Ramming speed!

[Byte Me]

In Ogledow as a russian, this panther is too close to our spawn (if you facing the exit of russian spawn, he was to the left at the bottom of hill 247.2). EVERY single shot from me and this other friendly tank (in one of the T76 versions, on top of the hill) richochet off , after all 3 tanks fire about 4 shots (all richocheted). My teammate on the hill just guns it... and well... just look (oh yes, my MS Paint skills suck). Click to enlarge.



A little more happened after that last shot, which I unfortunatly don't have pictures of, so heres what happened. One of the crewmen (actually, might have only been 1 guy in there) exited, but because the tank was on its side, he was put on the tanks side that was sticking into the air and then he fell off and got crushed by the friendly tank . All the while this was happening, I was shooting at the panthers flat top to no avail (on both sides of the turret, front and rear). Anyways, right after the guy got crushed, a IS2 shot the panther in the rear and BOOM!. I know soviets did ram german tanks, but it did not have anywhere near this amount of pushing effect. I saw a similar scenario on another server too, my conclusion... tone down ramming (if thats even possible, could be a engine limitation/problem). Its a little to easy to just gun it and flip a enemy tank. Of course if our shots hadn't been richocheting over and over, this probably would have never happened, so I guess reduce the richochet angle as well (sometimes it happens a lot, other times it doesn't happen at all, kinda wierd, kinda random, even a well placed shot on the flat part of a tank can richochet). Anyone else seen this tank flipping or do it themselves?

 

[sappo]

ok so .. lets dissect this.

#1 the enemy panther had a nice angle from your shots, and managed to deflect all of your rounds. so you complain about it.

#2 your teammate uses some ingenuity to ram the enemy tank as you were all too slow to flank him... so you complain about it.


would you have rather sat in your spawn for 5 hours dinging rounds off him?

I have faced off against 4 tanks at once with my squad-mate... properly angled armour allowed us to deflect all incoming shots (counted maybe 15-20) while destroying all of the enemy tanks. It is a matter of good angle, stupid enemy

 

[Tsoman]

how is he complaining? It's a funny story

 

[sappo]

complaining... with the whole thread.

he complains that all his shots bounced off the well-positioned panther

complains that his teammate was able to push the panther over...

the whole thing is a complaint

 

[Moz]

dude, the ****ing panther was on its side, the armour on the top is nothing in comparison, it should have been easy meat.

 

[JesseCuster]

dude, the ****ing panther was on its side, the armour on the top is nothing in comparison, it should have been easy meat.

Screw the top! HIT THE BOTTOM! There's next to NO armor there.


Or better yet, LEAVE the tank there, and DEFEND it.

Until it gets blown up, it would sit there, and it wouldn't be re-spawning for them to use against you!

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

Actually I believe an inactive vehicle does disappear and respawn after a certain amount of time.

I do believe that the guy was complaining to much about the richochets, but thats his problem and he will learn to fire at the correct spots eventually. But I do have a bit of a problem with the shells not penetrating the top armor. I havn't had much experience with that so I can't say for sure if the shells bounced off due to an error or if they hit slanted armor.

 

[LordKhaine]

If he fired at the time the 3rd screenie was taken.. that's a rather less than ideal position for the panther to be in. It's hardly angled and the armour on top is very thin. In real life that round would easily smash through killing the driver and mostly likely exit underneath the tank.

 

[Theodrake]

ok so .. lets dissect this.

#1 the enemy panther had a nice angle from your shots, and managed to deflect all of your rounds. so you complain about it.

#2 your teammate uses some ingenuity to ram the enemy tank as you were all too slow to flank him... so you complain about it.


would you have rather sat in your spawn for 5 hours dinging rounds off him?

I have faced off against 4 tanks at once with my squad-mate... properly angled armour allowed us to deflect all incoming shots (counted maybe 15-20) while destroying all of the enemy tanks. It is a matter of good angle, stupid enemy

Did you read a different post then I did? I took his post to be:

1. Is it this easy to flip a tank
2. Shouldn't the top of the tank have the thinnest armor and for the most part a nice flat target for the shell to dig into

First is it realistic for a tank to be flipped this easily? If so, ok. But if not, can it be fixed? If not, then we live with it.

And the developer has implied that he will be looking at the code to see if shells are bouncing off too much. Some of us think too many shells bounce off, but until its fixed, change your angle in relation to the target.

I just can't believe how many times on Arad I've sat in my T34 and have a dozen shells bounce off of me. I've noticed recently that I'm opposing smarter players that are actually moving to get a better angle.

 

[Byte Me]

Screw the top! HIT THE BOTTOM! There's next to NO armor there.


Or better yet, LEAVE the tank there, and DEFEND it.

