Piss-poor teamwork and general player behavior

[Rumpullpus]

Okay, so I played ROOST a bit. I liked it far more than RO2.

First of all, netcode is so much better. I didnt notice a single situation like "uh, but I just placed half of my clip in him and he's still running". At least in here when you're guarding a corner and someone jumps out in front of your aimed weapon, he's most likely dead. Not teleporting and spraying bullets, like in RO2.

Second, oh man, these MGs just mow people down. Its so cool. I dont know if it's due to lower recoil while deployed or something else, but it makes the gameplay much more realistic.

Grenade spam is quite bad on the other hand, seems to me that you can throw nades just too far.

Weapon sway and lack of zoom of any sort makes gunfights much more static, which is very good. One thing I've noticed is that it takes you much longer to transition from moving to aiming down the ironsights, what is excellent too.

Maybe its just an illusion of teamplay because pretty much everything goes around the MGs locking down an area but I like it a lot more. So for now RO2 takes a long break and RO (and Darkest Hour) stays.

PS. One thing that really annoys me is when you move your weapon when prone and it goes to "supported mode" on and off. It tends to screw my aim at times by changing the mouse sensitivity, doesnt seem natural.

got to admit the MGs in RO2 are super inaccurate atlest compaired to RO1. you would think an MG with a stable platform would be highly accurate but nooooo.

when is SDK coming out so we can fix this fubar game?

 

[mattlach]

In Red Orchestra 2? Sometimes I get into servers where other players are asking: "How to mute someone?". When I read something like that I know how non-teamworking such players are and when I have no response or negative response then I either quit or play in silence.

I'm all for teamwork and using voice chat to accomplish it, but sometimes there are people that just need to be muted, as they ruin the experience of the game.

These include:

• People talking about their penis, your mom, or throwing insults back and forth all the time.
• Tech geeks (like myself) forgetting they are playing a game and arguing about computer tech specs.
• Friends using voice chat to catch up (like a phone call) rather than talking to them offline.
• WWII Weapons geeks in heated debates about the advantages and drawbacks of some weapon or another and how this resulted in some strategic victory for one side or another during the battle of X.
• Some strange guy getting irrationally upset about you cooking the barrel on an LMG ranting on and on about "insulting the weapon" etc. etc.

If people keep it on topic, and discuss strategy that's one thing, and I support this. Unfortunately there are people like the above that can't seem to keep it on topic, and ruin the game experience for everyone else. These people ought to not just be muted, but rather kicked off the server all together.

I think that some things could has been done differently, to make teamplay more obvious - like in Left 4 Dead - but even in its current state, potential for teamwork is still there, you'll have find the people who are willing to teamplay and when you do it's a whole lot better game for me.

I agree. The biggest would probably be to remove kills from the scoreboard. People who are not into team play always harp on kill counts. If all you see instead is the overall score, then those who participate in caps, and kill in the capzones or defend the commander, are going to wind up with much higher scores than those who just want to "death match" it, and hopefully they will either learn and follow suit, or get bored and leave.

 

[Luckless]

The correct response to someone typing "OMG! how do I make the annoying VOIP shutup?" is:

"I shut up on the VOIP when you get your backside into the cap zone so we can actually win this game."


Honestly I have yet to see a real problem in the game with teamwork. Teamwork works wonderfully in this game. I've rarely found a game where solid team work is more rewarding than RO2. All it requires is to Join a bloody team!

This doesn't mean dropping in on a random server, expecting some random person you've never seen before to 'have your back'. If you expect that, then you're a blithering idiot. I don't know you, for all I know you're going to run off like an idiot and let me get bayoneted, so why should I care about you, or what you're doing? I'm going to follow the guy's I'm working with, work with them, and you can either join us, or you can run off and die in a hole.

So, want to see teamwork in RO2? Follow these simple steps.
1. Gather a group of contacts.
2. Join a server with members of the group of contacts.
3. Play on the same team with the group of contacts.
4. Apply teamwork with group of contacts.


Congratulations. by following those four simple steps you have Done something about an issue you see, instead of simply whining about it and expecting someone else to magically make it better for you.

Game or not, we're all living in the real world people. In the real world you do things yourself, and don't expect other people to step up and do it for you.


