I'm sure Arafat and his cohorts were in it for the money and power. The lower level guys hand select the people who become "Homocide Bombers". I am sure they are out for revenge or some other personal motive.
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The War in Iraq, good or bad? speak your mind here!
- Thread starter Gunwing
- Start date
- Status
Yep, I agree.DingBat said:
It is not possible to name one single factor that took away all the options and drove these people to terrorizing. Isreal has done some shitty things to make Palestinians lives difficult, but it is not all Israels fault I'm sure.
I have never said that Israel is solely to blame. I'm saying that both terrrorist and Isreal have done shitty things and make the situation bad.
I just didn't want you to label these terrorist as people whose motive to terrorize and kill people is to achieve evil goals like power and money. Their motives are far more complex and result of the environment and not personal greed. But when you go higher up to the people who run the show, I'm sure you can find people with more evil goals.
Also remember that terrorist organizations like Hizbollah and Hamas run and build hospitals and schools and orphanages. So there are people in higher up also with good goals.
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BuddyLee said:You mean news from the same Networks that sold everyone the Iraq War WMD's and helped lie to everybody to help Bush?!?That we are debating about.
Surely they world never lie again...not that I think anyone lied, not untill I see proof.{on both the WMD's...and the election}
Bush has himself by now admitted that the wmd's werent there. they did lie, i can assure you. we've been in charge of iraq since 2002-3 and i think by now we would've found the freakin things if they were still there anyhow.
I find that there were many hypocrisies and crappy logic to the argument for invading iraq. for instance, they told us that saddam was a threat to the western world, a big crony who wanted to and could be capable of taking over places. yet, at the same time, they also told us that it wouldn't cost hardly any of the tax payer's money to go to war and the iraqis would happily cheer us on and help us.
i think most logic generally says: big bad tough guy who kills everyone and is a big threat= costly, horrible fight if you try and take him on
Saddam was such a threat that we defeated his elite republican guards and deposed his regime in no time?
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Those weapons went somewhere... how many trucks do you think traveled between Iraq and Syria in the months before the invasion?
Besides, let me Quote George Costanza, "it's not a lie Jerry...if you believe it".
Besides, let me Quote George Costanza, "it's not a lie Jerry...if you believe it".
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When I was in the Dutch Airforce I had ABC training (Atomic Biological Chemical warfare training) at Woensdrecht Airbase. My instructors were on the team that dismantled/destroyed 95-99% of Iraq's WMD's and the equipment to make them.BuddyLee said:Those weapons went somewhere... how many trucks do you think traveled between Iraq and Syria in the months before the invasion?
Besides, let me Quote George Costanza, "it's not a lie Jerry...if you believe it".
I've seen their video's and they told about that the dangers were limited. Infact the video's showed them without full ABC kit while blowing the stuff up and checking if that worked for each batch they destroyed.
They didn't have nukes nor the equipment to make them.
And as for biological weapons in Iraq, ask your government about them, they supplied them. (they never found any labs that could produce or stock them and such labs are too big to fit on trucks...).
Woensdrecht Airbase is one of two airbases in the Netherlands which were equiped for nukes. There are storage bunkers and command bunkers to deploy them there. Our government denies we have nukes on the other base but that also has the facilities. (I hope we don't get attacked for that...)
Another thing. Did anyone know the Ausies tested several types of chemical weapons on their own troops? To see if they were still capable of combat after use. They were afraid that the Japanese would come too close to mainland Australia and thought about using mustardgas if the Japanese would.
Seen video's of that as well... man I can tell you mustardgas (Yperite) is bad. Blisters all over your body. They even showed soldiers with blisters on their testicles.
And they had to run an obstacle course wearing full kit and carrying shitloads of equipment (ammo and other supplies) to see how they performed.
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Quietus said:
ROFL, yes, a banker would last more than 10 minutes in the 'hood...
I've been in those neighborhoods, and let me tell ya, I don't exactly reek of money (because I don't have any), but the looks I got made me feel like I was a baby gazelle dropped into the middle of a pack of hyena... A BANKER!? Come on...
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theres a resounding difference between BACKERS and BANKERS my son. unfortunately, the guy was talking about the former, nowhere did he mention the latter.
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Oops, I thought it said "Banker." My face is a bit red....
Just the same... The who did what? And the volunteers who run the election polling stations? Where were they? Those people are absolute fanatics.
Just the same... The who did what? And the volunteers who run the election polling stations? Where were they? Those people are absolute fanatics.
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There's an old joke:
Q: How do we know Saddam has weapons of mass destruction?
A: We kept the receipts.
Here's what we know:
1. Saddam had wmd's. He used gas against both the Kurds and the Iranians.
2. As part of the penalties applied at the end of the Gulf War, Saddam was to divest himself of all wmd's.
3. No wmd's were found (or have yet been found) in Iraq after the american invasion.
Now, the evidence seems to strongly indicate that Saddam did in fact get rid of all of his wmd's. However, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he could have moved them to other countries.
Unfortunately, you can't prove a negative, so I suspect this debate will continue until someone finds a smoking gun, say an inventory from an old chemical arsenal or something.
Q: How do we know Saddam has weapons of mass destruction?
A: We kept the receipts.
Here's what we know:
1. Saddam had wmd's. He used gas against both the Kurds and the Iranians.
2. As part of the penalties applied at the end of the Gulf War, Saddam was to divest himself of all wmd's.
3. No wmd's were found (or have yet been found) in Iraq after the american invasion.
Now, the evidence seems to strongly indicate that Saddam did in fact get rid of all of his wmd's. However, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he could have moved them to other countries.
