Ro2's future rests with you, Tripwire

[bangalores]

As a player returning to Ro2 after a month or so in BF3, I can't stress enough how important these weekly updates are to the community. You have a great game on your hands, it all just depends on how you handle it. Red Orchestra 2 is a much needed breath of fresh air in the FPS genre and there are more than enough players willing to sink their teeth into your vision of the eastern front as long as the proper content/support is provided.

Personally, I have noticed significant performance improves in the patches since release and I commend the Tripwire team on their efforts. I recognize that for many others, the game still suffers from many performance/compatibility issues, however I am holding out hope that these issues are just about cleared up. You have undoubtedly heard this a million times, but after core issue such as lag, hit detection, balance, etc. are addressed the most important factor in this games longevity is the maps and level of realism.

The fact is that you have developed a game which will work better on large, open maps. To be honest, it baffles me as to why you decided smaller maps such as Apartments and Barracks would better suit a realistic, tactical WWII FPS. Before you all start giving me a history lesson, I understand that the battle of Stalingrad was waged in close quarters and that a lot of combat occurred in confined, urban areas. However, I believe that the game-play of Ro2 is truly suited for the type of maps we saw in in ROOST.

Tripwire, you have the opportunity to turn this game around and win over an audience which is simply waiting to be acknowledged.

 

[feldmarschall]

Apartments isn't small - it's a copy of RO-Danzig.

And Danzig (remember the 24/7 servers) was one of the most played maps and was liked by many players. Never anyone complained about the map being too small.

So...something must have gone wrong with the game, not with Apartments/Danzig/"too small maps".


I think it's connected to the faster walking and even faster and endless springting (complete **** + unrealistic) in RO2.

 

[Cyper]

I think I agree with feldmarschall. It isn't really the maps. Even smaller maps in RO ost (even though I didn't really liked danzig) was a completely diffrent experience.

What really is frustating is that there is a lot of minor things in the game that can be changed and increase the experience a lot in terms of realism and really make more people in this community enjoy the game. But the minor things that actually are missing have an enormous impact on the gameplay. The real game is behind a locked door that someone has to open.

 

[MarioBava]

I think it's connected to the faster walking and even faster and endless springting (complete **** + unrealistic) in RO2.

Just a quibble, but sprinting is not endless, not by far. When your stamina bar runs out, you jog, and it's not that fast. Unless you rest and restore your stamina. Maybe you want to debate that resting should take longer to restore stamina. Fair enough. But you can't call sprinting "endless" just because you're still able to use the sprint key to slow jog.

 

[Gudenrath]

Apartments isn't small - it's a copy of RO-Danzig.

And Danzig (remember the 24/7 servers) was one of the most played maps and was liked by many players. Never anyone complained about the map being too small.

So...something must have gone wrong with the game, not with Apartments/Danzig/"too small maps".


I think it's connected to the faster walking and even faster and endless springting (complete **** + unrealistic) in RO2.

Map sizes are relative to the speed of the player, so yes apartments is a small map in RO2. And as has been stated, sprinting is certainly not endless.

But yes it would be interesting to see what bigger maps will do to the gameplay, not that I have anything against many of the current maps (not anything to do with size anyway). There should be room for both large and small maps.

 

[ARMY guy]

Maybe they will come out with a free expansion called RO2:Heroes of *insert ww2 operation here* and come out with larger maps and that more open gameplay. A large release like that would also help attract customers to the game, sort of like the killing floor patch they just released did, adding more guns and stuff.

Either way, i think the game is a great experience, ESPECIALLY for people who have never experienced a tripwire title before, and they can only go up from here.

 

[2Lt.Horvath [6th AB]]

Maybe they will come out with a free expansion called RO2:Heroes of *insert ww2 operation here* and come out with larger maps and that more open gameplay. A large release like that would also help attract customers to the game, sort of like the killing floor patch they just released did, adding more guns and stuff.

Either way, i think the game is a great experience, ESPECIALLY for people who have never experienced a tripwire title before, and they can only go up from here.

RO2- Heroes of RO1?

