, I think people are in love with the skirts but don't realize that they will have almost no effect on gameplay. They provide almost no additional armor protection against AP rounds from tanks. So you'll be somewhat more protected from the PTRD... Big deal.


I do think that the tank "balance" is out of whack, but skirts aren't the answer. Mid-war maps are. There was a LARGE period of time (mid '42 to Mid '44) where the Germans had the Tiger and early Panther Variants and the Russians would be stuck with the T34/76 and KV1. Funny how NONE of the maps in our game is set during that time period.
 
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