Defensive smoke ..your thoughts

[TheRealGunther]

I'm I the only one who thinks defensive smoke in the capzone is a stupid idea? this has bugged me for years playing ro1 and 2.

An example the defensive team sets up inside a capzone with a good line of sight killing enemies as they run towards the zone.Then some SL comes along and tosses smoke all around our cap.Blocking our teams line of sight and pretty much helping the attacking team get a easy run into the zone.This happens far too often and in my opinion 90% of the time hurts the defenders.The times it doesn't is when a flank is being mowed down on the way to a cap and having a smoke screen to be able to get to the zone helps"Not in the zone itself".Unless its absolutely being raked by enemy fire which is rare for most of the attackers is advancing.

Just because a SL has smoke doesn't mean he needs to use them in a defensive capzone situation.In real life smoke is mainly an offensive tool and a way to advance to an objective.While on defense you want a good line of sight to kill the enemy as he approaches.If your in a good spot killing lots of enemy and defending the cap well do you really want smoke dropped at your feet I get this too many times it seems.

Am I the only one who believes in this ? I see it all the time and it really tiks me off lol

 

[Mekhazzio]

Smoking the positions the enemy is advancing from keeps them from getting to use their long-range support. Spartanovka's a good example, if the enemy manages to get set up in housing block 2, you're really limited in which vantage points you can use in the town hall without getting plinked, because there's a huge amount of solid cover out there versus just a handful of obvious windows. Smoke the edge of the housing block and you get a double bonus: not only can you then use the windows more freely, but the enemy has to advance blind out into the open road. Long lines of sight can work both ways.

 

[Nezzer]

It depends. The attackers could set up a base of fire, and smoke could render them useless, so that's +1 for defensive smoke. Of course, if they have higher ground, it's not really effective. It has its uses.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I'm I the only one who thinks defensive smoke is a stupid idea? this has bugged me for years playing ro1 and 2.

An example I set up inside a capzone with a good line of sight killing enemies as the run towards the zone.Then some SL comes along and tosses smoke all around our cap. Blocking our teams line of sight and pretty much helping the attacking team get a easy run into the zone.

The squad leader is usually more concerned with providing cover for the rest of your team in order to get into the cap zone, than he is concerned with you being able to pick a few germans off before they shoot a bullet into your exposed skull and then mop the floor with the rest of your exposed team.

If you don't like the smoke blocking your view and you fear the enemy is using it to advance, then move forward out of the smoke and continue doing what you were doing..... advance the line.

This happens far too often and in my opinion 90% of the time hurts the defenders.The times its doesn't is when a flank is being mowed down on the way to a cap and having a smoke screen to be able to get to the zone helps"Not in the zone itself".Unless its absolutely being raked by enemy fire which is rare.

It's quite common I find..... whenever there is an area where either:

A - The Enemy is covering an area your team needs to cross without being slaughtered.
B - Your Team is trying to cap an objective & hold without having marksmen, riflemen, MG's and others mowing you down from outside of the cap zone.....

Smoke is required.

Just because a SL has smoke doesn't mean he needs to use them in a defensive capzone situation.

Oh, well when you're talking about being a defender and trying to defend a cap zone, yes, it's a bit stupid to toss smoke in your own cap zone...... but when you're trying to cap an objective, using smoke in the cap zone makes sense.

In real life smoke is mainly an offensive tool and a way to advance to an objective.While on defense you want a good line of sight to kill the enemy as he approaches.If your in a good spot killing lots of enemy and defending well do you really want smoke dropped at your feet I get this too many times it seems.

Am I the only one who believes in this ? I see it all the time and it really tiks me off lol

Well now that it's been explained better, I agree with your view, but I have not encountered my defending team tossing smoke in our defended cap zone very often.

The only times I toss smoke into a cap we're trying to defend, is in situations like Apartments as Germans and in the square...... the Russians will take up the destroyed building and hold up in the windows, shooting my team as they try to reach the cap zone and get boots in the zone.... I'll pop smoke just outside of the exists of the spawn buildings so my team has time to get into the cap zone, but they still have plenty of areas to aim and shoot at the enemy without the smoke getting in the way.

 

[TheRealGunther]

It's quite common I find..... whenever there is an area where either:

Your Team is trying to cap an objective & hold without having marksmen, riflemen, MG's and others mowing you down from outside of the cap zone.....

Smoke is required.

Oh, well when you're talking about being a defender and trying to defend a cap zone, yes, it's a bit stupid to toss smoke in your own cap zone...... but when you're trying to cap an objective, using smoke in the cap zone makes sense.

lol I never argued about offensive smoke I edited my OP to make it more clear

My whole post is about defensive smoke in the capzones .I'm the first person to agree its the key to assaulting a well defended position.

Offensive smoke is always a good idea and that's why most of times smoking a defensive cap zone is a bad idea.

 

[Krobar]

Too tired to read, but I have used smoke defensively when enemies enter a building of ours, when they run in confused looking for us in the smoke, hide in corners, under tables, or just along walls and come out and bash, and bayo them when they run by. Draw them in and destroy them. Only weakness to this is if the enemy likes nades.

 

[Justin MacDuro]

Smoking a defensive zone = no LOS for your MG's and snipers ... it can be useful in certain zones ... but smoking corridors or open areas when you have lmgs and snipers covering the zone is going to help the enemie a lot for sure .

