The bottom line is it all comes down to the experience of the crew, and the skill of the gunner.
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Tiger - The Facts
- Thread starter Armed_To_Teeth
- Start date
This is taken from wikipedia.org:
Tigers were capable of destroying their most common opponents, the T-34, Sherman, or Churchill IV at ranges exceeding 1,600 m. In contrast, the T-34's 76.2mm gun could not penetrate the Tiger frontally at any range, but could achieve a side penetration at approximately 500 meters firing the BR-350P APCR ammunition. The T-34-85's 85mm gun could penetrate the Tiger from the side at over 1,000 meters. The IS-2's 122mm gun could destroy the Tiger at ranges exceeding 1,000 meters from any aspect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I
Tigers were capable of destroying their most common opponents, the T-34, Sherman, or Churchill IV at ranges exceeding 1,600 m. In contrast, the T-34's 76.2mm gun could not penetrate the Tiger frontally at any range, but could achieve a side penetration at approximately 500 meters firing the BR-350P APCR ammunition. The T-34-85's 85mm gun could penetrate the Tiger from the side at over 1,000 meters. The IS-2's 122mm gun could destroy the Tiger at ranges exceeding 1,000 meters from any aspect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I
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Quote from battlefield.ru
"Compared with the Tiger, the JS-2 was slightly better protected even though it was ten tons lighter.. The 88 mm and 122 mm guns had more or less the same AP ability, but again, German gun had less HE ability. Both tanks could penetrate each other's frontal armor from ~1000 metres. At greater distances success highly depended on experience of the crew and battle conditions.
The JS-2 had thicker armor, thus it had a better chance at distances over 1500 metres. On the other hand, the Tiger had better optics and thus had a better chance of hitting the JS-2. The main drawback of the Tiger was the slow angular velocity of the turret. However, the Tiger had an excellent length/width ratio (almost 1:1) which made it extremely maneuverable. And if the Tiger could not traverse its turret fast enough, the whole tank could swivel to bring the gun to bear."
Nice russian penetration table
http://www.battlefield.ru/pics/penetration2_r.gif
So as you see IS-2 is not having _ANY_ problem to penetrate Tiger and T-34/85 can penetrate it quite well also.
"Compared with the Tiger, the JS-2 was slightly better protected even though it was ten tons lighter.. The 88 mm and 122 mm guns had more or less the same AP ability, but again, German gun had less HE ability. Both tanks could penetrate each other's frontal armor from ~1000 metres. At greater distances success highly depended on experience of the crew and battle conditions.
The JS-2 had thicker armor, thus it had a better chance at distances over 1500 metres. On the other hand, the Tiger had better optics and thus had a better chance of hitting the JS-2. The main drawback of the Tiger was the slow angular velocity of the turret. However, the Tiger had an excellent length/width ratio (almost 1:1) which made it extremely maneuverable. And if the Tiger could not traverse its turret fast enough, the whole tank could swivel to bring the gun to bear."
Nice russian penetration table
http://www.battlefield.ru/pics/penetration2_r.gif
So as you see IS-2 is not having _ANY_ problem to penetrate Tiger and T-34/85 can penetrate it quite well also.
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It all comes down to skill!
1 Konigstiger vs 150 Russian tanks.
Trained crew achieved the impossible
http://pedg.org/panzer/public/website/gen10.htm
1 Konigstiger vs 150 Russian tanks.
Trained crew achieved the impossible
http://pedg.org/panzer/public/website/gen10.htm
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I found this quote while reading last night and found it pretty interesting:
"In addition, a fire fight with Josef Stalin tanks should not be undertaken at less than platoon strength; employment of individual Tigers means their loss."
-From September 1944 issue of the Nachrichtenblatt der Panzertruppen, report of a Tiger unit which had met the IS-II in combat (found in: Soviet Armor Tactics of WWII, Charles C. Sharp).
I also found this one pretty amusing:
"They call us the 6th Panzer Army because we have 6 tanks left."
- Waffen SS General Sepp Dietrich
"In addition, a fire fight with Josef Stalin tanks should not be undertaken at less than platoon strength; employment of individual Tigers means their loss."
-From September 1944 issue of the Nachrichtenblatt der Panzertruppen, report of a Tiger unit which had met the IS-II in combat (found in: Soviet Armor Tactics of WWII, Charles C. Sharp).
I also found this one pretty amusing:
"They call us the 6th Panzer Army because we have 6 tanks left."