Oh, and can we drop the "Teamwork was better in RO" bit? Most of my memories of playing RO off and on involve me spawning, running toward an APC/Tank, eating dust as said APC or Tank drove off on its own, standing waiting for another vehicle in spawn, getting bored, hoofing it to an objective, and half the time dieing before getting a chance to actually engage an enemy, because I didn't know that slightly darker black pixel was an enemy, and not one of the many slightly lighter black pixels on my screen that represented a bush or something.

 

[hishnik]

Tripwire's attempt at making gameplay with the squad system and spawning on Squad Leader was a good attempt but it just doesn't work. I rarely see people in my actual squad together while playing and the spawing on squad leader (When it works) is just a closer spawn.

Little things like saying "Enemy on the right side" Or telling someone that you're throwing a grenade into a room before you assault sometimes help other people start to get more tactical.

It's sometimes good when me and some guys from 305. all get on Ventrilo and stick together in a game with a big map (Like Red October or Commisars). Normally you get one or two pubbers who stick with our group and help us out, that's always good fun.

I find it that TWI didnt do as terrible job with SL as everyone claims they have done. Once we understood how it works, when playing with group of our friends, we rarely have problems spawning on our SL.

Contrary to the general belief, you cant just pop out on SL's position if your location is visible. Folks keep blaming TWI, and i think they should blame themselves and their SL's

 

[SolitarioSoldat]

Lemming rush is a great way to describe it. Sure the ballistics and environments and damage are realistic, but the behaviour of the soldiers is completely unrealistic. suicide runs till you get behind enemy lines is actually a viable strategy because once you get there you can camp and take out a tonne of guys. This should not be the case. People should really fear death.

If a soldier in WW2 knew that when he died he would appear 50 metres behind in 20 seconds, I can assure you the war would have played out a lot like territory games of RO2.

Long distance from spawn points and/or greatly increased respawning time might help this. Maybe more people will realise this and start playing countdown, but i bet they wont.

At the moment a game of search & destroy in CoD is more slow-paced and tactical than a game of territory in RO2

vCOD and UO yes,that was a great game,slow paced,somewhat realistic,but none the less a GREAT GAME that got millions to get hooked on it in no time,starting from COD2 and up it all went up in smoke,low recoil,fast ADS for every weapon especially ADScope,jump/aim/shoot/BOOM headshot **atch!!!! Ahhhh what a letdown and cant believe they are making Millions and Millions just because of their first game.....

 

[zugumba]

I also play Battlefield BC2 and the squad system there works more than the one in RO2. I don't know why exactly because they are basically the same. In here squads make any difference at all. players just run in different directions when they spawn. I'm new to RO2 and never played RO1 (I was afraid of buying it because of fewer people playing)

I still don't know the maps very well so I'm afraid of giving incorrect or too vague info on the mic but I do hear others and try to go to the caps and follow orders. I wish there is a way to bind specific voice commands from the radial menu to specific keys. I find myself using them a lot.

 

[Squad Leader]

I also play Battlefield BC2 and the squad system there works more than the one in RO2. I don't know why exactly because they are basically the same. In here squads make any difference at all. players just run in different directions when they spawn. I'm new to RO2 and never played RO1 (I was afraid of buying it because of fewer people playing)

I still don't know the maps very well so I'm afraid of giving incorrect or too vague info on the mic but I do hear others and try to go to the caps and follow orders. I wish there is a way to bind specific voice commands from the radial menu to specific keys. I find myself using them a lot.

That's because they don't bother to look at their map or easier yet hit the "t" key that shows the SL. Otherwise, green dots are supposidly your squad mates. People just don't care.

If you play SL don't be shy.

 

[Goten]

vCOD and UO yes,that was a great game,slow paced,somewhat realistic,but none the less a GREAT GAME that got millions to get hooked on it in no time,starting from COD2 and up it all went up in smoke,low recoil,fast ADS for every weapon especially ADScope,jump/aim/shoot/BOOM headshot **atch!!!! Ahhhh what a letdown and cant believe they are making Millions and Millions just because of their first game.....

I feel exactly the same about the series ! CoD - very good, CoD:UO - superb, CoD 2 - downhill (also I remember the uber-realistic feature "the nade indicator").