 

[gimpy117]

well, I never like to smoke on the zone, I throw it behind where i wanna be, so enemy troops can't use your smoke against you. First of all, they can lob grenades in you cannot see, second, they themselves can run into your own smoke and get close. So, I make sure it blocks lines of sights, but makes them break from smoke to assault your area, and it's a nasty surprise coming out of smoke to see a DP-28 or MG-34 looking at you

 

[Anunzi]

Agreed, putting smoke on a cap your team already owns seems a little retarded to me.

The only time I come close to doing it is on Spartanovka. If Jerry hold the gullies and is hitting church I will often smoke up the north east corner of church. The reason being is that if the Germans get an MG and a couple of decent riflemen amongst the houses across gullies they will murder our respawners trying to get back into church to defend or block the cap.
Other than that I cant think of a good example of using smoke defensively…

 

[The Beast (nl)]

It isn`t only with smoke but also artillery. Capping a zone and the sl
calls artillery on the same zone.

But indeed, very often there has been thrown smoke to help the enemy.

 

[elak]

As mentioned, there are instances where defensive smoke makes sense. Back in the old RO:Ost days the Russians smoked the mortar position on Kaukasus (after the germans capped it). One MG and three rifles positioned at the tower completely destroyed any atempted German push from that spawn. The attackers silhouettes were visible long before they could identify defending shooters making the scene a real turkey shoot.

 

[Gudenrath]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone lay down defensive smoke in RO2. It is difficult enough as it is to get most SLs on the attacking team to lay down smoke.

However in RO1 I do remember some cases where defensive smoke was important. Most notably on Zhitomir1941, when playing allied and the Warehouse objective was the only one left. It was important for the SL to smoke the spawn exit (and sometimes also the road leading to churchyard) otherwise the axis could dominate the area with mg and snipers preventing allies from taking the fastest route into cap zone.

As such I would think there is good reasons for defensive smoke, I just haven't noticed anything particularly crucial on the RO2 maps for this yet, though. Perhaps in Spartanovka, when the allies has the church, it could be viable for the SL to throw smoke in the passages between the houses around spawn, so spawning teamplayers could move to church in more safety without worrying too much about being sniped from the flanks.

I wouldn't recommend laying down defensive smoke on the actual objective though (this case the church), since that would invariably only help the enemy advance, blocking the important view of the gullies and the hills where the axis spawns.

 

[DesiQ]

This is a huge problem in Commissar's House. SLs and Commanders seem to love smoking the little garage in the No Man's Land cap zone in front of the red brick building, and it's bullcrap. It blocks friendly support weapons, it allows Germans to leave the building and engage us in the smoke cloud at close range (where their Mkbs and large capacity MGs outgun us severely), it stops us from seeing any Germans in or around the garage, and it means that we have to advance blind through the smoke and out the other end, where the enemy support weapons in the house are just waiting for us.

SMOKE THE BUILDING ITSELF, PEOPLE. Smoke the front-right and front-left sides; MGs and snipers love hanging out there because they're protected from the front. If you've only got one smoke, put it on the front-right.

Does smoke even cover the third-floor window?

 

[Gudenrath]

This is a huge problem in Commissar's House. SLs and Commanders seem to love smoking the little garage in the No Man's Land cap zone in front of the red brick building, and it's bullcrap. It blocks friendly support weapons, it allows Germans to leave the building and engage us in the smoke cloud at close range (where their Mkbs and large capacity MGs outgun us severely), it stops us from seeing any Germans in or around the garage, and it means that we have to advance blind through the smoke and out the other end, where the enemy support weapons in the house are just waiting for us.

SMOKE THE BUILDING ITSELF, PEOPLE. Smoke the front-right and front-left sides; MGs and snipers love hanging out there because they're protected from the front. If you've only got one smoke, put it on the front-right.

Does smoke even cover the third-floor window?

That is not defensive smoke though. That is just malplaced offensive smoke. That is indeed a problem (although you should count yourself lucky having SLs or even Commanders laying down smoke at all).

 

[Kommando_Nob]

Throwing smoke into a capzone you are defending is a bit silly. Instead throw it out of the capzones so the enemy has to go through the smoke and get mowed down the instance they appear on the other side.

A lot of smoke was used to blind the enemy and force them to relocate or sit there dwidling their thumbs. Throwing smoke on the enemy (capzone) is good. Throwing smoke on your own capzone you are trying to defend is in general not so good.

 

[Terviz]

Hehe, dummy guide to smoke nades, always lob them to the enemy position

 

[DesiQ]

Hehe, dummy guide to smoke nades, always lob them to the enemy position

Someone did write a dummy's guide to smoke, it's over in the Tactics board. The conclusion was basically that you should throw smoke behind the main enemy line to blind their support weapons while still allowing your guys to shoot and kill the front line defenders.

 

[Vesper11]

Lob defensive smoke at friendly machine gunners for a quick death.

 

[Gudenrath]

Someone did write a dummy's guide to smoke, it's over in the Tactics board. The conclusion was basically that you should throw smoke behind the main enemy line to blind their support weapons while still allowing your guys to shoot and kill the front line defenders.

Yea, not really possible in most situations though. Smoke directly on or as close as possible to the enemy first line seems to work in most cases anyway for offensive situations.

 

[wooki]

I really dislike when getting smoke in the area. I would very much prefer if sl's used them as walls instead of blankets. If we're just as blind as the enemy where is the strategic gain?