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How much for WWI/WWII era rifles?

User Name said:
303 is a good cartridge but there really isn't much surplus left out there, and, the stuff that is still out there is usually left over WWII fodder that often goes either click.......BANG or just click............................ 7.62x54r on the other hand is plentiful because its still being made and used so countries are rotating out older stock and will be for quite some time.

Sounds like the Pakistani crap ammo I purchased a while back. Click, Click Bang.

Have to be very carefull with surplus 303 as sometimes it cooks off a few seconds later. Had that happen once. Always keep your Enfield pointed downrange and wait a minute if it does not go bang instantly.

There is commercial ammo but it is very expensive. 7.62x54r is dirt cheap by comparisson because it is still being made and used by military. It's also more powerfull.

Now I shoot an Idian 308cal Enfield. You get the best of both worlds with that one LOL.:D
 
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Solo4114 said:
Just out of curiosity, why do you say a Mosin? Aside from the cost and ammo availability. Is .303 British hard to find or expensive?

Well, the low cost of the gun and the lower cost of feeding it (ammo is about ten cents a round...) were a big part of my desicion. Mosins are/should be (dunno, haven't gotten mine yet, stupid 10 day waiting period) accurate. They're reliable and simple, which are big selling points for me.

Like User said, the ammo is still plentiful and should be for quite some time. There's even reasonably-priced hunting ammo on the market (being made on lines that used to make ball ammo) and some lots of "sniper" ammo meant for the SVD have hit the surplus market. :D

Also, since you sounded like a first-timer, I figured the inexpensive rifle would be a great idea.
 
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Yeah, I'm a beginner. Been shooting basically twice in my life (did ok, considering my total lack of training).

I looked around online and it looks like .303 British ammo prices depend on how old the ammo is. I'm not really interested in buying surplus ammo, but was unable to find prices for ammo being made currently. If it's anything like surplus ammo, I'm guessing closer to $0.50 a round. :-/

Guess I'll look into the Mosin-Nagants. Not sure if I'd want a 91/30, a 38, or a 44, though.
 
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I'd go with an M38 if you can find one. M44 second, and then a 91/30. My first Mosin was an M44 and that huge fireball had me hooked. The bayonet being stuck on the side didn't help balance but it had a certain coolness factor to it. Plus you get some interesting looks when you extend the bayonet at the range.:D
 
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Solo4114 said:
Yeah, I'm a beginner. Been shooting basically twice in my life (did ok, considering my total lack of training).

I looked around online and it looks like .303 British ammo prices depend on how old the ammo is. I'm not really interested in buying surplus ammo, but was unable to find prices for ammo being made currently. If it's anything like surplus ammo, I'm guessing closer to $0.50 a round. :-/

Guess I'll look into the Mosin-Nagants. Not sure if I'd want a 91/30, a 38, or a 44, though.

The Albanian stuff I got for my 91/30 was made in 88. Recent enough. Ten cents/round.
 
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I would second the remark earlier that if you're new to shooting, you'd be doing yourself a HUGE favor to begin with a .22LR. I know they're not as visually exciting, and I know that they arent WWII standards, but there is nothing better to learn on. And if you're dead set on a WWII rifle, look for a .22LR training rifle from that period. Gunshows are your friend.

You can buy a box of 500+ .22LR rounds for next to nothing. You can buy a semi-automatic, magazine fed rifle for $100 or so at even your local wal-mart. In short, its an extremely efficient way to pick up a little bit of experience. It would suck to get a large caliber rifle that isnt fun to shoot because of the recoil and inaccuracy that comes with not having good technique. Good technique is the result of a lot of practice, and a .22 will let you do that without breaking you or the bank. You will learn proper shooting safety, technique, and cleaning/maintenance practices before you move on to bigger and better things. Additionally, if you do not have ready access to an outdoor firing range or do not live in a rural environment, you may find that an indoor range is the only place you can shoot - and many of them do not allow rifles larger than .22LR for safety reasons.

