• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

Shouldering Weapon Discussion (Merged Threads)

Look I'm a fairly skilled player and I'm usually on the top of the list. Its not a question of me getting owned as you like to read it, because you lack a proper argument. It's simply something unrealistic and harmful to the gameplay. Because of that, it's annoying and should be fixed. I've yet to hear a proper argument against this:

Problem is, if you're about to go around a corner and expect an enemy there, you will want to pull up the iron sights because otherwise you have a great chance of missing. Therefore as you approach the corner, you press the iron sights key and it begins to bring up the sights. Just as you have clicked the button, an enemy comes around the corner about 1-2 meters away, aiming at you, ready to gun you down.

What would you do IRL? You'd not wait until you can bring up the sights, you'd just pull the trigger already!

What would you do in RO? Well because you're mystically stuck in the iron sights animation, your avatar suffers from a temporary, unrealistic inability to pull the trigger. All you can do is stand there and watch him take a shot at you because you cannot do a thing being stuck in the IS animation. You can't shoot him or run away or anything else like that. Well, you could go prone, but at that range he's not going to miss you even if you do, plus that is COMPLETELY unrealistic nobody would do that IRL. They'd just shoot.

Finally, yes, the freeaim area IS way exaggerated. I know from my personal shooting experience that in the real life, it is MUCH, I say again, MUCH easier to hit a man-sized target at close ranges than in RO. That, plus R/L if you begin to bring up the sights you're perfectly able to interrupt your action and take a shot like that, but in RO you can't do that, you're stuck in the animation.
 
Upvote 0
Uhh, look, this is a completely different subject. That thread is about being able to interrupt the iron sights animation for taking a shot. This thread is about either replacing the hipped mode with shouldered non IS mode, or by adding an intermediate stance between hipped mode and iron sights mode.

And yes, it is definately needed, and realistic. Especially for the rifles. SMG gunners favoured the tactic of firing from the hip and using the sling for more support, but riflemen wouldn't...
 
Upvote 0
It's not about spotting the enemy, bringing up sights and firing while bringing the sights up to save time. Nobody does that.

It's about shooting at someone two meters away when he materialises during the process of you bringing the sights up.

Ask ANY war veteran or ANY soldier who has done military service. In that situation, ANYONE would simply instantly squeeze the trigger.
 
Upvote 0
Centar said:
Problem is, if you're about to go around a corner and expect an enemy there, you will want to pull up the iron sights because otherwise you have a great chance of missing. Therefore as you approach the corner, you press the iron sights key and it begins to bring up the sights. Just as you have clicked the button, an enemy comes around the corner about 1-2 meters away, aiming at you, ready to gun you down.

Good lord, here's your problem. Pull up the sights BEFORE you get to the corner.... You don't do it while you are rushing in, you are begging to get shot. If I approach a corner/doorway and am not sure whats on the other side I either...

A. Toss a grenade in then move in ready to hip shoot....

B. Bring up the sights and "slice the pie" as I strafe around the corner.

What your asking is the ability to do room/corner celaning the "wrong way"!!!
 
Upvote 0
Just because it is theoretically possible doesn't make it realistic. I mean in real life I could carry two mp40s and dual wield them like Rambo or something but that doesn't mean that it is realisitc.

It's about shooting at someone two meters away when he materialises during the process of you bringing the sights up.

Do you not realize that it takes less than half a second to bring up a rifle? I mean if you are in the "process of bring the sights up" then you only have 0.25 seconds or less to bring the gun up ready to fire. Seriously you need to use some common sense.
 
Upvote 0
Still haven't asked a vet eh?

I know the iron sights animation is very short. But when a guy comes around the corner, it comes down to who clicks the mouse1 first. And you're not able to. In that situation, 0.1 seconds is a very long time, because even the guy with slowest reflexes can react in that time. Or if a grenade lands near you, you have about 0.25 secs to escape, and you're stuck there bolting your rifle or lowering/rising the iron sights.
 
Upvote 0
Rrralphster said:
I'm quite sure that when I posted my last message in this thread, the most recent relevant topic was on page one in the suggestions area of the forum. Last posted in yesterday...in fact, last post in it was today. And the thread was started by you, Artem. So this IS a stupid thread.

Artems last thread about being able to shoot while shouldering

*Buzz* Wrong again. Totally different subjects. Read my posts. Also, poster above me explained it well.
 
Upvote 0
The way I see it, you should be able to pull the trigger at any moment that the finger is placed on it, shooting where the gun pointed when you “bring up your sights”, bring them down, jump, run, reloading (as long that there are bullets left in the chamber) or whenever. But all consequences of doing so would apply. Meaning that if you would hurt your shoulder, be knocked backwards or maybe you loose your gun? then that is what would happen in the game, honestly I don’t know what would happen, but I think Red Orchestra should get more smooth gameplay without limitations like being unable to fire or melee attack when “switching aim”, during run transition, reload, change stance, etc. You get the idea?

