Regarding Red Orchestra

[Lonestarranger]

Iron Front

Iron Front

A well written post (for a change)

However i really don't think there is so much concern required. Its still early days (very) and i dare say a few teams and map makers are getting to grips with the SDK give it another 2-3 months and i am sure there more mods, patches to address things.

The core gameplay is great sure its not RO1 it was never going to be. Give it time this game will flurish.

Besides many folk are playing BF3 and rightly so its a stunning game and has raised the bar for PC gaming which was desperately needed. When the mods come people will come back. I know lots are waiting for in-country 2.

I think all is well in R02 it will just take more time than people are willing to wait.

I use to think this too. But someone posted the link to the game Iron Front being developed using the Arma 2 engine. The game will be released in the near future and may very well be RO2's greatest competition. I bought Arma 2 and Arma Arrowhead since they are both only 9 bucks now just to see the features of this game. I did not know anything about Arma 2.

I have to say having looked at Arma 2 and having served 20 years in the infantry and an instructor in Ranger school, that Arma 2 is so much more realistic. I will not go into all the details, but RO2 needs to really make some changes soon or they could see many folks who want realism moving on to Iron Front.

I think most folks who served in the military and/or who are students of history, want realism and immersion. And i agree that this is a smaller group than the kids who know little about the real military or history who run and gun and bunny hop on COD and think that it has any connection what so ever with the real world and real military forces.

Again, I want realism and immersion. I got that in RO1. RO2 needs improvement and all of the promised additional content that was advertised to flow immediately following the release of the game. But the ARMA engine by far is the most authentic and realistic engine that i have seen.

So yes, 2-3 months will tell the tale. Either RO2 will become more realistic and improve the command and control features or Iron Front with the Arma 2 engine will be where folks go for realism on the Russian Front.

 

[Razvanss]

Im a RO player from 2007,almoust daily,i was wondering myself why i don't play RO2 like a big fan i am,but now i understand becouse you guys just sed it!IT JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE STALINGRAD DAMMIT!!And long live Darkest Hour mode!!
PS:Now from the trailer i am waiting for the Iron Front!

 

[G_Sajer]

I can't find much fault with what has been said in terms of the game structure. But I continue to be amazed at certain indications of folks attitude toward it. RO2 is an attempt at both simulating WW2 combat in general, and the experience of Stalingrad in particular. It does this rather well. The MKB may have been a mistake, and a few other things need tweaking, but... It reflects its intended goal. One of the things that particularly annoys me is the constant UT2003-like criticizm of "camping"
What do folks imagine Stalingrad was like? Anyone that has cracked a book on Stalingrad knows that "camping" was an essential survival tool during the campaign, and any fool that didn't use concealment to the greates advantage was toast. The poor fool that had to acquire the objective was at a disadvantage in many cases.
RO2 presents the opportunity to experience that environment. Run and gun was for the "poor pig" that had to do it to achieve an objective.

As for the future, our group was discussing it last night. Our bet is still on the long term future. Most of us appreciate the game for the history it does a fair job of emulating. That's enough for us. The modders and players who enjoy this thing every day will do the rest. I spent over 6 hour on RO2 yesterday alone. Don't regret a minute. We had a blast. Development is TWI's to win or lose, but the current product is a keeper for the core community. The rest need to leave the marketing to TWI and go find their favorite game.

 

[Cyper]

While the modders may fix this game and make it to what TWI promised and what it was supposed to be in the first place, I will personally never ever pay for a RO game unless Tripwire Interactive address these issues. It's not the freetime modders responsibility to clean up the mess TWI have dumped. It's their job. If RO is supposed to head in this direction I say the same thing as I said with Codemasters Operation Flashpoint-series: I'd rather see the game die than being abused. I have made the decision to go hard on hard on this. This is the second time I have been fooled. The first time was with Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising which was built on lies and false hope. So I wont buy any upcoming DLCs to this game before It's fixed up - and I will never ever pay more money in order to get the game fixed unless I pay modders and modders only. I will not pay for any mod unless all the income goes directly and only to the modders. By the way, I am fed up with the silence on this board. A lot of complaints, all over, but I haven't seen the Devs make any replies to the most vital complaints.

 

[blkmgc]

Only thing worse than drama , is unfolding drama. I paid 40 bucks for this video game , and spent a few dozen evenings having fun with my friends with it. That's usually less then i spend at the bar for the first round.

If it dies tomorrow, I'm still ahead I figure.

 

[Cyper]

Only thing worse than drama , is unfolding drama. I paid 40 bucks for this video game , and spent a few dozen evenings having fun with my friends with it. That's usually less then i spend at the bar for the first round.

If it dies tomorrow, I'm still ahead I figure.

I wonder how much the gaming industry, and indeed any industry at all, would abuse their customers if everyone was thinking like that. It's unethical business, not neccesary money.

 

[Kleist]

Oh good OF: DR, my greatest bad buy i have ever done...

But it

 

[blkmgc]

I wonder how much the gaming industry, and indeed any industry at all, would abuse their customers if everyone was thinking like that. It's unethical business, not neccesary money.