- Waffen SS General Sepp Dietrich
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That last one 
The thing I'd like to see in the game is immobilization. Could we have that, please. It presents some problems in the gameplay (if the crew bails out new tank won't spawn until last one is destroyed) though but devs can figure it out since they are clever guys.
The thing I'd like to see in the game is immobilization. Could we have that, please. It presents some problems in the gameplay (if the crew bails out new tank won't spawn until last one is destroyed) though but devs can figure it out since they are clever guys.
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malice said:
and the best tankers...so one way to even the sides is just make the russian guns randomly miss...a lot. That would be realistic
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i was wondering, why are all tank guns perfectly accurate everytime ??
surely they should have a small cones of fire (very small since were talking long range engagments and small cones for the better guns e.g. Kwk 43 /71).
surely they should have a small cones of fire (very small since were talking long range engagments and small cones for the better guns e.g. Kwk 43 /71).
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Well a projectile flying out of a rifled barrel is a projectile flying out of a rifled barrel....physics makes no distinctions between nationalities and origins of manufacture.
The reason I would imagine projectiles in ROOST seem to hit so accurately is that a number of effects still aren't taken into account when doing ballistics.
The largest of these would be drift due to projectile spin, and drift due to wind.
Other factors in real life include ambient air temperature, atmospheric pressure, temperature of the breech and barrel upon firing, nature of the projectile (e.g. tracer ammo versus ball) etc.
The reason I would imagine projectiles in ROOST seem to hit so accurately is that a number of effects still aren't taken into account when doing ballistics.
The largest of these would be drift due to projectile spin, and drift due to wind.
Other factors in real life include ambient air temperature, atmospheric pressure, temperature of the breech and barrel upon firing, nature of the projectile (e.g. tracer ammo versus ball) etc.
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but surely u could simplify all that
a gun with a higher velocity would be less affected by envirmental conditions than a gun with a lower velocity since its in the air less time, so giving higher volcicity guns better accuracy than lower velocity guns would still make sense ...
a gun with a higher velocity would be less affected by envirmental conditions than a gun with a lower velocity since its in the air less time, so giving higher volcicity guns better accuracy than lower velocity guns would still make sense ...
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well physics like germans
naj just joking
high violency huns hwre pretty damn accurate at that time
u cant compare em to a howizer ^^
naj just joking
high violency huns hwre pretty damn accurate at that time
u cant compare em to a howizer ^^
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[5.SS] Hollenfeuer said:
Looks like someone read the Combat Mission:Barbarossa to Berlin manual
Seriously tough! The game manual has the exact same words!
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Jack said:
but incorrect sizing of bores and ammunition, incorrect sight alignments etc. even if all that was perfect, under perfect conditions the weapons were still not 100% accurate, there are dispersion tests ( WWIIOL forums discussions filled with the scans
)
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Yeah in the real world nothing is perfect or consistent.
Even the most well made barrel will have minor flaws at the molecular level, an d now two barrels are alike.
Even with modern laser targeting systems and super high velocity APDS rounds you wont get two hits to land in the exact same position.
Even the most well made barrel will have minor flaws at the molecular level, an d now two barrels are alike.
Even with modern laser targeting systems and super high velocity APDS rounds you wont get two hits to land in the exact same position.
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From my Squad Leader days, it was the veteran german panzer commander against the green soviet tankers that carried the day early in the war. Also most german tanks had radios while soviets had to make due with flags to communicate.
It would be great to have a map over 5km with tanks and only the germans having voip and russians nothing but vehicle commands and maybe two commanders with voip.
It would be great to have a map over 5km with tanks and only the germans having voip and russians nothing but vehicle commands and maybe two commanders with voip.
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Theodrake said:
that wont have too much of a efect...
in public most ppl dont use voip or are too dumb for that ^^
and in pcw's uve got TS
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LemoN said:that wont have too much of a efect...
in public most ppl dont use voip or are too dumb for that ^^
and in pcw's uve got TS
Well this won't work on a pub server, but it would be nice to have some simulation of limited intelligence versus better command structure with decent intel.
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how would u do that?
impossible..
thats some thinbgs that cant be done in computergames atm...
no one can prevent you from using TS
verry few ppl use voip on pubs..
u cant make the russians shgoot better ar something because everyone would play grmans then...,
so whats ur sugestion?
impossible..
thats some thinbgs that cant be done in computergames atm...
no one can prevent you from using TS
verry few ppl use voip on pubs..
u cant make the russians shgoot better ar something because everyone would play grmans then...,
so whats ur sugestion?
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