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Squad RO and Teamwarfare League

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#61
Succubus|TWL said:
As I stated before, we do have people who know the game quite well (even better than you do, believe it or not) who we talk to when setting up our ladders and other offerings.
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I doubt. This 5on5 is enough to show up it. Even 1on1 would be more thrilling and interesting than 5on5 and like Steven and co. said we've played hundreds of matches and that's not ripped from nowhere that 5on5 either 6on6 not working quite well. Well but good luck for your try. No offence but even those "newbs"(Who are wanting this smaller ladder) who haven't played a single match gonna regognize after a small time they'r not working either.

Succubus|TWL said:
I realize that you love Clanbase but really, you've said what you wanted to say and I feel like all you're doing is trying to muddy TWL's good name with your constant negativity.
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Actually this is having nothing to do with "I'm loving clanbase" either "muddying your name" counterway it shows up you've got a tunnel vision with me after I brought this question here. Infact I'm liking ro:ladder much more than any else of these since it's working and having good rules and ppl who _REALLY_ know what's RO and matching about. But since scene is getting way bigger I understand ro:ladders resources aren't enough and we really need a bigger and more sophisticated ladder system to keep matching working and interesting in bigger scale. It's a pity when there's ppl who'r having knowledge and ppl who'r too blown up to listen them. ie. if you've asked _ANY_ of ro:ladders folks they would have said 5on5 not gonna work for sure.

This all started from 1) I would like to see major support at CB cos it's bigger 2) I wonder what kinda of ladders there would be and who would run them. But then this 5on5 were kinda a tip of the iceberg. It really really decreased your credibility about "knowing RO things". For CS this 5on5 is optimal match size and when we'r comparing CS to RO it's having like 10 times smaller maps. So something should tick in head when thinking is 5on5 gonna work with RO?

It's a good thing when we'r now having a big ladder system with fancy things, but it would be shame if it would be ran by ignorants. I want to remind this isn't personal I'm just one concerned veteran RO player.
 
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#63
Succubus|TWL said:
Only time will tell if it will work or not. As I stated before, we do have people who know the game quite well (even better than you do, believe it or not)
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Can you give us any insight on what RO clans and what people with previous Redorchestra ladder experience you've asked, like admins etc?

So far i've never heard a clan say "we want 5v5 matches", and i can pretty much say that i've played against every european mod clan a few times :\. On the mod 8v8 was probably the best amount of players for the maps. 5v5 is just running in circles capwhoring. It would only work on linear maps and small city maps. Even maps like warsaw koitos and koningsberg would be too small to have real FUN with 5v5.
 
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#64
Murhis & Zetsumei - I'd just like to say that we're not in any way saying that you should join our 5v5 ladders. The reason we created those was because the community asked for them in our forums, and as we are trying to make our ladders as community friendly as we can, we added the 5v5. If any teams feel they don't want to play on a 5v5 ladder then we won't force you too. We only have those there for the people that do want to play 5v5. For the clans that much rather have larger scaled ladders, such as 8v8 and 12v12 we have those too. With that said, we are allways open for suggestions about rules and ladders, to make TWL a place where every team can feel at home. So if you do have a question or suggestion, please post it in our forums or e-mail it to one of the admins, as we will allways appreciate community input.
 
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#65
The fact that TWL is getting involved in RO is a positive one for many reasons. The biggest one is that they brought it to the attention to many gamers who were playing and competing in thier ladders with other games.
Many of us that are TWL veterans but new to RO will compete in the TWL ladders. If the community grows we can combine leagues or what have you. But there is no doubt that a lot of clans and players have started to play this game ONLY because of TWLs involvement.

Big props to Succubus for being a great voice for the TWL community!!
 
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#66
TWL|Muisje^ said:
The reason we created those was because the community asked for them in our forums, and as we are trying to make our ladders as community friendly as we can, we added the 5v5.
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So "community" is 11 posts and 94 views?

This quote shows also this huge knowledge

"While 5v5 is a better bet than 12v12, I think that right now we have to focus on the ladders we have available. There are only about 13 clans registered for the 8v8...hopefully this number will increase noticeably within the next month - but this deserves the most attention. If these ladders don't have a big following the first few months, it could hurt competition potential later on.

You can probably get the 13 or so unique clans who have signed up for RO ladders to join a 5v5 one here. By publicizing to the max anywhere RO gamers flock, increasing the 8v8, 12v12 ladders' popularity and opening a 5v5 is possible.

Does anyone feel like right now is a suitable time to add a third ladder?"

"yea i agree i 5v5 ladder would be better to start out with till more people start to play an clans get bigger.."

http://www.teamwarfare.com/forums/showthread.asp?forumid=82&threadid=297073

Sorry but I cant not to laugh about this when some "I haven't played a single match" stating 5on5 is better than 12on12 :D
 
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#67
i personally wouldn't call 8v8 large scaled battled :p, but i guess thats me.

And all i was asking was what players that know the clanplay segment for red orchestra more than murhis (or any other clan i've ever seen for red orchestra myself). I can imagine "alot" of people wanting 5v5 matches and can see that you guys added it because of that. But i'd imagine most of those people to not have been in the RO clanning community for long to actually try out the maps with those player counts in competive matches. Afcourse i speak for myself, but i can point to alot of people that would most likely agree with murhis on this matter.
 
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#68
Murhis.

