# of Autos and Semi Autos

[Aurien]

You sir are completely missing the point. It is a about general gameplay improvements for all by reducing the numbers of semis and autos. To create more firefights and cautiously moving squads.

PS: Any half-decent player can get into top 5 as bolt so please stop this arrogant way and try to read and understand before posting.
Thank you

So the OP mentions firefights and cautiously moving squads as for why they should be lowered? No he doesn

 

[Golf33]

Why not head over to this thread about class loadouts, and have a vote:

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=71201

 

[DarkHunt3r]

I can't decide if this is a i wanna use a bolt but getting my *** handed to me thread, or a slow the game down because it is to fast for me thread.

Firstly this game is not and never will be RO:OST, it is RO:HoS, it is based on the battle for Stalingrad which was a predominately CQB engagement and there were a lot of automatic weapons available, and for the most part is reasonably historically accurate (well apart from the AVT and MKB) but due to the constraint of the game, the size of the conflict zones in the maps the benefits of the Auto and Semi Auto far outweigh the bolt only rifles as would happen in real life.

I also think that due to nearly all servers (ours included) turn off the pistol except for Commander, Sniper and MG that this deters more people from using the bolt only rifle. As much as people here say they like to run around clearing with a bayonet, if you come against me with a bayonet and I have an SMG, you will die, even when someone stabs me with a bayonet, 9 times out of a 10 I am able to kill them before I die. Now all maps have capture points that are internal, you have to go into a building at least twice on each map to capture all the zones, if you have a bolt this is difficult.

The bolt is my favourite weapon, especially the Mosin (I hate the sight on the Kar once you get it to level 50) But I am also a proactive player, I like to capture the zones, and so I generally forego the bolt in favour of a weapon that allows me to do this, if I had a pistol though, I would definitely use the bolt all the time. I guess you can use the historically accurate argument against the rifleman having a pistol, but then if it is historical accuracy you want, stop complaining about all the automatics because they were there in bucket loads in Stalingrad, besides a veteran of battle would of acquired a pistol anyway if he survived long enough.

The game balance favours Automatic and Semi Auto weapons, if you want balance change the maps, of give the rifleman a pistol, but people wont nerf themselves just so you can play the way that YOU want, so that yo can get more kills with a bolt, it aint going to happen and complaining here wont change it either

 

[Piscator]

So the OP mentions firefights and cautiously moving squads as for why they should be lowered? No he doesn’t, so how about a tall glass of shut the **** up. And you can’t tell me that people really believe that if you force people to use bolt actions squad movements will magically appear? And firefights, a large exchange of bullets between two sides (also known as a battle), already happen in this game. That would be each round of a map.

If people want they can make a server with large amounts of bolt action rifles, that option was added. Before we get the “my server won’t be ranked and no one will join” comeback, if more bolt actions was what the majority of the community wanted there should be no problem filling up that server.

Well you are certainly not mature enough for this type of gameplay or understanding the OP and your language proofs this. Enough said, I just wanted to tell you that your attitude is not appreciated here on these forums and I did.

 

[Nikita]

Allright, let's clear up a thing or two about bolts.

Bolt-actions are far from underpowered--they have excellent stopping power and accuracy, they are more user-friendly than they ever were in Ostfront, and the bayonet is quite deadly.

At the current moment, though, people are picking specific TEAM-oriented roles like machine gunner, squad leader, and engineer solely for the automatic weapon. A squad leader should never die with his smoke grenade still on him (unless their team is defending on that map), and an Engineer on the attacking team should never die with their satchel unused unless they were shot on the way to the objective.

I join rounds on Pavlov's House where German tanks are camping everywhere, but the Soviet Engineers haven't blown a single obstacle or door and are running around in Zab's or Voyentenbug ignoring the tanks completely. Sometimes I see BOTH the satchel charges AND the anti-tank grenades thrown away in spawn.

I see squad leaders hundreds of yards behind enemy lines, on their bellies sniping with their semi-autos or rampaging in close-quarters with their SMG or even their pistol.

I blame this partially on the unlock system, which hardly promotes team play over individual play and incentivizes using your C96 or Nagant revolver as a primary weapon and your MG34 as an assault rifle.

But also, removing some of the uneccesary roles carrying semiautomatic or automatic weapons will reduce this kind of behavior. Why? Often people joining a server are confronted with the role selection screen, with the option of being a squad leader (several empty slots), a machine gunner (1 empty slot), or a bolt-action. Wanting the submachine gun or semiautomatic rifle, they pick squad leader and play out the entire round without issuing a single order, spawning a single teammate, or throwing a single smoke grenade. Because of play like this, four or five squad leaders are simply NOT necessary. Four machine guns are debatable.