If you're absolutely certain that you dont want anything less than a full sized, large caliber military rifle, thats understandable. Just be aware of what you are looking for when hunting for a used rifle - a WWII era rifle will most certainly have seen a large deal of hard usage, and your rifle is not worth much more than its weight in metal if it is in poor condition. Hit google and research basic rifle care. When you decide what rifle you're hunting for, do some research on that, too. Learn how to remove the bolt from the rifle. When you go to the store, ask if you can take out the bolt and check the barrel. If they tell you no, turn around and leave immediately because they are likely trying to take you for a ride. If they say yes, check the rifle to make sure its clear, remove the bolt, and point the rifle at a light ON THE CEILING. Look through the chamber, where the bolt used to be. Look up the barrel (still pointing in to the light) and check for pitting. Your google searching should let you know what you're looking for. Give the rifle a good once over, making sure the safety and bolt function correctly. Note the stock - are there little squares or knots of wood that have obviously been inserted to fix cracks, and were then sanded level? Ask a lot of questions, and make it clear that you want a good, functional, shooter - the more educated you are, the better the store owner is going to treat you. If he thinks you know a rip off when you see it, he'll see to it that he doesnt rip you off. Like I said, know what you're looking for, and go in with a purpose. The more information you gather before you walk in the door, the more likely you are to make a good choice on your rifle. When dealing with a piece of equipment that is as powerful and dangerous as a firearm, you owe it to yourself and those around you to be educated and safe.

I always suggest that you patronize your local gun store, even if that costs a few more dollars. If this rifle is the beginning of a long love affair with shooting, as I suppose it will be, you will benefit by buying from the same guys - they find ways of showing appreciation for repeat customers. They will probably also find ways to encourage your interest in shooting sports if they know you're buying for the first time. If you ever have a problem, you are a phone call and a car ride from making it right. Buy local if you can.

As was mentioned by another poster, if you buy over the internet, you will need to have the rifle shipped to a local FFL (federal firearms licensed dealer) so they can ensure you're legally qualified to buy a firearm. Your local gun shop will be FFL certified, so this is where you'll want it shipped if they allow you to. This costs money, and different shops will charge you different rates - basically, they can ask whatever they want, although you'd probably find $30 to be about average. If someday you become a big collector, you might find it best to get your own FFL - but that is a long drive down a road you're not on yet. :)
 
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And, since you were concerned about the .303 British ammo price - assume a price of about $1 per round, new in the box. Typically sold in boxes of 20, you'll find that before taxes you're paying about $20 per box. Keep your brass, and then some day if you start reloading ammunition, you'll have a good supply of casings to start with.
 
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Thanks for the tips. My thought process in learning on a full calibre rifle instead of a trainer was basically that, although there's a steep learning curve, if you learn to shoot a more difficult weapon presumably you can apply those same techniques to an easier weapon. Kind of like driving a manual transmission car -- if you can handle one that's difficult to drive, easier transmissions are no problem. Basically the "If you can shoot this, you can shoot anything" approach. But that may not really apply. I've plinked around with a 30-06 and a .365 and did ok. I think with time I could learn to manage the recoil.

On the other hand, learning on an el cheapo .22LR might not be such a bad thing since ammo would be cheap and if it turned out to be a hobby I just wasn't into, I'd at least be able sell a newer rifle for not much less than what I paid (I'd hope).

Anyway, definitely food for thought. Thanks again for the tips, guys.
 
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It is best to learn on a .22 because it is very easy to develop a flinch when firing full sized rifle cartridges. Once you develop a flinch when pulling the trigger it can be hard to get rid of, and your accuracy will suffer as a result. With a .22 your going to be able to learn to shoot without developing a fear of recoil so you'll be more prepared for when you do move up to a bigger round.

