Accuracy
- Thread starter ViViD
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I disagree with the accuracy needing to be nerfed.
if there is going to be random shots for the rifles, no one would want to use them, as they would hardly kill anything over a certain distance. I use rifles just about all the time, and find i can rack up kills, and i die plenty of times too, usually because i havn't taken much cover. Also i find it hard to kill somepeople, so it's not always if i see them, they will die.
if there is going to be random shots for the rifles, no one would want to use them, as they would hardly kill anything over a certain distance. I use rifles just about all the time, and find i can rack up kills, and i die plenty of times too, usually because i havn't taken much cover. Also i find it hard to kill somepeople, so it's not always if i see them, they will die.
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The Specialists mod for Halflife 1 is the answer!Zath said:
http://www.specialistsmod.net/
Oh yeah: Keep the rifles as they are. Whenever I want to play game with long lasting firefights I play BiA.
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Strother, the battlefield is a dirty place and there's lots of muck and other nasty stuff flying around just waiting to taint your weapon. Besides, you can't clean your weapon in the middle of a heated firefight. Well, in the army we learned to disassemble and assemble a weapon within a few seconds, so basically it is possible, but I wouldn't do it unless my weapon became completely useless.
Also, many weapons wear with time, especially when they're used in battle. As time passes and more and more shots are fired (esp. with dirty weapons), they become much less accurate. A single grain of stone in the barrel can quickly warp the rifling of your barrel.
Most of you seem to think that a weapon always shoots where it's pointing. Not true, even if the weapon was otherwise perfect (the sights were accurately set, the weapon was in pristine condition, etc.). The person shooting the gun must brace himself to reduce recoil (yes, even when firing single shots) so that the bullet is not sent into the great blue yonder. It's not about what you see and how you point your barrel, it's all about position, position, and position. Oh and breathing, aiming and firing techniques. Twitch the trigger too quickly and the bullet will deviate a lot and won't hit a thing...
Now, can we assume that the avatar is always in a perfect firing position, calmly controlling his breathing and thus should hit exactly where the sights are? In a rugged battlefield? In the heat of the moment? Think again! I'm an expert shooter IRL (in the relative peace of a firing range), but I would not be able to hit a mere pixel at these ranges in the middle of a raging firefight! In RO I can.
Because firing position cannot be introduced into a FPS, a small amount of randomness is IMO justifiable. However, as things are, RO is now about shooting laser guns that look like WWII weapons. Not that I mind. I just wanted to reply to your posts about "artificially gimping" your accuracy.
As to the fear factor, how about the possibility of there actually being a screaming comrade next to you, and he would affect your accuracy just as a barrage does? Would that scenario attract you more?
And I'm not complaining. I know that with time I will learn to hit with pinpoint accuracy in RO just as I have learned to do in all the other games I've played. However, I'd rather have a realistic firefight than pixel-sharp accuracy to "pwn" with. It just ain't realistic (sic).
Also, many weapons wear with time, especially when they're used in battle. As time passes and more and more shots are fired (esp. with dirty weapons), they become much less accurate. A single grain of stone in the barrel can quickly warp the rifling of your barrel.
Most of you seem to think that a weapon always shoots where it's pointing. Not true, even if the weapon was otherwise perfect (the sights were accurately set, the weapon was in pristine condition, etc.). The person shooting the gun must brace himself to reduce recoil (yes, even when firing single shots) so that the bullet is not sent into the great blue yonder. It's not about what you see and how you point your barrel, it's all about position, position, and position. Oh and breathing, aiming and firing techniques. Twitch the trigger too quickly and the bullet will deviate a lot and won't hit a thing...
Now, can we assume that the avatar is always in a perfect firing position, calmly controlling his breathing and thus should hit exactly where the sights are? In a rugged battlefield? In the heat of the moment? Think again! I'm an expert shooter IRL (in the relative peace of a firing range), but I would not be able to hit a mere pixel at these ranges in the middle of a raging firefight! In RO I can.
Because firing position cannot be introduced into a FPS, a small amount of randomness is IMO justifiable. However, as things are, RO is now about shooting laser guns that look like WWII weapons. Not that I mind. I just wanted to reply to your posts about "artificially gimping" your accuracy.
As to the fear factor, how about the possibility of there actually being a screaming comrade next to you, and he would affect your accuracy just as a barrage does? Would that scenario attract you more?
And I'm not complaining. I know that with time I will learn to hit with pinpoint accuracy in RO just as I have learned to do in all the other games I've played. However, I'd rather have a realistic firefight than pixel-sharp accuracy to "pwn" with. It just ain't realistic (sic).
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1.AR[GSC]=[ENIGMA]=
Grizzled Veteran
Dunno about artificially nerfing the accuracy...