This is an established community that is adding a game where only a small portion of members have recognized a really good game and want to build up the involvement. The game needs some additional, if perhaps unorthodox, adjustments to help that community grow and become competitive. yes, it is obvious that those players are new to the game. However, they are not new to FPS ladder competition. They have a clan base that may be too small to move into a new game this quickly. Getting involved in a smaller ladder will help these teams recruit and build this community.

The TWL community is a great community because it allows for multiple game involvement. Just because you stop playing COD:UO or something doesn't mean you lose your community involvement.
 
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#69
murhis said:
So "community" is 11 posts and 94 views?

This quote shows also this huge knowledge

"While 5v5 is a better bet than 12v12, I think that right now we have to focus on the ladders we have available. There are only about 13 clans registered for the 8v8...hopefully this number will increase noticeably within the next month - but this deserves the most attention. If these ladders don't have a big following the first few months, it could hurt competition potential later on.

You can probably get the 13 or so unique clans who have signed up for RO ladders to join a 5v5 one here. By publicizing to the max anywhere RO gamers flock, increasing the 8v8, 12v12 ladders' popularity and opening a 5v5 is possible.

Does anyone feel like right now is a suitable time to add a third ladder?"
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This was my post and I will back it up. I was not worried about whether 5v5 would work well with the maps (you will see my reasoning in the next paragraph), but whether clans would sign up to try it. Not knowing TWL's plans, I assumed TWL would focus primarily on getting more teams to sign up for the ladders it already had at the time. I was wrong.

I'm not worried about whether all the maps in RO work with a smaller size like 5v5. They do not all work effectively. But, have you guys forgotten that we can pick the maps we find work best with 10 players on the map? Additionally, people can create new maps tailored to fit a 5v5 ladder's needs.

I respect those of you who say that 5v5 won't work because you've experienced the failure of trying to use fewer players in large maps. You should know, however, that TWL 1) is willing to try different things from other competition leagues and 2) will take custom made maps, or exclude certain maps that come with the game from match play should the community agree to do so.

This discussion seems to be going in circles between those who have seen 5v5 fail from experience, and those who support TWL's response to its RO community. I say that while some maps may not work well with 5v5, TWL's new 5v5 ladders can still work.
 
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#71
Once again, we are not in any way traying to force anyone into playing the 5v5 ladders, as we have 8v8 and 12v12 ladders as well for teams that don't want to play in the 5v5.

I can understand that veteran players express their concerns over the fact that 5v5 matches did not work out when they were first tried. But how can we as a community based ladder say that we won't listen to our community and don't create a 5v5 ladder if a number of people asked for it with reasonable arguments.

So far a number of teams has signed up for the NA 5v5 ladder, and we can allways look at how it goes, and listen to what the teams that are playing on it have to say. If they believe that certain rules should be adjusted to make the 5v5 better playable, then we will look into how to change the rules to do make it better. This is how we're allways trying to work.
 
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#72
There's not much I can say that Muisje hasn't already. I don't understand why there is such focus on our 5v5 ladder when we have an 8v8 and 12v12 ladder as well to make the players who prefer those happy. The point is, we listen to the community, if players are finding that 5v5 Infantry isn't working then we can shut it down. We encourage input and while I hear you guys saying that it hasn't worked in the past, we would like to at least give it a try now. I hope that we will have some mappers creating smaller maps which would be a great addition to smaller competitions.

Oh and JCoquillion, thanks for supporting us so much in all of this. Your input has been a great help!
 
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#73
Fact is, people play 4vs4 and the like in games that arent really meant for it, because its much easier to arrange for frequent clanwars in this way.

Also, some people prefer this type of game because one kill/death makes much more impact.

I dont like this gamemode, but im certainly not going to flame TWL for putting up a ladder at their members request.
 
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#75
Don't pay much attention to murhis - he's from Finland you see... Drinking too much vodka in the sauna does have it's consequences. :rolleyes:

Seriously now, it's great that TWL seems so eager to help RO get established. A CB-ladder would of course by nice too but that really doesn't have anything to do with TWL. The more the merrier, and may the best ladder get the most teams.
 
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#76
At TWL we are always looking for community input. I am interested to know why more teams have not signed up. I know that for the EU teams there are quite a few options but it seems that they are more limited for NA teams, so why not TWL? Is there something we can do to make things better? Have you see our rules and the way our ladders work? Do you have questions? Please if you don't mind take a few minutes to reply here or toss me an email at [email protected] We want to see RO have a long career in the competition community but can't do that without your help.

Thanks in advance guys! :) Oh and as an aside, if you signed up but haven't become active yet for whatever reason, try to pop over and toss up a challenge!
 
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#77
Our clan's NA Division switched over from RO:Ladder to TWL. We made the switch because of the pathetic state of NA clan activity on RO:Ladder. There were approximately 4 active clans during the last days of the mod, now in RO:Ostfront there are less! Playing the same teams over and over got really old.

We checked out TWL and liked the fact that it was an established community with a good set of rules and awesome admins. The admins help whenever you need it, are incredibly active, and constantly look to the community for ways to better their ladders.

We have since played 2 matches (1 was a 5v5 and it worked just fine) and our third is coming up soon. There are 10-15 teams on the ladders and the system TWL employs is a god-send after playing on RO:Ladder. Matches no longer take 2 hours, there is a built in system for communications between clan leaders, clearly defined rules as far as sever selection and match conduct.

I would say TWL is a great place to play competitively in RO, and probably most other games. Our clan has been extremely pleased thus far, and I suspect we will continue to be so. I would encourage any clan that hasn't signed up there to do so because, in my opinion, it offers the best place for competitive clan play in RO.
 
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