Until it gets blown up, it would sit there, and it wouldn't be re-spawning for them to use against you!

Were you looking at the screen shots? How could I shoot the bottom of the tank from my position? Also, in my first post I said the guy who got crushed might be the only guy in that tank, no way of knowing.

 

[JesseCuster]

Were you looking at the screen shots? How could I shoot the bottom of the tank from my position? Also, in my first post I said the guy who got crushed might be the only guy in that tank, no way of knowing.

Ok, um, you're in a VEHICLE. This means that you can MOVE. For instance, although you are in a position now only to see the TOP of the tank, you could move to a position where, maybe, just POSSIBLY, you could see the BOTTOM of it.

Which brings up another question - are the bottoms of the tanks textured as stunningly as the more normally visible parts of it?

 

[Byte Me]

JesseCuster
Ok, um, you're in a VEHICLE. This means that you can MOVE. For instance, although you are in a position now only to see the TOP of the tank, you could move to a position where, maybe, just POSSIBLY, you could see the BOTTOM of it.

1. I was soloing (I guess thats how you spell it).
2. The guy pushing the tank is pushing it to my left, meaning I would have to go to the right... passing in front of the cannon.
3. Why should I have to circle around to shoot the underside when the top has more surface area and is probably just as weak? I fired 3 shots, 1 next to the cannon and 2 on the back (I was about to fire the fourth when the IS2 destroyed it). For some reason they all richocheted right off.

 

[Reacz]

I remember when I was driving a tank the exact same thing happened to me.

A Russian IS2 was on a hill and I was in a StuG with my gunner, we fired at the IS2, it bounced off, fired again, same result, he'd already shot at us once and missed, so I took the bull by the horns so to speak and rammed him, tipping him on to his side.

Then about 5 seconds later a shell flies in and blows up the IS2 with all the crew inside, needless to say everyone had a good laugh at that one.

 

[Panzer Meyer]

I see no problem with the Panther, it has sloped armor, at the right angle the shots will all richoche off. Granted the top armor of most tanks is weak, so a shot to the top of the turret, where the hatch it for example should of went through and knocked it out. Same as when you shoot the bottom of it. So that might be messed up.

Ramming was a tactic both sides used, not frequently at all, only out of desperation, out of ammo, no other choice, so on. Ramming other tanks was a dangerous bussiness, you got 40 tons of armor against 40 tons of armor, something has to give, the crew inside would get it the worst.

But if the Panther was on sloped ground, where it could flip over by force as in the shot, it is possible. I'd say everything described is realistic other than a shot to the top of the turret. A shot to the top of the turret should of penetrated, after all a mortar round hit to the top was in enough to penetrate.

 

[Byte Me]

Panzer Meyer
I see no problem with the Panther, it has sloped armor, at the right angle the shots will all richoche off. Granted the top armor of most tanks is weak, so a shot to the top of the turret, where the hatch it for example should of went through and knocked it out. Same as when you shoot the bottom of it. So that might be messed up.

I say the Panther needs work, I was on this server the other day (Arad as russian). So me (in T76) and a panther go at it, he was behind a rock so only his turret was exposed. I was behind a mound of dirt and was slightly angled up on it. We sat there FOR MINUTES firing round after round after round, all richocheted (we must have fired 15 each, though some were fired at other vehicles that happened to appear, after they got destroyed we went back to the richochet fest ). Finally the panther ducks behind a hill then pops up at my side and finally gets a hit and I die (of course I was half a sec away from being reloaded ). I fired at the front of the turret and even the cannon! None hit, it was pure bull ****.

Ramming was a tactic both sides used, not frequently at all, only out of desperation, out of ammo, no other choice, so on. Ramming other tanks was a dangerous bussiness, you got 40 tons of armor against 40 tons of armor, something has to give, the crew inside would get it the worst.

But if the Panther was on sloped ground, where it could flip over by force as in the shot, it is possible. I'd say everything described is realistic other than a shot to the top of the turret. A shot to the top of the turret should of penetrated, after all a mortar round hit to the top was in enough to penetrate.

Now you tell me , I didn't hit the top of the turret, I shot at either side (to hit the flatest part of that tank). Anyways, if you notice from the pics the panther was on pretty flat ground. Ramming should have only made a rather huge dent in the Panther and T76 (well I guess it could have punched a hole, I'm not a expert on the mechanics of ramming a tank with another tank ) and disabled the Panther's track. Of course I don't think the engine could handle this complex amount of vehicle interactivity (I bet UE3 will though ). I think if you ram a tank, both tanks should be red and if you hit its tracks, they become disabled. Also, the crew in both should take damage, to prevent this from becoming overly powerful tactic. Although, even on flat ground, I'm still against tank flipping (of course it could be something the devs can't fix ).