 

[Tak]

Map sizes are relative to the speed of the player, so yes apartments is a small map in RO2. And as has been stated, sprinting is certainly not endless.

But yes it would be interesting to see what bigger maps will do to the gameplay, not that I have anything against many of the current maps (not anything to do with size anyway). There should be room for both large and small maps.

This. Danzig felt bigger because of the overweight asthmatics we were controlling. RO2's sprint feels more proper in how much you can sprint, but since being completely winded has negligible effect on weapon handling (unless I'm missing it) the map feels too small (since there is no incentive not to sprint as much as possible).

 

[bangalores]

i wish i had a video of me running around last night on grain elevator killing about ten russians from the hip with an mp40. that is what is wrong with this game and its small maps

 

[Nazarov]

Apartments isn't small - it's a copy of RO-Danzig.

And Danzig (remember the 24/7 servers) was one of the most played maps and was liked by many players. Never anyone complained about the map being too small.

So...something must have gone wrong with the game, not with Apartments/Danzig/"too small maps".


I think it's connected to the faster walking and even faster and endless springting (complete **** + unrealistic) in RO2.

I think apartments is a smaller map even though it's a copy of Danzig.
It's either that or increase in running speed/stamina that makes the map feel smaller.

 

[Proud_God]

i wish i had a video of me running around last night on grain elevator killing about ten russians from the hip with an mp40. that is what is wrong with this game and its small maps

I'm betting alot of that was due to:
- lack of footsteps
- no reduction in movement speed when going up stairs

 

[Nazarov]

Just a quibble, but sprinting is not endless, not by far. When your stamina bar runs out, you jog, and it's not that fast. Unless you rest and restore your stamina. Maybe you want to debate that resting should take longer to restore stamina. Fair enough. But you can't call sprinting "endless" just because you're still able to use the sprint key to slow jog.

Jogging speed is still faster than walking speed. When you've been running at maximum speed for a long time, you don't just switch to jogging speed. You would have to just top and walk, like how it is in RO.

 

[Gudenrath]

i wish i had a video of me running around last night on grain elevator killing about ten russians from the hip with an mp40. that is what is wrong with this game and its small maps

Except for the fact that the game could do with some larger maps as well, I don't see what is wrong someone killing a lot of enemies at close quarters with his smg. That's what they are there for.

 

[Gudenrath]

Jogging speed is still faster than walking speed. When you've been running at maximum speed for a long time, you don't just switch to jogging speed. You would have to just top and walk, like how it is in RO.

I don't agree. In RO1 you would often experience running out of stamina while under fire, and so the player just stops and goes into slow mode, like he has already given up. That is rather unrealistic, the player should be able to struggle on for safety.

It would be nice if it had extra negative effect on weapon levelling if you were out of breath, though. I do agree that in general there should be much more effect on weapon leveling even if just sprinting smaller distances.

 

[Don Draper]

The answer is too have running button as joging speed...so increase joging speed slighty and increase how long you can jog for.

Then dont have a run button... but a sprint button. but it lasts only 10 second or something.

tht way it help eliminate the slow walking...by jogging... (keeping the game a better pace) and then having sprint purely for runnig from cover to cover or assaults.

 

[Westernesse]

I don't think the game currently does this, but I'd like to see some map based scaling on stamina. So larger maps give you more and smaller maps give you a bit less.

Alternatively just rework the whole system so that everyone gets significantly more stamina, but sprinting/holding your breath/iron sighting unsupported/hip firing your weapon drain stamina at different rates. So you could sprint for longer, but when your bar runs dry good luck killing someone, because your not gonna. Possible don't let people do the slow sprint when their stamina is empty either or make them stop unable to move and recover a bit. Gameplay possible wouldn't change that much because if you can just about sprint to a spot with the current bar and you now have for example say 3x that bar, you can easily still sprint there and then some and kill someone. However, you can no longer sprint all over the map for 3 minutes constantly killing people. It would add an interesting strategy element too.

 

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

And Danzig (remember the 24/7 servers) was one of the most played maps and was liked by many players. Never anyone complained about the map being too small.