+ 1 from me

 

[hockeywarrior]

I just played on a server that was basically RO2's equivalent of 4chan. Vagina jokes, brocalling, trolling, hacking, and general douchebaggery ensued ...

Oh and over half the team it seemed turned off smoke in their games so smoke grenades were totally useless, leading to an endless night of spawnraping. So this is what the RO playerbase has become ... nice. Is this your target market, TWI?

 

[Stryker]

Maybe they should reduce points on kills, or make it 0 if not near the objective. They need to overhaul the squad system entirely. I hate to use BF2 as an example but it was easy to understand and join a squad, RO2's system feels clunky and hidden. These are of-course just my opinion.

 

[zugumba]

maybe if there was a chain of command in voice chat. maybe rework the squad interface and show a list the squad members names in a corner of your screen. or give some kind of morale bonus against suppresion the more squad members are near you...

another thing that would help newcomers is to show the letter of the objective when someone is attacking it and that text message warning appears in your screen. something like "Axis are attacking Pavlov's house (D)" It'd be easier for new people to know the maps and know where to go when someone says "theres enemies in the propaganda house" or something like that It'd be easier to link the name and the letter you see when you press T.

 

[DiedTrying]

The community is a ****ing joke. Only about 25% of players know how to play the game.

I go spectate and half of the team is playing with their peckers near the spawn.

My team got bogged down on Station attacking....A....guess what happens? About 10 players on the german side quit. They don't even try.

I was SL for team #1 which means I get the largest squad. I had one player out of what is it, 10 total who actually spawned on me (and I pride myself on being a mobile spawn) and this was after coaxing them to the best of my not so limited knowledge.

Just played Apartments as well, Russians steamroll A and B because Germans won't get into capzones, but the Germans are so preoccupied with camping that they completely forget to cover the approaches to Propaganda house. So when A and B fall, C falls almost immediately. Then guess what happens? Nothing. The Russians start camping the prop house. I had MG set up watching D...they never mounted an attack. I saw a Russian about every 30 seconds.

So basically
1. No desire to play game as intended
2. Quit when facing adversity (imagine competition in a first person shooter! the horror!)
3. No desire to learn from mistakes (constant silly TKs)
4. No communication (not even to apologize)

The community is a shadow of it's former self. And I don't see much potential in the current smacktards who make up 75% of the player population (which isn't very big anyway)

TWI needs to find a way to bring back the Vets and Realism/tacitcal community; otherwise I'll shelf the game. I just can't enjoy it (and the game is finely running smooth)

 

[8SS.Steiner]

The community is a ****ing joke. Only about 25% of players know how to play the game.

I go spectate and half of the team is playing with their peckers near the spawn.

My team got bogged down on Station attacking....A....guess what happens? About 10 players on the german side quit. They don't even try.

I was SL for team #1 which means I get the largest squad. I had one player out of what is it, 10 total who actually spawned on me (and I pride myself on being a mobile spawn) and this was after coaxing them to the best of my not so limited knowledge.

Just played Apartments as well, Russians steamroll A and B because Germans won't get into capzones, but the Germans are so preoccupied with camping that they completely forget to cover the approaches to Propaganda house. So when A and B fall, C falls almost immediately. Then guess what happens? Nothing. The Russians start camping the prop house. I had MG set up watching D...they never mounted an attack. I saw a Russian about every 30 seconds.

So basically
1. No desire to play game as intended
2. Quit when facing adversity (imagine competition in a first person shooter! the horror!)
3. No desire to learn from mistakes (constant silly TKs)
4. No communication (not even to apologize)

The community is a shadow of it's former self. And I don't see much potential in the current smacktards who make up 75% of the player population (which isn't very big anyway)

TWI needs to find a way to bring back the Vets and Realism/tacitcal community; otherwise I'll shelf the game. I just can't enjoy it (and the game is finely running smooth)

It really makes me sad how true this is.

As a unit leader(I use the word unit, replace it with what ever word you figure is best here), I see this as the main issue with unit members, they want to play the game, but will not unless there is enough unit members playing at the same time to make the game enjoyible. With out at least 4 other members the public play devolves into nothing that our guys want to deal with. Most active play (and fun) happens during unit scrims and practices with our guys.

Not sure how long I can even play these scrims/practices/trainings with the number of players/clans/units becoming smaller.

RO vets have totally left this game to die. Or be revived by mods. It's that simple.

