Su-76 should be thin-skinned...

[Helmut_AUT]

...I couldn't belive it when some people mentioned it before, but tonight against Bots I found it to be true:

The superstructure on the Su-76 will repeatly bounce off 75mm and 88mm shells. At less than 200 meters.

No way. That's about 10mm of armor there, at most 30mm. No matter what the angle, a plate will not stop a shell three times it's diameter.

Please look into this - if the underlying calculations are the same this may also point to other problems with armor penetration.

 

[wokelly]

The Russian tank crews called the SU-76 the "*****" because it was such a worthless tank. Open top and rear, thin armor on top of that.

 

[Helmut_AUT]

Exactly.

It's the same as a Marder or Wespe - thin skinned tank hunter/artillery piece meant as a mobile AT Gun or self propelled gun. It was never intended for a direct exchange of blows with any tank gun.

When an 88mm projectile hits the superstructure from 200meters, chances are it would go straight trough, kill the gunner or driver. Lots of blast shock, lots of debris.

 

[prinz eugen]

thanks for pointing this out.... just had the same expr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hit the upper, side at just a little bit of an angle and the 88mm shell bounced right off... i think there's just way too much deflection going on.... im trying to get a 90 degree shot and see what happens.... but havent been able to arrange it yet....

 

[Zbojnik]

The Russians called the SU-76 "suchka" which means little ***** or "Golozhopiy Ferdinand" which means naked ass Ferdinand. However the SU-76 did have an advantage. The open compartment is highly vulnerable to rifle fire and hand grenades it very often saves crew's lives when hit by a Panzerfaust/Panzerschreck since they can clear out very fast. For a closed vehicle crew a hit with a Panzerfaust like projectile was usually imminent death.

 

[CaptRanger]

The Russians called the SU-76 "suchka" which means little ***** or "Golozhopiy Ferdinand" which means naked ass Ferdinand. However the SU-76 did have an advantage. The open compartment is highly vulnerable to rifle fire and hand grenades it very often saves crew's lives when hit by a Panzerfaust/Panzerschreck since they can clear out very fast. For a closed vehicle crew a hit with a Panzerfaust like projectile was usually imminent death.

So it's one advantage in combat is that it's crew can get away from it quickly? lol, I'd hate to be assigned to that heap!

 

[Drude]

...I couldn't belive it when some people mentioned it before, but tonight against Bots I found it to be true:

The superstructure on the Su-76 will repeatly bounce off 75mm and 88mm shells. At less than 200 meters.

No way. That's about 10mm of armor there, at most 30mm. No matter what the angle, a plate will not stop a shell three times it's diameter.

Please look into this - if the underlying calculations are the same this may also point to other problems with armor penetration.

I have always killed SU-76 with one shot.

I don't know what are you talking about.

 

[MkH^]

The last time I was playing Barashka using the SU-76, Tiger grenades were bouncing left and right off it. I took out a StuG, Tiger and PzIV in a direct engagement over the frozen river, until some pesky Panzerfaust guy sneaked behind me. The sloped armor has way too much effect on glancing the projectiles, this has been proved with T-60 and T-34 too, both way more powerful than their supposed German superiors - Panzer III and Tiger.

 

[Jack]

Yeah I hate to say it but the more I play with the armor the more it is evident that something is f*cked.


I have seen 88 shots bouncing off the SU-76 as well.

Also, just the other night, I was in a Panzer III, hit a T-60 dead on the mantlet from <100 meters, and the shot bounces off.

Note that the mantlet is exactly 90 degrees, and he was facing me dead on, and yet the shot bounces off....meanwhile the 20mm shots from his cannon start penetrating the frontal plate of the Panzer III confused and the "health" starts going from White, to Yellow, to Red, then I blow up. It's just simply ridiculous looking, and not realistic at all.


Somwhere along the line the armor penetration calculations got messed up.


EDIT: Don't get me wrong, slope is very important, but something is just not right: the superstructure of the SU-76 is not what you would consider to be heavily sloped by any stretch.

Besides, if such thin-skinned and under-gunned vehicles as the T-60 and SU-76 were this effective in real life, the Germans would have been stopped in July 1941.....T-60s repeatedly owning Mk. IIIs is just not what was happening.

 

[prinz eugen]

yup... its too bad the germans dont get any pkw lls--so they have a fighting chance.... in this game the only thing that makes one tank diff. from another is gun traverse and reload speed... even sloped armour is not all that important--the t34 and kvs dont have much of an edge against pkw lll and pkw lV f1 either....

 

[Harry S. Truman]

Yeah I hate to say it but the more I play with the armor the more it is evident that something is f*cked.


I have seen 88 shots bouncing off the SU-76 as well.

Also, just the other night, I was in a Panzer III, hit a T-60 dead on the mantlet from <100 meters, and the shot bounces off.