 

[Panzer Meyer]

What is a T76? There is no such vehicly in the game.
There is a T34/76 which is NOT on arad however. The only T-34 on arad is the 85mm version. On Ogledow you have the SU-76, the assault gun, hower its not present on the Arad map.

As for the Richocets, it is still realistic. There are numerous accounts of Panthers and Tiger recieving several dozen hits, some up to a 100 and still being operational in some shape or form. The slope and armor thickness of the Panther makes it very hard to kill from the front, plus the thickness of the armor on the front side of the turret is the thickest on a tank. And the slope of the turret on the panther adds to this.

I think you misunderstood me, I agree with you, that a shot to the TOP, meaning not the front or the side, but the ROOF of the turret should penetrate with easy. That is one of the weakest spots for a tank, so yes it should of penetrated.

As for the level ground, looks like he was on the train track. Regardless, you are right, it should not flip over that easily. If it was on the edge some hilly ground, maybe, but still not likly. So yea have a good point there. However, ramming at full speed should have an affect for both tanks. Mostly injuries for the crew and serious damage to the tanks as well.

 

[Byte Me]

Panzer Meyer
What is a T76? There is no such vehicly in the game.
There is a T34/76 which is NOT on arad however. The only T-34 on arad is the 85mm version. On Ogledow you have the SU-76, the assault gun, hower its not present on the Arad map.

Oh bloody hell, I meant T34/76, which I don't think is even in Ogledow, so it was either a T34/76 or T34/85 (I can't tell from the pic, but from my memory I do recall it being a T34/76 with a 70% of correctness). I'm not used the russian naming scheme for tanks .

As for the Richocets, it is still realistic. There are numerous accounts of Panthers and Tiger recieving several dozen hits, some up to a 100 and still being operational in some shape or form. The slope and armor thickness of the Panther makes it very hard to kill from the front, plus the thickness of the armor on the front side of the turret is the thickest on a tank. And the slope of the turret on the panther adds to this.

Well I don't doubt this, since I'm more into infantry and having read much of anything beyond the data sheets for the tanks. But still, sometimes I will aim my cannon on the side near the back of a tank (so as to hit its engine) and the shots will still richochet even though I'm not even remotely at a steep angle (something like 70 degrees) and that part of the armor is flat (obviously varies, but I always try to aim for a flat spot if possible). Well I guess I could live with all these richochets as long as HE rounds rarely would. Aren't they supposed to detonate on impact? Unless the side of the round hit first and then bounced off, it should explode. Of course I don't know how much damage they do to tanks but its better than nothing.

 

[Panzer Meyer]

Oh bloody hell, I meant T34/76, which I don't think is even in Ogledow, so it was either a T34/76 or T34/85 (I can't tell from the pic, but from my memory I do recall it being a T34/76 with a 70% of correctness). I'm not used the russian naming scheme for tanks .
Well I don't doubt this, since I'm more into infantry and having read much of anything beyond the data sheets for the tanks. But still, sometimes I will aim my cannon on the side near the back of a tank (so as to hit its engine) and the shots will still richochet even though I'm not even remotely at a steep angle (something like 70 degrees) and that part of the armor is flat (obviously varies, but I always try to aim for a flat spot if possible). Well I guess I could live with all these richochets as long as HE rounds rarely would. Aren't they supposed to detonate on impact? Unless the side of the round hit first and then bounced off, it should explode. Of course I don't know how much damage they do to tanks but its better than nothing.

The T34/76 is available on Ogledow as is the 85mm version, along with the SU76 and IS2. However, Arad has only the 85mm available with the IS2, that is it.

I see your pain about hitting the rear of the tank, which sometimes happens to me too. I am not too sure about that, but I'd think hitting the rear of the tank, even though its the side/rear should penetrate with a 85mm. Again though it all depends...

 

[Misanthrope]

Man you guys are hard on people

Man you guys are hard on people

Jeez, the guy didn't post to complain. Anyone can see that. He had a good story and a couple of questions about the game. This is a GOOD thing, as we're all getting positive feedback and ideas from this post.

Dont be so hard on people. We're all in this together.

And as for some of you, just because he didn't think as fast as you or I, don't condemn him for it, or make him feel stupid. He posted to the community with a good story and questions and some of you treat him like an idiot.

 

[ViViD]

Ogledow has both T34/76 and T34/85 if your in a 76 you are correct something is wrong the panther should of ripped you apart in 1 or 2 shots while all your shots ricoheted.

You can not realistically from any angle penetrate a Panther from the front with a T34/76 even at 90 degrees to it, but in RO well it different.