People complained about the map being too small for the number of players servers were allowing on it as well as it being overplayed.

 

[Nikita]

I don't agree. In RO1 you would often experience running out of stamina while under fire, and so the player just stops and goes into slow mode, like he has already given up. That is rather unrealistic, the player should be able to struggle on for safety.

It would be nice if it had extra negative effect on weapon levelling if you were out of breath, though. I do agree that in general there should be much more effect on weapon leveling even if just sprinting smaller distances.

Gudenrath is right--the ability to make it those last few meters across open ground is essential.

In my opinion, what matters isn't map size or engagement distances, but sway, time to iron sights, and the effect of being hit.

--quick snap-to iron sights encourages people to sprint, because they can bring their weapons to bear just as fast, if not faster, than someone moving at a slower pace. It almost feels buggy--the weapon snaps right to your nose. It takes a couple seconds for the front and rear sights to perfectly align, but at close range, that doesn't matter. Whoever snaps to iron sights first wins. Slowing this snap-to iron sights will make players more careful about how they move around indoors--sprinting should, as in reality, penalize them by lengthening the time required to react.


--There are also few wound consequences, because getting hit in the leg while in a dead sprint, or in the chest while taking aim, has no impact whatsoever, run-and-gunners can 'tank' a certain amount of damage. WOUNDS SHOULD HAVE CONSEQUENCES.
The other day, I was playing as a Soviet MGer. In close quarters, I was deployed in an interior window and shot the legs out from under a German. In reality, his shinbones would have been absolutely shattered, reducing him to a crawl, if that. Instead, he ran around the counter and MELEED me to death before slow-dying...
Rifle-caliber bullets also have too little stopping power. MG rounds can impact an enemy running into your building, but they won't even break in their stride. Riflemen can be at a severe disadvantage because with maybe a 25% frequency, their first shot that connects with the enemy's torso will not kill or even faze the assault trooper they're facing at close-medium range. The assault trooper, in iron sights or weapon blazing from the hip, is free to adjust his fire without his aim being knocked off. This is also a problem at long ranges, when a hit on an enemy aiming at you will not prevent him from squeezing off a perfectly aimed shot moments later (This was an issue in Ostfront as well).

And finally, we have the combination of hipfired MGs, the MP40/II, the Mkb, and the PPSh. Is the PPSh a problem? Seeing as I saw the first of the Russian Assault Heroes choosing to spawn with the Mkb last night, I don't know about that (I'll attach a screenshot I took later). The Mkb and the MGs go through any walls indoors, most of the Mkb-farmers now have the bayo which provides them, erroneously, with the same melee range and damage as the bolt-action rifles, including the far longer MN 91/30 (Demo this for yourselves--it's true that all bayonets have the same range). And the MP40/II? I'd feel better if you had to press "6" to switch to the second mag when the first runs dry... but instead, all you have to do is click and the soldier automatically switches to the second mag, giving you a grand total of 9.4 seconds of fully automatic fire.

But hey, I've been far too much of a negative Nancy these past few posts... so I'll end on a positive note. The Maxim 1910 is awesome. It looks great, feels great, shoots gread, sounds great... went into practice servers for thirty minutes yesterday just to mow down bots with the thing.:IS2:

There's definitely potential for RO2... and the future does rest with Tripwire... or the mod community.

 

[Holy.Death]

So...something must have gone wrong with the game, not with Apartments/Danzig/"too small maps".

To add something different than things that has already been covered - right now it is CQC in Stalingrad where zoom ability (not really zoom, but I've to call it somehow and "ability to see things in scale 1:1" sounds a bit stupid) feels out of place. When we'll be able to play on really big maps all running and zooming should stop being a problem. (Of course, there are other things too that should be tweaked and they do affect the game at the moment, like speed of ADS after running or sudden movement allowing to dodge bullets - save for ping problems people experience - but that has nothing to do with maps feeling smaller.)

 

[Mosin]

I don't think there is much TW can do at this point to save it. However, I am hopeful the mod community will make something good out of this. This game has so much potential, some one out there has to know how to make it great.