Note that the mantlet is exactly 90 degrees, and he was facing me dead on, and yet the shot bounces off....meanwhile the 20mm shots from his cannon start penetrating the frontal plate of the Panzer III confused and the "health" starts going from White, to Yellow, to Red, then I blow up. It's just simply ridiculous looking, and not realistic at all.


Somwhere along the line the armor penetration calculations got messed up.


EDIT: Don't get me wrong, slope is very important, but something is just not right: the superstructure of the SU-76 is not what you would consider to be heavily sloped by any stretch.

Besides, if such thin-skinned and under-gunned vehicles as the T-60 and SU-76 were this effective in real life, the Germans would have been stopped in July 1941.....T-60s repeatedly owning Mk. IIIs is just not what was happening.

I've seen all these repeated numerous time. Something is wrong.

 

[[-I-]Nutcruncher]

I've consistantly pulled up behind a Tiger or Panther at less than 10m in a T-34, put a round directly into its arse, only to have it ricochet.

 

[Sichartshofen]

I've seen all these repeated numerous time. Something is wrong.

Same here. The other day on Barashka I had a 88mm round bounce off the gun plate. There is no way in hell the SU-76 can deflect an 88mm AP round or anything short of a 37mm KwK. The Russians didn't nickname it Suka for nothing.

It all comes down to what we know.

- We all know the the tank damage system is ****ed up. 2 shot arcade damage. In other words CoD:UO. That is really hard for me to type because I hate that game.

- The slopping armor system is horribly over exagerated. T60's pathetic 15mm armored turret deflecting 75mm StuG-III rounds? Yeah right.

- T60 cannon is over powered. 20mm rounds piercing 50-70mm of armor.

- 88mm cannon is nerfed. Rounds bouncing off the SU76 and T34 at extremely close ranges.

I never complained about anything in the mod, because it was free. But now that excuse doesn't apply anymore.

 

[Phoenix-D]

You aren't comparing caliber and penetration directly there, are you? They're related but *not* the same.

But yeah, the tank damage modeling is a bit off.

 

[daschewy]

Hull Front (Upper) :25mm @ 30

 

[1.AR[GSC]=[ENIGMA]=]

You aren't comparing caliber and penetration directly there, are you? They're related but *not* the same.

But yeah, the tank damage modeling is a bit off.

No, he's, though somewhat indirect, talking about "Overmatching", which I too think is not really all that hot in-game (88mm v. BA-64 = *PING* anyone? Bueller?..Bueller?.. )

 

[Zbojnik]

Speaking of 88mm vs. BA-64 how in god's name does a T-34 deflect a rear shot from less than 50m. from a Tiger I? Damn are the Russian tanks good. If Germany had 10 T-34's when Operation Barbarossa started they would have won within a week!

 

[[RWTD]Ghost[BCthc]]

Speaking of 88mm vs. BA-64 how in god's name does a T-34 deflect a rear shot from less than 50m. from a Tiger I? Damn are the Russian tanks good. If Germany had 10 T-34's when Operation Barbarossa started they would have won within a week!

haha, nice

 

[DudeWheresMyTank]

Same here. The other day on Barashka I had a 88mm round bounce off the gun plate. There is no way in hell the SU-76 can deflect an 88mm AP round or anything short of a 37mm KwK. The Russians didn't nickname it Suka for nothing.

It all comes down to what we know.

- We all know the the tank damage system is ****ed up. 2 shot arcade damage. In other words CoD:UO. That is really hard for me to type because I hate that game.

- The slopping armor system is horribly over exagerated. T60's pathetic 15mm armored turret deflecting 75mm StuG-III rounds? Yeah right.

- T60 cannon is over powered. 20mm rounds piercing 50-70mm of armor.

- 88mm cannon is nerfed. Rounds bouncing off the SU76 and T34 at extremely close ranges.

I never complained about anything in the mod, because it was free. But now that excuse doesn't apply anymore.

yeah these things really bug me, and also the flashing objectives and enemy bar. these things need to be changed. worst is how badly the t-60 owns the panzer III in hedgehog. it can kill it from the front for christ sakes

 

[Zombie Dictator]

The funniest (and worst) thing about the SU-76 is when you hit it and the engine catches on fire. You see this open topped tank with the crew compartment on fire driving around like it's nothing. I mean, come on. This tank should be killed in pretty much 1 hit anywhere. The idea that the crew is being incinerated alive but still casually driving around is pretty messed up.

The more I play this game, the more I think they need to re-do the tank damage system from scratch. This system is just, as mentioned above, totally unrealistic arcade trash. Hitting a 10mm armor flank of a SU-76 with a 75mm high velocity P4 cannon and having it turn around and hit you. Come on, now.

As much as I enjoy red orchestra, it's the last game I bought since Battlefield 2, and I'm starting to have the same regrets buying it in that I should have waited a year until it was fixed.