If your going to learn to shoot with a full on military rifle you should buy some snap caps for that caliber rifle and then have someone else (someone you trust) load your rifle at random with the snap caps and live ammo. Then you won't know if the rifle is going to go off and you'll be able to control any flinch you develop.
 
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I still love shooting rimfires. I'm planning a range trip to shoot my "new" 91/30 and I'll definitely be taking my Marlin .22 along for the ride.

What I loved about .22 rifles was that I used to be able to back-yard shoot at my grandparents' house back in MI, and when you use a .22 rifle, you don't even need hearing protection. :cool:
 
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{YBBS}Sage said:
Woot, I just bought my Mosin-Nagant today (a 91/30 dated 1942), though I have to wait till the 26th to pick it up (stupid waiting period...)

$90, including bayonet.

Oh, and a tin (340 rds) of Albanian steel-core for $40.. though I can find a better deal, I just felt too lazy to, and like helping out the local gun shop.


Did you order the one from aimsurplus.com?


I've looked at them, and I know it says reconditioned, but I'm curious as to the quality. The 91/30 would make an excellent wall piece when not being shot, too, once I figure out how I want to display it with the ammo pouches/bayo and such.


Enough of that though, I'm just curious about the condition. Have you seen it yet or gone sight-unseen?
 
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Here are some of mine. They were all reconditioned at the same time as the ones at AIM now. These were just imported a couple of years ago. (2001-2004)

1940 Tula
1940Tula1.jpg


1934 Tula
34Tula.jpg


1943 ex-sniper
43sniper.jpg


I have more but I didn't want to overload this thread with pics. All these Mosins that have been coming in are being imported from the Ukraine. They were rebuilt in the 1970s so the Soviets would have a ready reserve of rifles for when the great western hordes invaded.

The RC K98ks came out of the same salt mines these Mosins were stored in and were refurbished at the same time. They also have MP40s, G43s, STG44s, Tanks, and just about every other WWII weapon you could want in those mines. I'd love to go there and take a tour!

Most of the rifles have very good + bores although you still can encounter rifles with bad bores. My 1943 M44 has virtually no rifling at the muzzle so I've had to relegate it to wall hanger duty. Since it is an uncommon piece though its not so bad.

If this is your first Mosin I recommend buying it from a gun shop. That way you can check out the bore and see if any of them might be different. The '34 Tula pictured above was purchased at a gun shop and I noticed it due to its unique stock markings. Thankfully the bore was in good shape and its a hex receiver. The stock is even Tula marked. Its marked 1930 though.

That 1940 Tula in the laminated stock was purchased at a pawn shop for $110 dollars. So you might want to check those out too. You may even find a dusty old Finn Mosin at a pawn shop. A friend of mine found a 1938 Tula with an SA mark at a pawn shop with a tag that said "Mauser $90".:D

Dang didn't expect to make a post this long but there you go!
 
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User Name said:
A friend of mine found a 1938 Tula with an SA mark at a pawn shop with a tag that said "Mauser $90".:D


LOL!!!

Great post on the whole, I just snipped it to keep from flooding the screen. Lovely pictures, too.

My main concern is firability. I want the rifle mainly for a wall piece, but I want to still be able to fire it safely and at least somewhat accurately, say once a month or so. It doesn't have to be up for heavy firing (I'm a cheap ass and the rounds are more expensive than I want to put down a range :p) just servicable. I've never dealt with Aimsurplus at all, either, so no clue what to expect. I solved the problem though, and sent them an email. Three-day weekend in most of the state's though so I'll just hear back from them whenever.


Thanks again for the reply. I'll have to head to the local gunshop and see if they have WW2 stuff.
 
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User Name said:
Most of the rifles have very good + bores although you still can encounter rifles with bad bores. My 1943 M44 has virtually no rifling at the muzzle so I've had to relegate it to wall hanger duty. Since it is an uncommon piece though its not so bad.
Is it actually almost smoothed (as in rifling is worn to ****) or was it actually counterbored and recrowned? That's pretty common.