Indeed, I've lost a great many people because of this, and even when there is, I'm not even sure they would come back.

 

[hockeywarrior]

The community is a ****ing joke. Only about 25% of players know how to play the game.

I go spectate and half of the team is playing with their peckers near the spawn.

My team got bogged down on Station attacking....A....guess what happens? About 10 players on the german side quit. They don't even try.

I was SL for team #1 which means I get the largest squad. I had one player out of what is it, 10 total who actually spawned on me (and I pride myself on being a mobile spawn) and this was after coaxing them to the best of my not so limited knowledge.

Just played Apartments as well, Russians steamroll A and B because Germans won't get into capzones, but the Germans are so preoccupied with camping that they completely forget to cover the approaches to Propaganda house. So when A and B fall, C falls almost immediately. Then guess what happens? Nothing. The Russians start camping the prop house. I had MG set up watching D...they never mounted an attack. I saw a Russian about every 30 seconds.

So basically
1. No desire to play game as intended
2. Quit when facing adversity (imagine competition in a first person shooter! the horror!)
3. No desire to learn from mistakes (constant silly TKs)
4. No communication (not even to apologize)

The community is a shadow of it's former self. And I don't see much potential in the current smacktards who make up 75% of the player population (which isn't very big anyway)

TWI needs to find a way to bring back the Vets and Realism/tacitcal community; otherwise I'll shelf the game. I just can't enjoy it (and the game is finely running smooth)

RO vets have totally left this game to die. Or be revived by mods. It's that simple.

 

[Jorma]

RO vets have totally left this game to die. Or be revived by mods. It's that simple.

I guess that's how it is. I'm not a "RO vet" but I bought roost about two weeks ago and the difference between players in RO2 and RO1 is HUGE. The only time I play RO2 these days are when I cannot find populated RO1 servers, and even then I can enjoy the game like 10-20 minutes at a time.

 

[Cyper]

The community is a ****ing joke. Only about 25% of players know how to play the game.

I go spectate and half of the team is playing with their peckers near the spawn.

My team got bogged down on Station attacking....A....guess what happens? About 10 players on the german side quit. They don't even try.

I was SL for team #1 which means I get the largest squad. I had one player out of what is it, 10 total who actually spawned on me (and I pride myself on being a mobile spawn) and this was after coaxing them to the best of my not so limited knowledge.

Just played Apartments as well, Russians steamroll A and B because Germans won't get into capzones, but the Germans are so preoccupied with camping that they completely forget to cover the approaches to Propaganda house. So when A and B fall, C falls almost immediately. Then guess what happens? Nothing. The Russians start camping the prop house. I had MG set up watching D...they never mounted an attack. I saw a Russian about every 30 seconds.

So basically
1. No desire to play game as intended
2. Quit when facing adversity (imagine competition in a first person shooter! the horror!)
3. No desire to learn from mistakes (constant silly TKs)
4. No communication (not even to apologize)

The community is a shadow of it's former self. And I don't see much potential in the current smacktards who make up 75% of the player population (which isn't very big anyway)

TWI needs to find a way to bring back the Vets and Realism/tacitcal community; otherwise I'll shelf the game. I just can't enjoy it (and the game is finely running smooth)

I personally think that RO2 tries to appeal to an audience that barely exist. Making a game like RO appeal to the mainstream is dangerous for two reasons. The first reason is simply because TWI risks losing their core fanbase. Second, this wider audience will probably only stick with the game until BF3 and COD is released. It becomes a competition between RO2 and the other games. RO1 didn't have any competition at all simply because there was no other games like it our there. My speculation is that the players will drop further prior to Battlefield 3s and COD's release. If the current issues isn't fixed until that there is a potential risk that the core audience leave the game aswell simply because their reason of playing it is lost. As it is right now, the game accepts that you play it badly, and the game mechanics makes teamwork something that you do not need and it even disrupts any form of teamwork - a good example for this is the lockdowntimer.