In the case of the Engineer, even if he wants to assist the team, he is still forced to use an SMG even on absurdly open maps like Fallen Fighters. In cases like those, he might willingly pick a bolt-action rifle. That's more of a gameplay issue.

Finally, the advantage of slightly reducing the number of semi-autos, MGs, and SMGs is that you get a more realistic set of equipment for each team. That may matter to some people more than others, but it's quite indisputable that the main shoulder arm of the Soviet Red Army wasn't the SVT-40, and that the primary assault weapon of the Werhmacht wasn't the MG34.

Besides, if you love using SMGs, why complain about there being more bolts around? It means that when you do get your SMG, your relative power has increased as a whole. It also means that getting an SMG or semi-auto becomes something a little more special--you feel more obligated to use it well in support of the team, since you are more unique and combat effective than the bolt-action riflemen in your platoon.:IS2:

Teamplay, realism, and less Rambo-ing behind enemy lines. Sound good?

 

[SGT Steiner]

SEMI and SMGs

SEMI and SMGs

remove ALL but 1 of the SMGs and that should be allocated to the over all commander slot, an everyday german or russian soldier didnt have them they had box standard German kar98 or Russians a Nagant (If they were lucky lol), for me nothin more frustrating than trying to assault a house or building with 3 smgs and semi autos inside POINTLESS!. I believe the russians used svt as snipers fair enough i can live with that in the game as for the g41, you should also be allowed to remove bayonet if not wanting it but personaly nothing better than a good ol bayonet charge "encouraged" by the Commissar i believe the russians had them fixed permanantly and also used soft hats because it was cowardice to use a helmet!!

 

[derbefrier]

Well you are certainly not mature enough for this type of gameplay or understanding the OP and your language proofs this. Enough said, I just wanted to tell you that your attitude is not appreciated here on these forums and I did.

all the OP did was post some numbers, he left it up to us to decide what he meant by that. i happen to think hes right the option to have a bunch of bolts is there but no one uses it there are always plenty of open bolt slots in any server , if thats what the majority of players wanted it would happen on its own. you guys have just gotten to a point were you believe your own BS taking a couple more autos out the game is not going to have this dramatic effect on gameplay you seem to think it will. I think what TWI did was enough if you want less autos than that your going to have to do it yourself with mutators or use the tools TWI have given you. this guys has a point if it was truly what the community wanted it would have already happened on its own.

 

[Witzig]

Allright, let's clear up a thing or two about bolts.

Bolt-actions are far from underpowered--they have excellent stopping power and accuracy, they are more user-friendly than they ever were in Ostfront, and the bayonet is quite deadly.

Yeah and still in Ostfront people did prefer the SMGs on close quarter Maps, which currently almost all HoS Maps fit into cause of the realistic FoV Change (aka Zoom).

At the current moment, though, people are picking specific TEAM-oriented roles like machine gunner, squad leader, and engineer solely for the automatic weapon. A squad leader should never die with his smoke grenade still on him (unless their team is defending on that map), and an Engineer on the attacking team should never die with their satchel unused unless they were shot on the way to the objective.

I join rounds on Pavlov's House where German tanks are camping everywhere, but the Soviet Engineers haven't blown a single obstacle or door and are running around in Zab's or Voyentenbug ignoring the tanks completely. Sometimes I see BOTH the satchel charges AND the anti-tank grenades thrown away in spawn.

Same problem we had in Ostfront, can only be "solved" by giving the Special Classes Bolt + Pistol only. Not a good solution imho.

I see squad leaders hundreds of yards behind enemy lines, on their bellies sniping with their semi-autos or rampaging in close-quarters with their SMG or even their pistol.

I blame this partially on the unlock system, which hardly promotes team play over individual play and incentivizes using your C96 or Nagant revolver as a primary weapon and your MG34 as an assault rifle.

Well if you ever want to use a Nagant Revolver with Silencer or the C96 with Stock etc. you have to use them cause they got rediculous Kill point requirements (considering most of the unlock system is rediculous this is fitting right in).