(For people unfamiliar with what I'm talking about...)
The REASON for counterboring and then recrowning down "inside" the muzzle was usually excessive wear from n00bs (aka "conscripts") cleaning their rifles from the muzzle end, with steel cleaning rods—for ALL rifles, this is a no-no, because you'll grind down the rifling and **** up the crown.

Tak said:
My main concern is firability. I want the rifle mainly for a wall piece, but I want to still be able to fire it safely and at least somewhat accurately, say once a month or so.
Well, bear in mind that these are MILITARY rifles. Barring catastrophic damage (or headspace issues, which a gunsmith can usually fix for you without much cost), the things can probably take more abuse than you can. :p
 
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No the rifling is that bad. I have an M38 with a counter-bore so I know what to look for. Who ever had it during WWII cleaned it without the rod guide and wore it out. Then it some how got through the refurb process without being counter-bored.


These rifles are safe. Since all these rifles were put together from parts bins during refurb. they used the servicable parts and threw out the bad barrels, parts, etc. Thats not to say that a bad one didn't get through but the odds are very against you getting one that's unsafe to fire. I have 20+ Mosins total and none of them are unsafe.

Oh, and since Mosins headspace on the rim of the cartridge the odds of having headspace problems is very slim but if your worried about it you should get it checked by a smith. I have a 1944 M44 that had headspace problems. I found out the first time I put a round in and the bolt WOULD NOT CLOSE! Obviously they did not test fire these Mosins after they were done putting them back together. At least they didn't test fire that one. I just swapped out the bolt head with another rifle and they both worked fine.
 
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Tak said:
Did you order the one from aimsurplus.com?


I've looked at them, and I know it says reconditioned, but I'm curious as to the quality. The 91/30 would make an excellent wall piece when not being shot, too, once I figure out how I want to display it with the ammo pouches/bayo and such.


Enough of that though, I'm just curious about the condition. Have you seen it yet or gone sight-unseen?

No, I bought mine from a local gun store named "City Arms." Great place in Pacifica. I took it out for the first time today, it was great. She shoots a touch to the left, maybe 3-4 inches at 100 yds, but I think that's because it was sighted with the bayonet on. I'm going back tomorrow with a hammer and punch and try to fix the problem. It also hits about 12" high at 100 yd, which I've read is pretty common for the 91/30. Maybe it was sighted with heavier ammo. That Albanian I've got (it's 440 rd, I got that wrong) is "light steel ball", so maybe some heavy ball would hit closer to the mark. Dunno. It's not a huge deal to just aim a bit low, but there are ways to correct it.

Anyway, the condition is terriffic. Great stock, no splits, the finish is pretty good. I wound up shooting next to a group that included a guy with an M44 (man, that fireball is distracting out of the corner of your eye!), we got to talking and compared/shot each other's rifles. He commented on how nice my rifle's stock is. :D I took a few pix earlier today, I plan on more before/after the range trip tomorrow (range rules: no cameras.. to many anti-gun nuts out here who'll harrass people). Then I'll upload 'em somewhere.

AFAIK, most Mosins you'll find are "reconditioned" because they were issued, then turned back into arsenal where they got the reconditioning and mothball treatment.

Stiletto: the 91/30 cleaning rod is supposed to go in from the muzzle. There's a little cap you put on the cleaning rod that goes over the muzzle as a guide to protect it. And yeah, I use the cleaning kit that was issued with my rifle.

Cap pix (not mine, but identical:)

muzcap002b.JPG


muzcap002a.JPG
 
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Yeah, I'm sure they're not going to be in new or like-new condition ;) Their disclaimer on the sight though has me a bit put off. I know barrel will be worn, but it's down to being smooth and/or impossible to sight into a accurately fireable position, well... I might as well buy one completely unservicable and just wall-mount the thing.


But, thanks for the reply, and bring on the picts! :)
 
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