Played / still playing Americas Army from Sept 2002 onwards, the artificial nerfing of accuracy in there really pi**ed one off. At times one had the feeling of having more luck in winning the lottery that to hit that op4 some 50m ahead. AA does this with a random hit cone and insta-hit, not realtime ballistics. The fact that RO has the latter is very refreshing!
Throughout the last 3.5 years we've (1.AR) tried all games out there, be it BiA/ BF/BF2/BF1942/DoD/CoD/CoD2 and whatnot and everytime we came back to AA:SF. Features that the AA:SF community wants such as resting weapon whenever possible on whatever feasible, realtime ballistics, !!!VEHICLES!!! etc. are probably still 1-2 years away with AA:SF, and, frankly, most of us are getting tired of this. So, if RO is going to be available in stores anytime SOON in EUROPE/GERMANY (enough of a hint? I can do more if enough demand...), a lot more people that I know of playing AA:SF still will either completely switch to RO or at least buy it. One main reason ARE the real-time ballistics. You hit where you aim, after taking bullet drop into consideration. No more gambling, no more pumping one or even two clips w/ IS into an op4 and developing serveral stages of rage all the way to aneurism on the grounds of that damn hit cone BS.
Skill / Learning is the deciding factor once again, not LUCK - and thats f*cking A !
btw thetanksneedfixingokillshutupnow
Played / still playing Americas Army from Sept 2002 onwards, the artificial nerfing of accuracy in there really pi**ed one off. At times one had the feeling of having more luck in winning the lottery that to hit that op4 some 50m ahead. AA does this with a random hit cone and insta-hit, not realtime ballistics. The fact that RO has the latter is very refreshing!
Throughout the last 3.5 years we've (1.AR) tried all games out there, be it BiA/ BF/BF2/BF1942/DoD/CoD/CoD2 and whatnot and everytime we came back to AA:SF. Features that the AA:SF community wants such as resting weapon whenever possible on whatever feasible, realtime ballistics, !!!VEHICLES!!! etc. are probably still 1-2 years away with AA:SF, and, frankly, most of us are getting tired of this. So, if RO is going to be available in stores anytime SOON in EUROPE/GERMANY (enough of a hint? I can do more if enough demand...), a lot more people that I know of playing AA:SF still will either completely switch to RO or at least buy it. One main reason ARE the real-time ballistics. You hit where you aim, after taking bullet drop into consideration. No more gambling, no more pumping one or even two clips w/ IS into an op4 and developing serveral stages of rage all the way to aneurism on the grounds of that damn hit cone BS.
Skill / Learning is the deciding factor once again, not LUCK - and thats f*cking A !
btw thetanksneedfixingokillshutupnow
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QFT...a lot of people here thinks that all other FPS are crap...when they're just as funDroog said:
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One of the thing I've noticed, both from shooting and being shot at perspective, is that people want to get from one point to the next in straight lines.
If you run in a straight line on any battlefield you will get shot.
People need to start weaving eratically and look for cover at short intervals. Also it helps to identify where the enemy might be shooting from!
I spent the evening sniping lastnight (I'm not normally a sniper), and I learnt a lot about movement in RO.
The people who survived once I had my eye in are the ones who actually tried to make it difficult for me to hit.
Another thing is that if you go to cover and the look up at the point of cover where you entered, expect to get a bullet between the eyes.
This game after all is based on realism!
If you run in a straight line on any battlefield you will get shot.
People need to start weaving eratically and look for cover at short intervals. Also it helps to identify where the enemy might be shooting from!
I spent the evening sniping lastnight (I'm not normally a sniper), and I learnt a lot about movement in RO.
The people who survived once I had my eye in are the ones who actually tried to make it difficult for me to hit.
Another thing is that if you go to cover and the look up at the point of cover where you entered, expect to get a bullet between the eyes.
This game after all is based on realism!
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[tR]Mad Mac said:
ditto. had some awesome long range, and mid-range firefights on Koenigsplatz this past weekend. some, I went through 3 ammo clips shooting at the same 2 or 3 dudes waaaay off in the distance.
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Dont punish skilled players. If you do, they will move on & find another game to excel at!!!
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![[TW]DrGuppy](/data/avatars/s/0/171.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Here's a simple accuracy test. Take 10 players with rifles on each team in a trench 200 meters away from eachother. See how long the firefight lasts. My guess is that it will be significantly shorter than in real life.
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D3terioNation said:
That's what about 35 of use did when DoD:S came out. It made the guns so random that if you jumped out on a first time player he was just as likely to hit you as you were to hit him. We all quit and moved to RO. Nothing is more frustrating than to be killed by a player with no real idea of what they are doing just because his gun decided to let the bullets travel in a straight path while you gun decided it was better to shoot the walls and flowerpots all around him.
I know you can't see it, but I am in fact giving the entire DoD dev team the finger right now.
