Lack of interpolation really kills games with a small community.

[Crumplecorn]

I'm surprised this is (judging by the reactions in this thread) such a controversial and argued issue.

Is shooting not working in a shooter an issue which should be fixed? Hmm, let's all think real hard about that...

 

[Grobut]

I'm surprised this is (judging by the reactions in this thread) such a controversial and argued issue.

It is for the simple reason that most games have really poorly implimented lag compensation, as in, it's barely limited if at all.

Lag comp works quite well at low to moderate pings, it lets you aim at where you see the enemy and shoot, and the guy will be hit very shortly thereafter, at low pings allmost instantly, at moderate ones he might take a few steps.

But at high pings, lag comp becomes an annoyance to everyone around you, where you can run 50 meters after having been shot and then suddenly drop dead from seemingly nothing.
Just one guy on the server with an atrocious ping can really cause confusion, and massively break immersion.


That's not lag comp's fault though, when used well, with reasonable limits, it can make the game playable at slightly higher pings than without any lag comp, but it should disable when you get above a certain ping, so it's only the player with the horrible ping that gets annoyed by his own bad connection, and not everyone else on the server (yeah there really is no substitute for a good low ping server, if you play with a massive ping, then either you or someone else will have to deal with that, and that's just how it is).

But when applied too liberally, lag comp becomes really annoying, as it basically makes other peoples bad connections your problem.
Sadly, it seems most Dev's do apply it to liberally, probably because they don't want to see reviews about how "this game lagged a whole bunch and i coulden't shoot anything! it was terrible!", so they set the cutoff limit much to high so everyone could basically get kills despite horrible pings.


So bottom line: Used well there is nothing wrong with the system, and it would actually be a good thing, but most people have really bad experiances with it, because it's rarely used well, and so they rage whenever it's even mentioned.

 

[mr.sev]

I'm in HK and there's only one server with a ping <100 - JP-HOHEI-SEN.

 

[zYnthetic]

CSHD does have benefits for high ping players but in practice it has always been at the expense of players with low latency. High latency is at least predictable whereas CSHD causes many more issues than simply leading shots.

 

[WallyAussie]

But at high pings, lag comp becomes an annoyance to everyone around you, where you can run 50 meters after having been shot and then suddenly drop dead from seemingly nothing.
Just one guy on the server with an atrocious ping can really cause confusion, and massively break immersion.

I lol'd so hard. Next time please try a little more embellishment to make your already ridiculous statement even more so.

Being an Australian in an American clan this is a pertinent issue for me. Lag Compensation hardly damages game play, and the "dying around a corner" defence is a total cop-out. Because, regardless of whether it appears you're around a corner or not, the enemy player still shot you when you were in the open.

This was almost a game-breaking issue for me. But I decided to sack-up and support my clan mates. I play with a 250 ping and no anti-lag... It's a pretty interesting experience when you're trying to snapshot around a corner with a KAR98 and there's a PPSh in your face.






Wally

 

[mattlach]

I'm in HK and there's only one server with a ping <100 - JP-HOHEI-SEN.

Is that the ping in the game browser, or the actual in-game ping?

I find that I have tons of servers in the game browser under even a 50ms ping, but once I join them I'm in the 150ms range anyway...

It really puts a damper on what otherwise is a great game.

 

[Piscator]

Yes latency is one my biggest problems as well. I usually have one of the best pings on UK servers but still average at 90-120 ms which is compared to other games or RO1 is just not good.

On the other hand you can see that servers with 32 ppl or 40 can run smooth but all 64 players servers have average pings of 150+ though they show up as maybe 55 ms in the server browser.

So I just wonder is it the hardware of the server, the limitations of broadband, the netcode or all of the above.

Either way this needs improving!!!

 

[mattlach]

Yes latency is one my biggest problems as well. I usually have one of the best pings on UK servers but still average at 90-120 ms which is compared to other games or RO1 is just not good.

Agreed. A ping above ~80ms would be considered completely unplayable in many other games. I don't understand why it is considered acceptable in RO2.

 

[Mekhazzio]

CSHD does have benefits for high ping players but in practice it has always been at the expense of players with low latency.

It's not "at the expense of". In the corner scenario, for example, you're not actually getting hit behind the corner, you're just hearing about it then - the shot was taken while you were in the open and was a perfectly legitimate hit. The only thing lost is the outright advantage you have due to lower latency. I mean, it's understandable to want every advantage you can get, but it's hardly something to feel justifiably entitled to.

 

[WallyAussie]

It's not "at the expense of". In the corner scenario, for example, you're not actually getting hit behind the corner, you're just hearing about it then - the shot was taken while you were in the open and was a perfectly legitimate hit. The only thing lost is the outright advantage you have due to lower latency. I mean, it's understandable to want every advantage you can get, but it's hardly something to feel justifiably entitled to.

+1

Exactly what I said above. You're dead anyway. It just doesn't register until you think you're safe... which, in most cases, is a split second and hardly fretting over.





Wally

 

[DarkHunt3r]

You guys are all really stupid, seriously, this is NOT CoD, the server tracks the flight of the bullet, with simulated ballistics, IT CANNOT USE LAG BALANCING, if it did it would increase the lag for everyone significantly consistently updating the each bullet fired with each client

And if you have high ping tough, I don't see why I should suffer because you have either a crap connection or live in a crap country, and as for the guy living in Oz playing in a US clan, well thats your choice and your issue, I don't want my game nerf because you want to play across oceans you muppet

 

[Spungey]

Ive played a lot of FPS games from UT, CS 1.6 to CoD4 and this.
Nothing has made me rage more than the getting hit around the corner BS in BF3.