But also, removing some of the uneccesary roles carrying semiautomatic or automatic weapons will reduce this kind of behavior. Why? Often people joining a server are confronted with the role selection screen, with the option of being a squad leader (several empty slots), a machine gunner (1 empty slot), or a bolt-action. Wanting the submachine gun or semiautomatic rifle, they pick squad leader and play out the entire round without issuing a single order, spawning a single teammate, or throwing a single smoke grenade. Because of play like this, four or five squad leaders are simply NOT necessary. Four machine guns are debatable.

In the case of the Engineer, even if he wants to assist the team, he is still forced to use an SMG even on absurdly open maps like Fallen Fighters. In cases like those, he might willingly pick a bolt-action rifle. That's more of a gameplay issue.

Finally, the advantage of slightly reducing the number of semi-autos, MGs, and SMGs is that you get a more realistic set of equipment for each team. That may matter to some people more than others, but it's quite indisputable that the main shoulder arm of the Soviet Red Army wasn't the SVT-40, and that the primary assault weapon of the Werhmacht wasn't the MG34.

The Main Weapon of both sides is still the Bolt Rifle its the single most avaible Weapon for both sides. People choose not to use them when possible which is understanable on Maps like Apartments.

If Auto Weapons get more limits people will stop to picking up Weapons from the Ground whenever possible, this will lead to even more Auto Weapons in the game once this practice sees widespread use. That way people spread the Sniper Weapons around in Ostfront.

Besides, if you love using SMGs, why complain about there being more bolts around? It means that when you do get your SMG, your relative power has increased as a whole. It also means that getting an SMG or semi-auto becomes something a little more special--you feel more obligated to use it well in support of the team, since you are more unique and combat effective than the bolt-action riflemen in your platoon.:IS2:

Teamplay, realism, and less Rambo-ing behind enemy lines. Sound good?

Teamplay, realism and less Rambo-ing come from the Players not from the Loadout Selection. All of the better Players can rambo with a Bolt in a similar manner to the Auto Weapons. Yes they'll get stopped eventually but it just requires more forethought and good aim.


And as someone else has statted lots of auto Weapons will make you want to seek cover since its easier to get gunned down while in the open.

 

[SGT Steiner]

weapons and such

weapons and such

SMG,s allocated to the over all commander slot rest bolt action and 1 or 2 lmgs and a couple snipers semi auto or bolts, for the size of maps theres to many smgs if your a bolt action user which 99.9% of the time i can only select its pointless trying to rush into a room as you die in a hail of ppsh bullets lol. early war there was very few smgs and even less semi autos these were reserved for the spatznaz or kommando. also would like to see the weapon upgrades option if you like i have no quarel with the bayonet this is very useful in cqb and the russians had theres fixed permanently as they were expected to charge as not enough ammo was available . ive seen a few mention how can you supply mg34 and lmg with more ammo... this is because in the german army the squad was based around the mg34/42 and these guns used up alot of bullets very fast trying to stop the mass russian charges so the men became ammo carriers really..... ps i would like to see the MG42 and maybe different uniform troop types eg falshirmjager or german in winter camo uniforms and splinter camo smocks SS or werhmacht.... just a thought???

 

[r5cya]

Why not head over to this thread about class loadouts, and have a vote:

[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=71201[/URL]

done. good luck with your suggestion!

 

[r5cya]

Well you are certainly not mature enough for this type of gameplay or understanding the OP and your language proofs this. Enough said, I just wanted to tell you that your attitude is not appreciated here on these forums and I did.

i gave you a neg before reading your entire post. i apologize for that no way ti take it back now. i'm afraid.

 

[Nikita]

Yeah and still in Ostfront people did prefer the SMGs on close quarter Maps, which currently almost all HoS Maps fit into cause of the realistic FoV Change (aka Zoom)..

I didn't say anywhere that people preferred bolts over SMGs back in Ostfront--if anything I meant the opposite. Bolting your rifle from the hip in close quarters was agonizingly slow--that made engaging in close quarters incredibly risky.

Same problem we had in Ostfront, can only be "solved" by giving the Special
Classes Bolt + Pistol only. Not a good solution imho

.

Um, I don't know if you noticed or not, but in Ostfront, machine gunners couldn't run around tearing everyone apart indoors from the hip. In Ostfront, picking squad leader and camping around instead of leading meant you got votekicked. Sure, Engineers may have been more than incompetent at times (how many times did they have to blow the back door on Stalingrad Kessel for God's sake?), I'll give you that.

My general point is, removing one or two of the excess Squad Leader slots will put more pressure on squad leaders to behave like they should, as well as preventing people from picking those roles just to play as Elite Rifleman or Assault. They're not using those roles in the way they should be used, so the roles should be re-defined to change player behavior.