The main problem with this is that it would require new animations and/or weapon code, hence work for the developers. And people getting frustrated because they fire too early and hurt themselves when they try to make a quick aim and fire manoeuvre.

And something slightly related yet unrelated, I also think that you should be able to use grenades with out switching to them as in putting your rifle/gun away, I think a soldier is able to hold a rifle (maybe not the MG42 and other large weaponry) with one hand and throw the grenade with the other.
 
Upvote 0
I'd like it so that if you went to iron-sights view, and then started moving, you'd just pick your head up a bit off the sights and go to the shouldered view you're talking about here. Stop moving, and you put your head back down on the gun for aiming down the sights. Seems like a fairly natural way to move to me...? Except with a pistol. No reason to go unsighted, you're already in a good moving stance.
 
Upvote 0
{YBBS}Sage said:
I'd like it so that if you went to iron-sights view, and then started moving, you'd just pick your head up a bit off the sights and go to the shouldered view you're talking about here. Stop moving, and you put your head back down on the gun for aiming down the sights. Seems like a fairly natural way to move to me...? Except with a pistol. No reason to go unsighted, you're already in a good moving stance.
Very good idea, I like the sound of that.
 
Upvote 0
{YBBS}Sage
I'd like it so that if you went to iron-sights view, and then started moving, you'd just pick your head up a bit off the sights and go to the shouldered view you're talking about here. Stop moving, and you put your head back down on the gun for aiming down the sights. Seems like a fairly natural way to move to me...? Except with a pistol. No reason to go unsighted, you're already in a good moving stance.
I like this idea except since in shouldered view your head will be far enough away from the gun that if you quickly needed to take a accurate shot, you couldn't move your cheek against the butt and resight (would take like a sec or 2) fast enough to get him before he finds cover. Well I dunno, since you can now shoot over sandbags and cover without having most of your view cut off, there will be a lot more people looking around and taking shots and giving suppressing fire. Maybe make it a option, since you can move while using iron sights IRL and in this game, its not very accurate but the shorter time to resight after you stop moving is a advantage that should not be overlooked.
 
Upvote 0
I really like how you all have come to an idea that works.
Its important to realise however that we are trying to come up with idea so solve a problem that would be accurate to what a trained soldier during wwii would be used to...
Im going to repeat a few points that have allready been said, i know...but its important to understand these...
Firing from the hip is not accurate...duh...WHy? because there is nothing to brase the gun up against...nor is there a sure idea of where you are exactly aiming...
If we are talking about SMG's then we have a third issue...one ofcourse releating to continuous recoil...
These weapons do not fire pellets, BB's, or Paintballs...they fire high Cal. rounds...some fire at a very high rate.
The mosin will fire a very strong 7.62 round (equal to a 308 more or less).
This fire arm has a very beefy kick as well as a heavy weight.

The mauser is slightly lighter and shorter, has a slightly weaker kick, and combined with these elements, has a bit more maneuverability...It packs a 7.92 round (close to a 30-06).

This past weekend i took a few buddies of mine out to a fireing range (basicly an old logging field) and shot a few houndred rounds...The main goal for this trip was to sight in a couple new mosin PU scopes i bought over the internet...
So after about a half an hour of sighting the damn things in i had an ADD moment...and ofcourse wanted to shoot things (more randome thing than a target) haha...
I told my friends about the issue we were having on the forum (this issue) and handed them each a mauser and a mosin... i told them to load up about 5 rounds and to put on a couple layers of thik wear because i told them this might hurt...
We ended up firing about 10 rounds each...firing from the hip, shoulder, and quite a few times from verrious possistions in between...We left that day with about 250 spent 8mm rounds and about 150 spent 7.62 rounds (damn import russian rounds are expensive)...but we also left with bruisses and my friend Dan with an arm refractured from a past injury...I have to say that the things i do for this forum are just crazy at times...And yes...we are all well educated in fire arms...I myself collect and shoot old relic rifles so i knew what i was doing.
I want conclude by saying that after doing this test and knowing that most russian and german soldiers, in their infancy of training, must have had their shoulder bruissed up a few times...this would be avoided...also i know that the basic training for these soldiers would not have supported the way that this thread is suggesting...
The best way to prevent from anyone running into you from around a corner or what not, is by having your beyo attached or by actually clearing the room as a true soldier is educated to do...instead of running into a room w/o knoing if its hot or not...try leaning around the corner and aiming into the room...
The fact that people want a faster approach to aiming and killing suggests that they (not naming names or suggesting anything wrong with it) are used to a more fst paced shooter...You can achieve better effeciancy of killing by being allert and smart about how you approach a situation...Now i know that what i write will not change the minds of others...not will i single handedly convince anyone that there is no need for such a new fireing method...So i wont try.
But anyway peace.
-uBi
 
Upvote 0