 

[letsreplaythewar]

I am also from brazil and i am with you.

Unfortunately, the game wasnt made that way and TWI will not make changes on it now... so, lets deal with this..

 

[letsreplaythewar]

You guys are all really stupid, seriously, this is NOT CoD, the server tracks the flight of the bullet, with simulated ballistics, IT CANNOT USE LAG BALANCING, if it did it would increase the lag for everyone significantly consistently updating the each bullet fired with each client

And if you have high ping tough, I don't see why I should suffer because you have either a crap connection or live in a crap country, and as for the guy living in Oz playing in a US clan, well thats your choice and your issue, I don't want my game nerf because you want to play across oceans you muppet

Hey dude,

Are you sure we do live in a crap country?

Be carefull with your words, be carefull.

 

[Proud_God]

You guys are all really stupid, seriously, this is NOT CoD, the server tracks the flight of the bullet, with simulated ballistics, IT CANNOT USE LAG BALANCING, if it did it would increase the lag for everyone significantly consistently updating the each bullet fired with each client

And if you have high ping tough, I don't see why I should suffer because you have either a crap connection or live in a crap country, and as for the guy living in Oz playing in a US clan, well thats your choice and your issue, I don't want my game nerf because you want to play across oceans you muppet

Haha, awesome, maybe a bit rude, but it sums up my feelings for lag compensations quite nicely.

 

[mattlach]

Haha, awesome, maybe a bit rude, but it sums up my feelings for lag compensations quite nicely.

Except for the fact that adding in lag compensation won't make anyone's game "nerf". All it can do is improve the experience, except for the rare exceptions were someone's latencies are REALLY extreme, in which case we could have HPB autokicks and exclusions in the lag compensation to remediate that.

Even if you have "good local fast servers" the latencies simply are so bad that they make it difficult to enjoy this otherwise amazing game.

My local 64 player realism server has a 18ms ping from console or game browser, but in game, that's suddenly anywhere from 80ms to 250ms (usually about 120-170). That is really really bad, and makes you have to lead enemies and consider the weaknesses of the game engine when playing.

That's pretty awful for a game that is all about realism, immersion and making you feel like you actually are there. Horrid even.

 

[Proud_God]

Except for the fact that adding in lag compensation won't make anyone's game "nerf". All it can do is improve the experience, except for the rare exceptions were someone's latencies are REALLY extreme, in which case we could have HPB autokicks and exclusions in the lag compensation to remediate that.

Even if you have "good local fast servers" the latencies simply are so bad that they make it difficult to enjoy this otherwise amazing game.

My local 64 player realism server has a 18ms ping from console or game browser, but in game, that's suddenly anywhere from 80ms to 250ms (usually about 120-170). That is really really bad, and makes you have to lead enemies and consider the weaknesses of the game engine when playing.

That's pretty awful for a game that is all about realism, immersion and making you feel like you actually are there. Horrid even.

If a server provides 250 pings it means it can't handle the load. No amount of lag compensation hocus pocus is going to fix that. Well, maybe make it worse since lag compensation puts even more strain on the server.

 

[the_Monk]

If a server provides 250 pings it means it can't handle the load. No amount of lag compensation hocus pocus is going to fix that. Well, maybe make it worse since lag compensation puts even more strain on the server.

Agreed. Any server that shows 18ms in the browser and then jumps to 170-250 ingame is not able to handle the load (hardware or connection). PERIOD.

 

[[Mad_Murdock]]

Speaking wih the opinion of one who has never felt the need to delve into the deep dark innards of lag compensation code, lets see if i can break this down.

A very informed person says that in server side functionality, the server is the true game state. It calculates shots, movements, etc. So the client says 'i shot here' and the server does the rest. In client side, the client calculates the bullets and movement. Then updates the server.

So correct me if I am wrong here, but you say that by making the calculations client side, a la CoD, HL2, etc. etc. It will lag up horribly for everyone. So:

We say: the server updating everything is laggy because it has to track everything and update every client.

You say: We cannot use client side lag comp. because it will stress the server so much we all lag.

Now, it would seem to me, that having the client do the calculations and just pitch them to the server will reduce the amount of calculations the server has to do considerably, especially with those calcs involving ballistics. Then maybe we can have decent pings. Mebbe even some lag comp for those playing at mid ping levels. I figure it would be much easier for the server to backtrack 160ms or so in a stream of inputs rather than have to rewind 100ms of automatic fire ballistics calc.

It sounds to me like having client side calc is a win-win both in terms of lag comp and server stress, which seems to be causing the unnatural pings we see ingame.

Yes this means that if you play on a high ping server you will be getting corner shot, but that is the consequence of high ping. Besides, it only happens occasionally, when theres usually not much you can do about getting shot anyways. As opposed to actively defending yourself and not having it work.

That and the reduced ping would leave less high ping servers in the first place for our aussie friends

But of course this might work differently outside of this 'crap country' we all seem to live in and happen to like. In that case i will be patiently awaiting for you to descend from the heavens in a fiery chariot and lead us all to the promised land.

Woooooooooooo wall of text!

 

[mattlach]

If a server provides 250 pings it means it can't handle the load. No amount of lag compensation hocus pocus is going to fix that. Well, maybe make it worse since lag compensation puts even more strain on the server.

Well, if that is indeed the case, then I have yet to play on a server that can handle the load of RO2...

...and I've played on a lot of servers.