You live under a rock? There arent much for ethics out there anymore. But that aside , if you look at what you pay for the game itself, compare it to anything else out there for entertainment, and then realize that the 40 bucks isnt that much if you get to use it at all and have fun.

I mean, unless you have some drama to play out, or are like Don Quixote and have to have some windmill to joust. I just wish that those types would leave everyone else out of their public attention whoring as they are the few who feel the need for this. I dont need someone to champion a cause for me.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

You live under a rock? There arent much for ethics out there anymore. But that aside , if you look at what you pay for the game itself, compare it to anything else out there for entertainment, and then realize that the 40 bucks isnt that much if you get to use it at all and have fun.

I mean, unless you have some drama to play out, or are like Don Quixote and have to have some windmill to joust. I just wish that those types would leave everyone else out of their public attention whoring as they are the few who feel the need for this. I dont need someone to champion a cause for me.

Accept mediocrity with open arms, :IS2: does not.

 

[blkmgc]

Accept mediocrity with open arms, :IS2: does not.

Thats your opinion I guess. Your entitled to it. <shrug>

 

[[GF-H] M.Whittman]

It's hard to compare Arma 2 and Ro2... Arma 2 was designed to be a 'simulation' and Ro2 is (or was supposed to be) 'realistic' there is a huge difference between the two. I don't want to see Ro2 be anything like Arma 2... just makes for horrible game play. There are a lot of things that are crap with RO2, but there are good things and potential as well. I feel the same way as most of you, except I remain hopeful. Its been barely 2 months since the offical launch, and I truely hope that they havn't addressed any issues becuase they are just too busy working on the game, rather than deal with our endless rants.

With that said, It does annoy me about the lack of a 'hard-core' realism mode available in the game. They released a patch that basically makes turns off the ranking system if you limit the a class and/or weapon... I mean WTF?! Its obvious the majority of us WANT that in the game, why don't the give it? I am just going under the assumption that we'll get some sort of big update prior to or around christmas.

I do like the idea of leveling up your class and weapon, but the new crap that can be put on it is a little much to me... For instance, i like the small perks like slightly faster reload, and being able to steady your rifle better becuase as time goes on your soldier naturally would get better and become much more efficient with his weapon system, and for those of you that say it should reset after you die becuase that's how it would be like in real life... well that's the difference between a video game and real life, and that's why this game aims for 'realism' and not 'simulation'.

I remain hopeful and optimisic that this game will get better with time. It has such great potential, and I doubt TWI would kill their core fan base by copping out. Only time will tell, however...

 

[wake_up]

So bring us the Stalingrad feeling you has promised us all the time, please.

I dont understand, why when they decided to make the new gameplay
like Cod or BF, they didnt made two game modes.
One with more arcade, and one with more OST like realism.
Whats so hard about adding this two different settings?

Maybe some TWI member will read this thread.

They open this thread, but then they close their eyes and scroll to
the end, cause they dont want to read things they dont like.

 

[Cyper]

You live under a rock? There arent much for ethics out there anymore. But that aside , if you look at what you pay for the game itself, compare it to anything else out there for entertainment, and then realize that the 40 bucks isnt that much if you get to use it at all and have fun.

I mean, unless you have some drama to play out, or are like Don Quixote and have to have some windmill to joust. I just wish that those types would leave everyone else out of their public attention whoring as they are the few who feel the need for this. I dont need someone to champion a cause for me.

Just because there isn't much ethics in the industry doesnt makes it OK to fool people. If I pay for a shirt - no matter what it costs - and if there is something wrong with it, such as a damage, I want the money back.

The thing is, people shouldn't complain about games unless they do anything about it. The reason why COD rip people off is very simple: Their customers accepts it. So it's the customers fault in the end.

If you don't want people to complain you better leave this board right now. Because that's EXACTLY what this board is here for. That's why there is a Ideas & Suggetions subforum. If you can't deal with all that, don't read or reply to the posts here.

 

[blkmgc]

If you don't want people to complain you better leave this board right now. Because that's EXACTLY what this board is here for. That's why there is a Ideas & Suggetions subforum. If you can't deal with all that, don't read or reply to the posts here.

Umm, no. That is not what this board is for. If you look at the forum headers , there are forums for problems (support forums) , Ideas and suggestions , both player and server support , tactices, ect. This particular section is general discussion. If you think about that word "discussion" its conversations about the game itself. What you and many others post here (philosophy , complaints, and dismay) either belong in the suggestion forums , or in the bug forums, or in the support forums.

Not trying to be a back seat mod here , because many of you would probably only get a warning or 2 about this from me, but thats the way I read it. If I'm wrong , maybe someone in the know could set me straight?

 

[Cyper]

Umm, no. That is not what this board is for. If you look at the forum headers , there are forums for problems (support forums) , Ideas and suggestions , both player and server support , tactices, ect. This particular section is general discussion. If you think about that word "discussion" its conversations about the game itself. What you and many others post here (philosophy , complaints, and dismay) either belong in the suggestion forums , or in the bug forums, or in the support forums.