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At the moment RO is unique in the fact that there is not skill cap, and alot of us (espetially me) like the engaging chalenge that that provides for us. If you feel that something is unfair then you should just practice to get better. Having no skill cap is THE key feature of ROO and something that not everyone will like. Honestly I think that until your aim gets to be "super good" you havent even begun to see what the game can offer. If you are getting killed quickly by aimed fire thats becuase your team isnt helping you by giving covering fire an flanking. IRL the objective is to avoid firefights since they are the quickest way to die.
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Former DOD/S player here as well, went back a couple weeks ago and almost puked. Bad idea. O yeah, why exactly did they give the punching ability to the SMGers?????? As if they were not deadly enough at close range with 30 rounds vs a little rifle that had nothing but ironsights lol. Pathetic little unbalanced shootem up game.
Vonreuter I fire rifle as well. You are stating facts about guns wearing down and guns getting dirty from the battlefield, but in this game it is impossible to model that. From what I think the soldiers in the game have cleaned their weapon before the battle so when you start playing your rifle is the best its going to get, and you arn't going to stay alive long enough to see it get dirty or worn down. No one in their right mind is going to want to stop shooting sit behind a a tree and clear their gun just so they can shoot. Also not everyone is affected by a nearby comrade screaming, you might care for him, you might not, if you do you might feel the pressure and your adrenaline kicks in and you fight harder to protect him or get revenge. If your an experienced soldier you have learned to block that out.
Maybe when they make a MMORPG they could feature in the gun cleanings and such and they could also add in the screaming comrade, if you have developed a relationship with that man and his pain tolerance level is low he will be a screamer when he is dieing. If you have developed a relationship you could get affected by it, but it depends on your experience level and or your mentally toughness level. But thats for another thread and basically you just CAN'T implement that into this game any logical way.
Vonreuter I fire rifle as well. You are stating facts about guns wearing down and guns getting dirty from the battlefield, but in this game it is impossible to model that. From what I think the soldiers in the game have cleaned their weapon before the battle so when you start playing your rifle is the best its going to get, and you arn't going to stay alive long enough to see it get dirty or worn down. No one in their right mind is going to want to stop shooting sit behind a a tree and clear their gun just so they can shoot. Also not everyone is affected by a nearby comrade screaming, you might care for him, you might not, if you do you might feel the pressure and your adrenaline kicks in and you fight harder to protect him or get revenge. If your an experienced soldier you have learned to block that out.
Maybe when they make a MMORPG they could feature in the gun cleanings and such and they could also add in the screaming comrade, if you have developed a relationship with that man and his pain tolerance level is low he will be a screamer when he is dieing. If you have developed a relationship you could get affected by it, but it depends on your experience level and or your mentally toughness level. But thats for another thread and basically you just CAN'T implement that into this game any logical way.
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I do love the "no skill cap" as it is called in RO:O. I tend to be in the top scores, (and not just for being a "cap-whore") but I still feel challenged with each fight.
Much different from, say, COD. I'd grab a Thompson, run around corners, hold LMB, and enemies would die. I didn't really know why or how.
Much different from, say, COD. I'd grab a Thompson, run around corners, hold LMB, and enemies would die. I didn't really know why or how.
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I love the accuracy. I'd be against 'nerfing' the rifles. However to muddle things slightly and contribute to this thread hows about I put out the following compromises (based on 'reality' if justified by y'all reality nuts, of course, and I haven't even begun to think how these could affect overall balance)
Spend x amount of time in dirt (crawling), get y% chance of something getting in your barrel which may or may not result in z% maximum accuracy. (I have never fired a 'dirty gun' - no idea what it would do)
Lose x amount of friendlies within y radius of yourself and incur z% 'shakes' when reloading which could result in slightly slower reload or dropped ammunition. (Likewise I have never had my friends die around me all at once - no idea what it would do)
I think the game is fine as-is in regard to accuracy.. Then again I also happen to believe that the reality of getting some regular competition going (get a season done) teaches a bunch of lessons and sheds light on issues that pubbing/scrimming alone won't do..
Spend x amount of time in dirt (crawling), get y% chance of something getting in your barrel which may or may not result in z% maximum accuracy. (I have never fired a 'dirty gun' - no idea what it would do)
Lose x amount of friendlies within y radius of yourself and incur z% 'shakes' when reloading which could result in slightly slower reload or dropped ammunition. (Likewise I have never had my friends die around me all at once - no idea what it would do)
I think the game is fine as-is in regard to accuracy.. Then again I also happen to believe that the reality of getting some regular competition going (get a season done) teaches a bunch of lessons and sheds light on issues that pubbing/scrimming alone won't do..
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I think the only realisitic way to off set this would be to have different sight pictures. By this I mean making Zer do 4 more models for each weapon with different looking sight arrangements. That might help.
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