Unfortunately, you can't prove a negative, so I suspect this debate will continue until someone finds a smoking gun, say an inventory from an old chemical arsenal or something.
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He also kept giving the inspectors whose job it was to make sure he was complying the runaround. The way I understood it at the time, we went in because of that more than anything else. The burden of proof that he'd gotten rid of his toys was on him because of the sanctions we slapped his country with after the Kuwait thing. Instead of cooperating with inspectors, he kept throwing obstacles in their way.
Why would he do that if he was compliant?
Why would he do that if he was compliant?
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How do you prove you never smoked pot? How do you prove you never stole a car? How do you prove etc. etc.
This is what was wrong with the accusations. Normally the accusing party has to prove something WAS done, not the other way around.
If this is the strategy to attack countries then I'm 100% sure there will be more invasions in the middle-east.
http://www.kdp.pp.se/old/chemical.html
The attacks on the Kurds with chemical weapons were way way way before the first Gulfwar... The destruction of WMD's and installations was AFTER the first Gulfwar.
Oh, and didn't the U.S. government rectify the accusations? Didn't they say there were no WMD's themselves?
This is what was wrong with the accusations. Normally the accusing party has to prove something WAS done, not the other way around.
If this is the strategy to attack countries then I'm 100% sure there will be more invasions in the middle-east.
http://www.kdp.pp.se/old/chemical.html
The attacks on the Kurds with chemical weapons were way way way before the first Gulfwar... The destruction of WMD's and installations was AFTER the first Gulfwar.
Oh, and didn't the U.S. government rectify the accusations? Didn't they say there were no WMD's themselves?
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[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]In addition to the legally binding UNSCRs, the UN Security Council has also issued at least 30 statements from the President of the UN Security Council regarding Saddam Hussein's continued violations of UNSCRs. The list of statements includes:[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions."[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must "unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material" or any research, development or manufacturing facilities.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 KM and related major parts and repair and production facilities."[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must not "use, develop, construct or acquire" any weapons of mass destruction.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must reaffirm its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Creates the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) to verify the elimination of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs and mandated that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verify elimination of Iraq's nuclear weapons program.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must declare fully its weapons of mass destruction programs.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must not commit or support terrorism, or allow terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate in accounting for the missing and dead Kuwaitis and others.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War. Missles with a range greater than above limits were found after tha invasion, emty chemical warheads were also found. Saddam gave monies to families of "Homocide Bombers". There were also wanted terrorists and terrorist training camps found in Iraq.[/FONT][/FONT]
- [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]"Condemns" repression of Iraqi civilian population, "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security."[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must immediately end repression of its civilian population.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to those in need of assistance. Iraq repeatedly fires uppon US war planes patroling the 'No-Fly Zones' that are in place to protect Iraqs neibours and the Kurds.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Condemns" Iraq's "serious violation" of UNSCR 687.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]"Further condemns" Iraq's noncompliance with IAEA and its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must halt nuclear activities of all kinds until the Security Council deems Iraq in full compliance.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must make a full, final and complete disclosure of all aspects of its weapons of mass destruction and missile programs.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cease attempts to conceal or move weapons of mass destruction, and related materials and facilities.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors to conduct inspection flights throughout Iraq.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must provide transportation, medical and logistical support for UN and IAEA inspectors. RoadBlocks are thrown up in front of UN inspectors...especially in the event of a supprise inspection of a facility.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors. Warning.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq. Saddam tests the resolve of newb Prez. Clinton, as well as the resolve of the UN.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.Still not cooperating :S[/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.Still in Violation...WTF!?![/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.GRRRrrrr....WTF!?![/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview. ZOMFG!! Cooperate already!![/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access......!@#$!![/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq." Cooperate or else!![/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access. Still in Violation...WTF!?![/FONT][/FONT]
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[*]"Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors. is this getting redundant? WTF!?![/FONT][/FONT]
- [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]In addition to the legally binding UNSCRs, the UN Security Council has also issued at least 30 statements from the President of the UN Security Council regarding Saddam Hussein's continued violations of UNSCRs. The list of statements includes:[/FONT][/FONT]
- [FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif]
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1991
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 5, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 19, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 28, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 6, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 11, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 12, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, April 10, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 17, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, July 6, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, September 2, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 24, 1992
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 8, 1993
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 11, 1993
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 18, 1993
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1993
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1993
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 8, 1994
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 19, 1996
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 14, 1996
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, August 23, 1996
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 30, 1996
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 13, 1997
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 29, 1997
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 13, 1997
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 3, 1997
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 22, 1997
[*]UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 14, 1998[/FONT][/FONT]
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If you are such a patriot, why don't you join the army and fight for your country? You might think different then, just like the majority of soldiers who were in iraq, which now have traumas and often can't sleep well anymore.BuddyLee said:
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Is that the Best you can come up with? that must indicate that you cannot dismiss my previous post.DraKon2k said:
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The US was given athority by the UN. Why else would we be patroling the Iraqi Skies?Rrralphster said:
If no one else is willing to enforce the UN sanctions and resolutions what are they good for? What kind of message does that send to future violators?
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Actually I didn't answer directly to your sentence I quoted, but to how you talk here in general.BuddyLee said:
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Pardon me, I don't understand exactly what you mean.DraKon2k said:
Are you talking about Iraqi Violations of UN Resolutions?, or are you talking about the previous 'generalizations' about Iran?.... Because I don't see how I was generalizing in my quoted post about the Violations.
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Since you were so eager to show the resolutions, could you also show us the authority?BuddyLee said:
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