Well if you ever want to use a Nagant Revolver with Silencer or the C96 with Stock etc. you have to use them cause they got rediculous Kill point requirements (considering most of the unlock system is rediculous this is fitting right in).

Sure. But if you're a Sniper or Squad Leader on Fallen Fighters infiltrating enemy lines because you want to level up your C96, then you're playing the role wrong. (more of a problem on realism servers where only specialized classes carry pistols)

The Main Weapon of both sides is still the Bolt Rifle its the single most avaible Weapon for both sides. People choose not to use them when possible which is understandable on Maps like Apartments.

That's exactly my point! People don't want to use a bolt-action, so as soon as the assault roles fill they take machine-gunner or squad leader. Without those roles being played like they're supposed to be, the team is put at a disadvantage.

If Auto Weapons get more limits people will stop to picking up Weapons from the Ground whenever possible, this will lead to even more Auto Weapons in the game once this practice sees widespread use. That way people spread the Sniper Weapons around in Ostfront.

Generally in Red Orchestra, if there's an SMG lying on the ground, it's because someone died right there. If you're going to stop dead in that hallway and scrounge an MP40 from the guy you just killed, you run the risk of getting shot by his friend. If you stop in the middle of an open field to pick up a commander's SMG, you run the risk of getting shot by whoever shot him. I'm fine with people running those risks if they think the benefits outweigh them. But make them work for the better weapon.

Giving them a free squad leader slot gives them all the reward with none of the risk. I think we're better off cutting out those slots.

Teamplay, realism and less Rambo-ing come from the Players not from the Loadout Selection. All of the better Players can rambo with a Bolt in a similar manner to the Auto Weapons. Yes they'll get stopped eventually but it just requires more forethought and good aim.

And as someone else has statted lots of auto Weapons will make you want to seek cover since its easier to get gunned down while in the open

Come on. You try Rambo-ing with a bolt, firing from the hip and bayoneting people. It's possible, but not in "a similar manner to the Auto weapons." Believe me. Come face to face to an SMG enemy and miss the first shot with a bolt-action? You're dead. Miss your first shot with an SMG? Just adjust your aim and fill him with the next five, and bandage to heal the two hits he landed on you.

As for your second point, you think that widespread automatic and semi-automatic weapons make gameplay slower by making people take cover more often? Believe me--semiautomatic-rifle wielding Red Orchestra players are some of the least conservative players. At medium range, it doesn't matter if they're facing three enemy riflemen--you can almost always count on them being tempted enough to edge around that ruined tank and try to take a shot.

Yesterday I shot a German assault trooper in the sewers on Fallen Fighters. Hearing his buddy die amidst a hail of PPSh bullets, what did his pals do? They charged underground right into my iron sights, MP40s blazing at the hip. After dispatching both of them with short bursts, I noticed a notification in the upper right of my screen: Killed Enemy Commander.

More automatic weapons make people MORE confident, not less. Aw, I can beat him to the trigger in hipfire, they think. Oh, I can snap into iron sights before he will, they decide.

Take the screenshot below. A hipfiring MG34 facing an SVT40 at medium range. Both players are just blazing away. Note that the MG34 isn't even bothering to dive prone and use his weapon properly, while the SVT40 is standing fully upright in the face of hundreds of rounds a minute of incoming fire. Give both players a bolt-action, and I guarantee that their first reactions would have been to snap off one well-aimed shot each and, depending on their confidence, retreat or dive prone to continue the engagement.

Hell, bolts are a good thing. They teach you not to take better weapons for granted. You'll learn to actually appreciate landing the Elite Rifleman class. They teach you how to use cover, concealment, and how to engage from a position of superiority. They teach you, in short, to play the game the way it was intended to be played. The bolt-action rifle is the basic starting point. A wise Ostfront player once said, "Master the bolt-action rifle, and you'll never be without a weapon." I'm going to go further. Master the bolt-action rifle, and you will be a force of Death himself with any other weapon.

An Mkb used by a player who knows when to engage, when to retreat, how to use cover, and how to pick a superior position? The thought sends a chill down my spine.

 

[r5cya]

this has run it's course, i think. let's all meet up in stalingrad and see who's weapons own's who!
i'm gonna use my bayo on the first guy i see with an mkb!

 

[hellcat420]

are you guys seriously trying to kill this game off for good? chasing more people away from the game by forcing them to use bolts is stupid. people pick autos for a reason, they are more fun to play with.