People tend to rush to their objective while the riflemen spend their time hiding and avoid getting shot. Because you do get shot a lot in the game. And if you do get killed, it doesn't matter, because you're into the action agian after about 10 seconds. So why not take risks? The weaponhandling itself is not working very well. People can pull out clean shots at you all the time. It doesn't require any learningcurve at all since it got the typical FPS machanic - aim and fire - and that's it. Diffrence here is, that typical FPS have more forgiving gameplay where the bullets aren't lethal which makes the gameplay more fluid and balanced. Mixing simplified weaponhandling with lethal bullets simply makes the game unbalanced. If you die easy, it has to require actual skill to aim and shoot. While RO1 did make the game more tactical and dependent on learning the weaponmechanics - which weren't neccesary very realistic at all - it DID make the game more balanced: If you die easy it must be harder to handle the weapons. In RO2 everyone is PRO shooter at the beginning and it doesn't require any practise in order to handle the weapons efficienty.

If TWI doesn't fix up what the corefans want I doubt the modders will be that willing to keep doing very hard work for the game totally free. Because it isn't the mainstream that will keep this game alive. It's the souls that consist of players from the orginal game.Then we can ask oursel the question: What is left?

 

[Stephen]

Definitely some interesting posts in here. I'm inclined to agree with some of the more depressing points; I know for a fact I'm not a great SL but I still bagged 220~ points on a Sparta server yesterday and was second on the board for three consistent games. On one game I single-handedly flanked the church and took out 6 - 8 Russians with my MP 40 before leading the charge and capping. It's fine, and I really enjoyed the experience and points, but it was like fighting the AI on the campaign. It's been a long time since I've played against humans who are so dull and inefficient.

 

[Oz.]

this wider audience will probably only stick with the game until BF3 and COD is released.

Who cares, they already bought the game. RO2 was released in a good moment, there were no other big FPS shooters out there to be honest.

We see what you did there, TWI.

 

[mattlach]

RO vets have totally left this game to die. Or be revived by mods. It's that simple.

And why is that exactly.

Because they don't like the n00bs, or because of something being wrong with the game. IMHO RO2 is an improvement over the first, and not just graphically. There were many frustrating elements of the interface in the original that RO2 addresses.

In RO2, I feel like I have more control over the movement of my character, where in RO it felt like I was constantly moving through soup.

I think it goes without saying you are going to have more hardcore players in an older game than in a new one. Many people simply refuse to play games that don't have modern graphics, end of story. So you are naturally going to have fewer players in an older game, as only the hardcore base remains. A lot of others will take the sentiment "great game, but man, these obsolete graphics just distract too much from the experience". So what you are left with is a small base of hardcore enthusiasts, and the rest leave.

I feel the problem is twofold.

1.) You have kiddies playing the game who really don't care abut anything. They just want to run and shoot like in COD.

2.) You have some people who are really enthused about this game, and how it works, but they never played the original, and the learning curve is steep. Very steep. I personally played the original but haven't in a long time. I'm on my 35th hour or so (according to steam) of playing RO2, and I feel like I am just starting to get it, to the point where I can be a useful addition to my team. don't just assume that people are nitwits not wanting to play the game right. There is a lot of learning to be done.

I feel two things will improve the RO2 experience.

1.) BF3 will launch and a lot of the annoying kiddies will move on to something better suited to them.

2.) As time passes, there will be more experienced players who have put in their - as many as - 50 hours of learning time to play the game well.

There will always be some beginners, and some annoying kiddies, but with time, I think they will be fewer and fewer.

My only concern is that as the kiddies leave, there won't be enough players left to fill nice 64 player servers, close enough to your home to have decent latencies. When I hop on in the evening these days, there are only about 8000 people in total playing the game. Hopefully when this number is decimated, it will leave enough players who take the game seriously for it still to be fun. Look at what happened to the original RO. It's bee really tough to find a good server for the last year or so at least.

 

[mattlach]

People tend to rush to their objective while the riflemen spend their time hiding and avoid getting shot. Because you do get shot a lot in the game. And if you do get killed, it doesn't matter, because you're into the action agian after about 10 seconds. So why not take risks?

It's funny though, cause I was playing a server a couple of weeks ago in which some ADHD meat head was absolutely livid that he had to wait 10 seconds to respawn. he was all over both the text chat and microphone yelling and complaining. "OMG this wait time is unbearable" "18 F:ing seconds? I F:Ing HATE this game" etc. etc.

I eventually asked him why - if he hates the game so much - he doesn't just leave and open up a spot on the full popular 64 person server for someone who likes it.