Not trying to be a back seat mod here , because many of you would probably only get a warning or 2 about this from me, but thats the way I read it. If I'm wrong , maybe someone in the know could set me straight?

The forums is here in order to make players discuss the game. Ideas and suggestions is exactly that. Everyone is free to complain about the game. There is nothing to do. It's not like we can start censor and delete posts, and give infractions and banns because people complain. Then, if any mod things this thread fits better into the Ideas & Suggestion thread, they can just move it there.

 

[luciferintears]

Thank you for saying what I was about to say. Before buying another TWI product, I'll think more than twice. Problem is that RO2 won't probabily change in the way we'd like it to change, so unless some modder does the job, to me the game is quite dead.

agreed.

TWI has been moved to my, "ignore until a sale" category of developers; along with crytech and ubisoft.

I'll likely buy from them again in the future, but i will NEVER preorder, buy on release day, or buy at full price.

RO2 will be $9.99 during the steam summer sale, and that is about as much as it's worth.

 

[Homuth]

The thing is, they DID promise a hardcore realism mode, and many options.

Now we realized it was only a strategy to shut us up about how they were prostituting the game, make us promote their crap, and take our money.

All lies. In the end they took the route of appealing to some "abstract huge dormant fanbase of casual CoD players who would suddenly wake up from their slumber and realize that what they wanted to play all their life were realistic WW2 shooters, but they just didn't know that yet".

Ramm Jaeger believes himself a superstar, that will make a game that magically appeals to everyone. They probably removed the options just to force the unlock **** system down our throats, and probably scared that all servers would run realistic settings that would scare away the target audience mentioned above.

What happened to authenticity, to honoring the history, to not using beta as a marketing tool, and to all that stuff?

They may have made their money with RO2... but lost their community, fanbase, the respect, the credibility and the decency. They also made many enemies treating their existing fanbase like crap. Their name is damaged beyond repair, and they deserve it.

+ 1

Could not have put it better!

 

[Razvanss]

+ 1

Could not have put it better!

And still...they give a **** about us and our opinions,the game it's released and major changes are imposible to do now I prezume!

 

[Sensemann]

It is extremely hard to make the game appeal to both of these audiences simply because they're radically diffrent. Games that do this ends up making both the 20% unhappy and aswell as the 80% unhappy which means that the game aims at an audience that doesn't exist. The only way to do this in RO2s case is to first of add a real Hardcore mode which basicly would mean an improved version of RO OST meaning no skillpoints, unlocks, lockdowntimer, and simplified weaponhandling, and less HUD details and a more complex control scheme. On the other side, the arcade mode has to include (of course more or less) all this;

I don't necessarily agree with what you are saying here. I am pretty sure that most of the players that do work on/play the Arma series also possess a BF or COD game. And I am pretty sure that most of them like both eventhough they are completely different from one another.
Guys that love Arma for their in-depth tactic and realism, still can like COD for it's arcade, but quick shooting experience. They just know what the differences are and they appreciate both.
I cannot give any statistics to show that what I am saying is the truth, but having seen the games list of some of my friends, I know that most of the guys that possess Arma also have other arcade fps on their rigs.

Anyway, what the major issue is, you and especially Fedorov put it in the right words, is the wrong way they communicated the game with the community and the buyers.

To give another example: People like vodka and whisky. So a bar advertises an "all you can drink vodka night", for which you invite your friends and prepare. Upon arrival, you pay the entrance fee to see that the "all you can drink vodka night" has changed into an "all you can drink cheap whisky night". While you actually like whiskey, you were mislead and are, right so, angry because it's not what you made the deal for.

For the game right now, I see that the hardcore RO fans are angry because they didn't get what they were promised, the new guys that were the major target of TWI got sth different than they expected and there is only a tiny group of gamers that like the game as it is. Some guys, like myself, do not completely dislike the game, but hope for major changes, sticking with it, because they still have some hope that it will go the right direction again. But, to be honest, I am close to put this game aside and put it under the status RIP. My hope only lays in the mod community, but then again, we were told that the SDK is available very close after release. This timeframe has not been determined, but I get the feeling, it soon becomes too late.

Well, whatever, there is sth else in life than RO...

 

[heath4n]

It's funny to see Realism nuts crying about RO2 being too arcadey when it's actually the opposite that has caused the problems, it moved away from being arcadey to being realistic and realism is quite simply not as much fun because it doesn't take into account what is fun and what isn't fun when deciding whether or not to include a feature.

RO1 was an arcadey shooter that was more realistic than anything else. The reason it was so successful was they accidentally achieved a great balance between realism and gameplay fun.

In RO2, the decided to sacrifice gameplay fun and went down the realism path and the game is simply not as nearly as much fun as RO1. Sure it has some "arcadey things" that RO1 didn't have but when you compare RO1 to RO2, RO2 is far more realistic in almost every way.

The bottom line is that they tried to do to much with too little and then ran out of money and were forced to release it.

It's just stupid to say that the game has failed because its not realistic, it failed because management wasted too many resources on components of the game that were not important and because of this, they were forced to release a game that was 1 year from being finished and have been slaughtered as a result. Nothing more nothing less.